[thaithdriver]

Hi Folks,

I am reaching out to you guys for your expert opinions. To get the basics out of the way first, I don't need a car right now. I own a Honda City Petrol that has been serving me well for the past 3 years. I drive about 350-500Kms monthly or about ~5K-6K Kms annually. As another BHPian put it, and I couldn't do more justice, this is more of a mid-life crisis solver. The urge to buy a new toy. I am doing well financially; I have a stable job with regular income and no EMIs and with that comes an itch to get a new horse.

I have decided that I have 30 lakhs to spend on a car (all inclusive). Here are my requirements.

• Needs to be an SUV since I already have a sedan. I live in Delhi NCR (specifically Gurgaon), and you know that Gurgoan is known for its waterlogged and pothole laden roads. Also, I sometimes travel to Himachal (no hardcore offroading requirement) and need decent ground clearance for that
• Great ride quality and driving dynamics. I don't want something like a MG Hector that is known for its floaty ride on highways since I occasionally do smack that tarmac
• Relatively plush interiors? Honestly, the inception of the idea behind buying a new toy is also to look at those sexy interiors
• Needs to be a somewhat efficient fuel guzzler, I don't want to think twice about going on a 500KM long roadtrip
• Something I am able to keep for 4/5 years at least. I take my decisions after deliberation and stick with them. I don't change cars very often
• If pre-owned then a fairly new and reliable pre-owned. I couldn't get a Fortuner that had been driven less than 80k honestly. Every decently maintained Fortuner/ Endeavour I tried was driven more than 70k KMs

Here is where my conundrums begin. My requirements took me to both new as well as pre-owned cars (luxury) aplenty. In terms of choosing cars by fuel type, my priority list looks like this, but I am pliable and open to suggestions.

• Petrol - Open to buying but not 100% sold since low FE and linear output response. Quite a few SUVs struggle overtaking on highways too.
• HEV/BEV - Open to buying but not 100% sold since my running doesn't justify the premium. Though I love the MG ZS EV motor.
• Diesel BS6 - No go but if BHPians tell me this is making sense. I am open to change my mind.
• Diesel BS4 (pre-owned) - Mostly a no go

I did also come across pre-owned listings of entry level VAG cars X1/ GLA that could be had for as low as 20L. I do want to buy a "fairly" new car that is made post 2020 and has less than 40K on the ODO. I am somewhat into the snob value of a badge and would love to get my hands dirty with one. However, I do understand that there are no cheap/ budget German cars, and I will have to ensure upkeep of those cars through FNGs, sometimes at high costs. I do want to preface that I will buy these through a reputed dealer such as Spinny Max that will provide a comprehensive 2-month warranty on the car. So, if there are any upfront niggles or replacements required those can be done directly from VAG dealerships at zero costs to me directly.

In summary, I have a couple of questions and want to understand a few things:

1. Should I buy a pre-owned German SUV or a new car? Given, I am in it for the snob value too and would love to own a badge but at the same time want to balance the cost of ownership tradeoff. I am relatively stable financially but I am not someone who earns >50lakh+ a year
   
2. Perhaps the most important question basis which I will get a lot of clarity. Would the costs of maintaining pre-owned German SUVs through FNGs be significantly higher than say a Toyota Hycross via official dealerships? I have never got any of my cars worked upon outside of official dealerships. Hence, I am quite used to paying 20k for a regular service and sometimes a couple of ten Ks for unanticipated breakdown. What I want to understand is, how much higher will a similar breakdown cost me for a VAG through FNGs? Ideally if I can get my Toyota tail light fixed via Toyota dealership at 20k vs. A BMW X1 tail light fixed via FNG in 25k then it is no problem for me to own a badge.
   Ideally, if we could fill a table like the attached (Screenshot attached), that would be really helpful. I know putting a number to breakdown costs is almost impossible but an avg. number that you've experienced in your ownership could help. I know the 1-1.5% maintenance number that GTO posted but I am not sure about that number's definition. Does it only include breakdown costs? or breakdown + scheduled maintenance? Assuming I sort niggles with Spinny comprehensive warranty, is that number still valid?
   
3. If costs permit, do entry level badge SUVs make sense over higher end Mahindra's or Toyota's? I know that GLAs are cramped on space with beautiful interiors while X1s are ordinary on interiors. A MG Astor's cabin is sexier to look at compared to X1.
   So in short, do entry level VAGs put the current gen domestic SUVs in dust either mechanically, electronically, or otherwise?
   
4. If you had 30 lakhs to spend within my car constraints/ requirements, what car would you buy? give me your top 2/3 so I can take a frequency run and go from there.

