Civic, Altis or Innova?

ameya · 27th January 2010, 19:00

zeroed in on the Innova. Assuming the rumor about the BS4 legislation (due Apr 2010) is true, we will wait until then for the BS4 spec Innova. I however have a strange feeling that Toyota will stop the Innova altogether and introduce the BS4 spec Avenza instead...........
we wait and see!

Having looked at brands like Toyota, Honda and Skoda, I wouldnt dream of considering a Mahindra Scorpio....

rr_zen · 27th January 2010, 19:36

Good choice. Is there a specific reason why you dont want to go in for the BS3 version as the BS4 version would come with a price hike. Also, by buying a BS3 version, you may get a better deal on the car as dealers would be under pressure to clear the BS3 stock before April.

ameya · 20th February 2010, 18:41

I'm surprised that you take such a short-sighted view!

Firstly, the BS4 spec will be a cleaner, greener vehicle. I am fully aware of the environmental mess that we find ourselves in today. And I would like to do my bit in reducing my carbon footprint to the extent possible.

Secondly, if one is to analyse long term depreciation and resale value, I predict that say 5-7 yrs down the line, a BS4 spec Innova is likely to be more appealing than its BS3 spec variant to a second buyer.

I was in a similar situation 5 years ago when we were offered a fully loaded City Vtec. We however rejected the offer and decided to wait for the New shape Honda City. Looking back, I think it was one of the wisest decisions we made since it was a far better car in every way. It is also fetching us a respectable amount in resale than what the old shape Vtec would have.

Anyways, each to his own!

thedreamcatcher · 23rd February 2010, 23:38

If you are looking for VFM and not bells & whistles, then go for Innova.

But, if you need good features, creature comforts etc, I would say go in for the Altis.

I have not considered the Civic, as it is now a generation old, as compared to the Civic, Laura etc, which have all been upgraded.

I am surprised, why Honda is still not upgrading this car, when it suffers on basic points like very low GC, no steering mounted controls etc

ameya · 25th February 2010, 19:06

Please clarify 'bells and whistles'

The VX spec Innova has dual airbags, ABS, fog lamps, MP3 input and a single CD changer and I think a reversing camera

I'm happy with the above specs and dont think the Altis has any more to offer...(maybe ESP).

Having test driven all the four cars in contention, I found the Altis claustrophobic and its engine very unrefined (quite harsh actually) at higher rpms.

The low ground clearance that I keep coming across seems to be someone's home-made rumor. I did not find any issues with the Civic's ground clearance. The people who come up with such nonsense should first go through the car brochure. You will find a ground clearance figure of 174mm which is exactly what all the other three are (+2mm). This suggests that either the Honda is being singled out unnecessarily or that there is a problem with all four of them!

The Civic maybe a generation old but if you were to assess interiors only, it is still miles ahead of the remaining three!

Akshay1234 · 25th February 2010, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ameya

Please clarify 'bells and whistles'

The VX spec Innova has dual airbags, ABS, fog lamps, MP3 input and a single CD changer and I think a reversing camera

I'm happy with the above specs and dont think the Altis has any more to offer...(maybe ESP).

Having test driven all the four cars in contention, I found the Altis claustrophobic and its engine very unrefined (quite harsh actually) at higher rpms.

The low ground clearance that I keep coming across seems to be someone's home-made rumor. I did not find any issues with the Civic's ground clearance. The people who come up with such nonsense should first go through the car brochure. You will find a ground clearance figure of 174mm which is exactly what all the other three are (+2mm). This suggests that either the Honda is being singled out unnecessarily or that there is a problem with all four of them!

The Civic maybe a generation old but if you were to assess interiors only, it is still miles ahead of the remaining three!

the innova has parking sensors and not a camera. the altis has xenon headlamps, power seats and maybe a few little things over the innova.

the civic had a soft suspension that is why it used to scrape inspite of having good clearance.

Musicmaker23 · 26th February 2010, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ameya

I'm surprised that you take such a short-sighted view!

Firstly, the BS4 spec will be a cleaner, greener vehicle. I am fully aware of the environmental mess that we find ourselves in today. And I would like to do my bit in reducing my carbon footprint to the extent possible.

Very well put. I think as a gas-guzzling generation, we've got to start being a little more mindful of our environment.

I like the way you thought everything through, but, i think you should still have a look at the Cruze diesel automatic! Read this thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...automatic.html. With your kind of driving (nearly across the length of the city), you truly deserve an automatic. Cruze will come feature-rich, its a diesel & its got stunning looks. Its a little early to be thinking about resale value, but, i honestly think good cars fetch better resale value always & with chevy's rebuilding exercise in India, only good things can follow.

Seriously consider the Cruze, its a brilliant alternative to the Civic which is a little dated (not by looks, but by year of entry

)

GTO · 27th February 2010, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ameya

I however have a strange feeling that Toyota will stop the Innova altogether and introduce the BS4 spec Avenza instead

Fat chance of that happening. The Innova is a strong seller, well accepted by the market and with a high level of localisation. It's going to be around for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by akshay1234

the altis has xenon headlamps, power seats and maybe a few little things over the innova

Lots more! Electric drivers seat, driver lumbar support (electric), rake & reach adjustable steering, HID headlights with washers & automatic activation, cruise-control, 6 CD changer, MP3 player port, auto-dimming rear view mirror, steering mounted audio controls (with remote), retractable rear blind, rain-sensing wipers & automatic headlamps.

@ Ameya : Nope, the Altis isn't equipped with ESP.

ameya · 4th March 2010, 18:43

Guys,

Do you know if the top-of-the-line VX spec Innova has a USB/MP3 port?

All I want to do is be able to plug in the ipod to the car's stereo system.

I believe there are two variants these days......systems with the USB port allow the ipod to charge its batteries while playing from it while a 3.5 mm jack does just the playing.....

Question to current owners.......which of the above does the VX come with? If it is just a 3.5 mm jack, any suggestions on how one could charge the ipod on long drives??

Or.....

Could you recommend a sound system that has a USB port to allow ipod charging. I suppose I could opt for it as an accessory/aftermarket fitment.

Thanks!

amoghchaphalkar · 7th March 2010, 13:54

Quote:

Do you know if the top-of-the-line VX spec Innova has a USB/MP3 port?

No. It does not.

Get an ipod charger that you can plug in to the power point (cigarette lighter)

I don't own one but have seen it in accessory shops.

shantanumishra · 19th March 2010, 06:40

After having researched Innova, Altis and Civic, here are my 2 cents,

1. +1 to GTO on the Avenza, There seems to be some good chances of Toyota launching a new MUV this year, when they do it is still unclear, see the below URL for more details about Honda and Toyota product launches
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post1790655

2. Altis does not have Rain Sensing Wipers althouth the Auto Headlamps are quite good and extremely effective, so are its Auto Dimming Rear view, 8 way Electric Driver Seat, Headlamp Washers that are quite functional.

3. Civic really has a much lower GC than Altis, 170~176mm, and I can assure you that these 6 mm make a huge difference,atleast in Delhi/Gurgaon.

4. Civic is a driver oriented car, Altis is all about comforts, space and Features (Oodles of them), Innova is a totally different league over here, Both Civic and Altis are equipped with EBD, almost similar spec tyres, Brakes, etc, so not much to choose on the safety front, probably both are equally safe.The Paddle shifts in Civic are fun to operate and really gives you a feeling of Manual shift. Altis lacks this.

5. Also, one of the features present in Altis and absent in Civic is a full function MID (Multi Information Display), Civic only has a Avg Fuel Consumption Indicator whereas Altis has a multi function MID which shows 6 types of information rather than just Avg Fuel Consumption, this has really helped me in getting some excellent fuel efficiency figures - 14-15 KMPL with AC, but then you need to have a featherlite Right Foot for this, else easily expect 12.

6. One very important drawback in Altis is its Keyless entry, If you lock your car with remote and there are people inside, they cannot open the car and come out unless the car is again unlocked using the remote itself, I mean you cannot unlock the car using the door lock. It will buzz all kinds of sirens and the doors would get automatically locked within seconds and you will simply not be able to open the doors, worst thing, the system cannot be reprogrammed to get rid of this drawback. I know this as I was the one to be locked inside twice by my Dad unknowingly.

. I am not sure about Civic here, but if it is similar to City, then it is good enough.

7. Civic has almost 15-20% less boot space than altis, dont know what the designers were thinking. This was a huge turn-off for me in deciding against Civic.

GTO · 19th March 2010, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by shantanumishra

Civic has almost 15-20% less boot space than altis, dont know what the designers were thinking. This was a huge turn-off for me in deciding against Civic.

So true! One of the first things I noticed (and pointed out in my Civic ownership report) is how shallow the boot is. The actual useable space is comparable to cars a segment lower.

ameya · 20th March 2010, 16:26

Engineers!!! I need your help here.....

Having trouble choosing between the Innova diesel and the recent Innova CNG...

The CNG is like the Prius; just that while the prius is a petrol/electric hybrid, the Innova CNG is a dual fuel with 55 litres of petrol and 12 kg of CNG..