[vattyboy]

1. I suggest you, buy the pre-owned German cars directly from a used car channel of the brand. Like Mercedes-Benz Certified, Audi Approved Plus or BMW Certified. You can check their inventory directly on their website.

They give 6 to 12 months warranty on the cars which gives Peace of Mind.

2. Costs will be higher even from FNG's-

The cost of a new headlight or taillight of Merc or BMW is above 1 lakh. So in this case getting this repaired by FNGs will only save you on the labour amount.

Regular services like oil, oil filter, and air filters from FNG will cost around 20k in comparison to 50k from ASS. Other items like brake pads and brake discs can be changed to aftermarket companies and will cost around 60-70k in comparison to 1.10 lac from ASS.

3. Depends upon What you want from a car.

X1 and GLA will offer badge value and excellent driving dynamics which no other car can match but lack size, and interior space.

4. What car I will Buy in 30 lakhs-

I will increase my budget a little bit and look for a pre-owned 2018-19 Mercedes GLC/X3, there are plenty of examples in a 34-36 lakhs bracket.

If I want a new car then I will buy a Hyundai Tucson, It is selling at a 2 lakhs discount currently for MY23 models.

Since you have a Reliable Honda in your garage then I think this time you can get your hands on Pre-owned German Cars.

Pre-owned German cars are a hit or a miss. Check carefully before buying that's why I suggested you Merc Certified or Audi Approved plus, buying a car from them increases the probability of getting a good car.

If you find a good car then you will have a smile on your face every time you drive it and if not then game over.

[thaithdriver]

Thank you for your response.

2. Costs will be higher even from FNG's-

The cost of a new headlight or taillight of Merc or BMW is above 1 lakh. So in this case getting this repaired by FNGs will only save you on the labour amount.

Regular services like oil, oil filter, and air filters from FNG will cost around 20k in comparison to 50k from ASS. Other items like brake pads and brake discs can be changed to aftermarket companies and will cost around 60-70k in comparison to 1.10 lac from ASS.

This gives me a fair bit of idea. I mean I know I'll be saving on labor costs from FNGs vs ASS but I mean the part costs are significantly higher. Brake pads on a new 30L SUV/ MPV for a domestic manufacturer is about 7K a pair which comes out to be a total of 15K excluding labor for brake pads. Compare that to a X1, where you're telling me that the brake pads with costs about 60K which is about 4 times the price.

Similarly for headlights. A Headlight for Innova costs around 25K circa 2022 vis-a-vis >1L for a German counterpart. Hmm. That gives me food for thought.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by thaithdriver

[*] Should I buy a pre-owned German SUV or a new car?

I would definitely advice going against the pre owned German SUV route. Whatever you save, you will easily spend most of it maintaining the barge.

While I noticed you are in for the badge value does a pre owned lexus interest you? A quick google search showed me few examples at around 36L for ES 300 H. It is a sedan, but should be much more less expensive to maintain than it's german counterparts, and the Hybrid engine should save you on the fuel $. You do get equal badge value as well.

Originally Posted by thaithdriver

[*] Perhaps the most important question basis which I will get a lot of clarity. Would the costs of maintaining pre-owned German SUVs through FNGs be significantly higher than say a Toyota Hycross via official dealerships?

Yes, the cost of maintaining German luxo barges would be high even through FNGs. I won't throw numbers around, but it would be roughly around 3-4 times more expensive than a Hycross through official dealerships.

Originally Posted by thaithdriver

[*] If costs permit, do entry level badge SUVs make sense over higher end Mahindra's or Toyota's? I know that GLAs are cramped on space with beautiful interiors while X1s are ordinary on interiors. A MG Astor's cabin is sexier to look at compared to X1.
So in short, do entry level VAGs put the current gen domestic SUVs in dust either mechanically, electronically, or otherwise?

This is entirely upto you. I feel the XUV700 or Scorpio N are superior cars compared to a entry level luxury car. That said, the XUV and Scorpio do suffer from typical Mahindra niggles (it isn't as horrifying as Tata, but still a concern) and the wait times are laughable. Also the new gen XUV is just around the corner, so I would wait till it debuts.

Originally Posted by thaithdriver

[*] If you had 30 lakhs to spend within my car constraints/ requirements, what car would you buy? give me your top 2/3 so I can take a frequency run and go from there. [/list]

My recommendation would be to get a X Line/GT Line Seltos DCT Turbo. It's the fastest car on this side of 50 L rupees, has niggle free nature, loaded with equipment, and should be much cheaper to run and maintain. The ready availability is another cherry (I got mine in 5 days).

This is just me though. I had the budget of upto 35L, and the more cars I drove, the price to value ratio started diminishing, hence with the Seltos.