Anyone knows what range one can expect from 12 Kg of CNG??

The other factor is availability of CNG in Pune (we might shift there two years down the line....) Anyone in Pune who is aware of CNG filling stations??

Thanks!

shantanumishra · 20th March 2010, 16:56

IMHO, would suggest you to go for Innova Diesel, even though the CNG might be cheaper to run than a Diesel, albiet, Innova's Petrol engine is not at all fuel efficient (7-8 KMPL), with 12 KG of CNG, I dont see a very high range being provided, even if the 2L engine gives you an average of 15 Km/Kg of gas, you only get a range of 150-160 Km on a CNG tankful,
If you even travel 40 KM to your office, then this means CNG filiing required each alternate day and you might end up running on Petrol more often than on CNG.

In addition the CNG cylinder would eat up whatever low Luggage Space Innova has after the third row is used,

Also, in case you frequently travel outside Mumbai/Pune, you might face problems with CNG filling elsewhere,

Above all, Innova Petrols have a very dismal resale value whereas Diesels fetch excellent value.

amoghchaphalkar · 20th March 2010, 20:37

+1 to what shantanumishra has said

And availability of CNG in Pune is average at best. (I think there are only 3 or 4 CNG filling stations)

Stick to diesel. That is your best bet.

27th January 2010, 19:00	#31
ameya BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 69 Thanked: 4 Times	zeroed in on the Innova. Assuming the rumor about the BS4 legislation (due Apr 2010) is true, we will wait until then for the BS4 spec Innova. I however have a strange feeling that Toyota will stop the Innova altogether and introduce the BS4 spec Avenza instead........... we wait and see! Having looked at brands like Toyota, Honda and Skoda, I wouldnt dream of considering a Mahindra Scorpio....
	() Thanks

27th January 2010, 19:36	#32
rr_zen Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 1,803 Thanked: 401 Times View My Garage	Good choice. Is there a specific reason why you dont want to go in for the BS3 version as the BS4 version would come with a price hike. Also, by buying a BS3 version, you may get a better deal on the car as dealers would be under pressure to clear the BS3 stock before April.
	() Thanks

20th February 2010, 18:41	#33
ameya BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 69 Thanked: 4 Times	I'm surprised that you take such a short-sighted view! Firstly, the BS4 spec will be a cleaner, greener vehicle. I am fully aware of the environmental mess that we find ourselves in today. And I would like to do my bit in reducing my carbon footprint to the extent possible. Secondly, if one is to analyse long term depreciation and resale value, I predict that say 5-7 yrs down the line, a BS4 spec Innova is likely to be more appealing than its BS3 spec variant to a second buyer. I was in a similar situation 5 years ago when we were offered a fully loaded City Vtec. We however rejected the offer and decided to wait for the New shape Honda City. Looking back, I think it was one of the wisest decisions we made since it was a far better car in every way. It is also fetching us a respectable amount in resale than what the old shape Vtec would have. Anyways, each to his own!
	() Thanks

23rd February 2010, 23:38	#34
thedreamcatcher Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dubai Posts: 1,204 Thanked: 66 Times View My Garage	If you are looking for VFM and not bells & whistles, then go for Innova. But, if you need good features, creature comforts etc, I would say go in for the Altis. I have not considered the Civic, as it is now a generation old, as compared to the Civic, Laura etc, which have all been upgraded. I am surprised, why Honda is still not upgrading this car, when it suffers on basic points like very low GC, no steering mounted controls etc
	() Thanks

25th February 2010, 19:06	#35
ameya BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 69 Thanked: 4 Times	Please clarify 'bells and whistles' The VX spec Innova has dual airbags, ABS, fog lamps, MP3 input and a single CD changer and I think a reversing camera I'm happy with the above specs and dont think the Altis has any more to offer...(maybe ESP). Having test driven all the four cars in contention, I found the Altis claustrophobic and its engine very unrefined (quite harsh actually) at higher rpms. The low ground clearance that I keep coming across seems to be someone's home-made rumor. I did not find any issues with the Civic's ground clearance. The people who come up with such nonsense should first go through the car brochure. You will find a ground clearance figure of 174mm which is exactly what all the other three are (+2mm). This suggests that either the Honda is being singled out unnecessarily or that there is a problem with all four of them! The Civic maybe a generation old but if you were to assess interiors only, it is still miles ahead of the remaining three!
	() Thanks

4th March 2010, 18:43	#39
ameya BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 69 Thanked: 4 Times	Guys, Do you know if the top-of-the-line VX spec Innova has a USB/MP3 port? All I want to do is be able to plug in the ipod to the car's stereo system. I believe there are two variants these days......systems with the USB port allow the ipod to charge its batteries while playing from it while a 3.5 mm jack does just the playing..... Question to current owners.......which of the above does the VX come with? If it is just a 3.5 mm jack, any suggestions on how one could charge the ipod on long drives?? Or..... Could you recommend a sound system that has a USB port to allow ipod charging. I suppose I could opt for it as an accessory/aftermarket fitment. Thanks!
	() Thanks

19th March 2010, 06:40	#41
shantanumishra BHPian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: BLR/LKO Posts: 329 Thanked: 151 Times	My 2 Cents After having researched Innova, Altis and Civic, here are my 2 cents, 1. +1 to GTO on the Avenza, There seems to be some good chances of Toyota launching a new MUV this year, when they do it is still unclear, see the below URL for more details about Honda and Toyota product launches http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post1790655 2. Altis does not have Rain Sensing Wipers althouth the Auto Headlamps are quite good and extremely effective, so are its Auto Dimming Rear view, 8 way Electric Driver Seat, Headlamp Washers that are quite functional. 3. Civic really has a much lower GC than Altis, 170~176mm, and I can assure you that these 6 mm make a huge difference,atleast in Delhi/Gurgaon. 4. Civic is a driver oriented car, Altis is all about comforts, space and Features (Oodles of them), Innova is a totally different league over here, Both Civic and Altis are equipped with EBD, almost similar spec tyres, Brakes, etc, so not much to choose on the safety front, probably both are equally safe.The Paddle shifts in Civic are fun to operate and really gives you a feeling of Manual shift. Altis lacks this. 5. Also, one of the features present in Altis and absent in Civic is a full function MID (Multi Information Display), Civic only has a Avg Fuel Consumption Indicator whereas Altis has a multi function MID which shows 6 types of information rather than just Avg Fuel Consumption, this has really helped me in getting some excellent fuel efficiency figures - 14-15 KMPL with AC, but then you need to have a featherlite Right Foot for this, else easily expect 12. 6. One very important drawback in Altis is its Keyless entry, If you lock your car with remote and there are people inside, they cannot open the car and come out unless the car is again unlocked using the remote itself, I mean you cannot unlock the car using the door lock. It will buzz all kinds of sirens and the doors would get automatically locked within seconds and you will simply not be able to open the doors, worst thing, the system cannot be reprogrammed to get rid of this drawback. I know this as I was the one to be locked inside twice by my Dad unknowingly.. I am not sure about Civic here, but if it is similar to City, then it is good enough. 7. Civic has almost 15-20% less boot space than altis, dont know what the designers were thinking. This was a huge turn-off for me in deciding against Civic.
	() Thanks

20th March 2010, 16:26	#43
ameya BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 69 Thanked: 4 Times	Engineers!!! I need your help here..... Having trouble choosing between the Innova diesel and the recent Innova CNG... The CNG is like the Prius; just that while the prius is a petrol/electric hybrid, the Innova CNG is a dual fuel with 55 litres of petrol and 12 kg of CNG.. Anyone knows what range one can expect from 12 Kg of CNG?? The other factor is availability of CNG in Pune (we might shift there two years down the line....) Anyone in Pune who is aware of CNG filling stations?? Thanks!
	() Thanks

20th March 2010, 16:56	#44
shantanumishra BHPian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: BLR/LKO Posts: 329 Thanked: 151 Times	IMHO, would suggest you to go for Innova Diesel, even though the CNG might be cheaper to run than a Diesel, albiet, Innova's Petrol engine is not at all fuel efficient (7-8 KMPL), with 12 KG of CNG, I dont see a very high range being provided, even if the 2L engine gives you an average of 15 Km/Kg of gas, you only get a range of 150-160 Km on a CNG tankful, If you even travel 40 KM to your office, then this means CNG filiing required each alternate day and you might end up running on Petrol more often than on CNG. In addition the CNG cylinder would eat up whatever low Luggage Space Innova has after the third row is used, Also, in case you frequently travel outside Mumbai/Pune, you might face problems with CNG filling elsewhere, Above all, Innova Petrols have a very dismal resale value whereas Diesels fetch excellent value.
	() Thanks

20th March 2010, 20:37	#45
amoghchaphalkar BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 637 Thanked: 703 Times	+1 to what shantanumishra has said And availability of CNG in Pune is average at best. (I think there are only 3 or 4 CNG filling stations) Stick to diesel. That is your best bet.
	() Thanks