Second option would be Tucson diesel.

Third in line is the Hycross. While it looks great on the outside, I was disappointed with the interiors.

PS- This is coming from an individual who highly values reliability, fuss free vehicles and ASS.

Hope this helps!

[Chrome6Boy]

Originally Posted by thaithdriver

[*] If you had 30 lakhs to spend within my car constraints/ requirements, what car would you buy? give me your top 2/3 so I can take a frequency run and go from there. [/list]

Since you already have a dependable car with a big boot for highway drives, take a look at new EVs.

While they may not have badges to impress other people, they will simply blow you away in terms of performance, sometimes even matching cars two segments above them.

The BYD Atto 3 and the MG ZS EV are around your price range. If you have access to a 15A plug at home / work this will put a big smile on your face. It is cheap to run, cheap to service and really fun to drive. Both these cars have good tech, decent interiors and powerful motors. Take a test drive and see for yourself.

[FIAT3031]

I can relate to your pain point. I’m in Gurgaon have faced the wrath of rains & patched inner roads of Gurgaon.
I picked a used (sedan) A4 TFSI (2015) & spent a little about ₹1Lakh to bring it to niggle free state (brake disc & pads - that’s a one time investment) + new set of wheels (Turanza) + full service (oils & filters)
& I got it all done at a FNG (very reliable)
Trust me once you experience a German luxury - you’ll love it.
After the A4 I couldn’t really enjoy anything else (Hyundai, Tata or Mahindra)

But since you’re seeking a SUV - I’d say your issues regarding water logged roads / undulations will not be a concern.

Service cost isn’t as high for example my A4 Petrol costs around ₹20k (higher side).

I’m in the same boat as you now, as I am looking to add another car in my garage (Petrol only)
Being in Delhi NCR (Diesel is a big no - depreciation is going down the drain)
I’m also contemplating between a German vs Indian OEM (SUV) with similar thought process of new vs used
P.S: I also have a Honda Jazz in my garage

[Shreyans_Jain]

Pre owned route isn’t the best idea for us Delhi NCR people. Diesel options will be BS4, which means major usability issues in winter. Petrol options will not the E20 compliant, which is its own can of worms. Better to buy new.

You say you are well settled and don’t have liabilities, which is a great position to be in. You can get yourself a nice new ride, or you can instead make some big investments which well and truly set you up for the future. That’s your call.

Since what you are looking for is a toy, an NCR compatible toy, may I suggest you consider the Jimny. Nothing quite like getting bitten by the 4x4 bug, and Gurgaon has a thriving off roading scene with active communities and regular events.

[FAIAAA]

Hi, you seek driving dynamics, feature set, relatively low maintenance, good FE.
Based on my past ownership experience of Germans (bought new)
1. There is a big difference in materials, quality of entry level German cars vs their mid and top segment offerings ( compare 3 vs 5 series etc).
2. For 30 lacs and recent model years, you will have to consider entry level german cars. For next segment, you will have to look at 5-6 year old options. 1. Won't suggest buying a pre owned German which is 5-7 years old and out of warranty 2. Even if you do, you need to compromise on feature set. ( my current Verna is plusher / more feature rich than my (then) 2015 E Class and 2017 3 series. The latter especially was a great driving machine but by no means, luxurious)

For 30 lacs, I would suggest you look at
Mahindra - Top end XUV700, Scorpio N
They will meet most of your requirements but will have niggles and petrols won't have great FE ( by the way, most of us spend more on buying /selling our cars than fuel)
If you wish a relatively niggle free experience, then consider the Korean crossover twins ( Creta, Seltos - better FE compared to the Mahindras) or maybe stretch to a petrol Tucson.
As GTO says, 25-35 lacs gets you all the car you need and then some more.

[thaithdriver]

Originally Posted by 07CR

I would definitely advice going against the pre owned German SUV route. Whatever you save, you will easily spend most of it maintaining the barge.

Is that true even for cars that you buy with comprehensive warranty. Say a BMW-certified car?

Originally Posted by 07CR

While I noticed you are in for the badge value does a pre owned lexus interest you?

Honestly, it doesn't meet my criterias. Primarily it isn't an SUV. I do have occasional Himachal trips and I am sort of burnt with my Honda City. I don't want a low GC car.

Originally Posted by 07CR

My recommendation would be to get a X Line/GT Line Seltos DCT Turbo. It's the fastest car on this side of 50 L rupees.

Hmm. I was looking for a something with a bit more road presence. Doesn't the DCT in Seltos suffer from overheating issues? I read it was suffering in high Bengaluru traffic recently.

Originally Posted by 07CR

Third in line is the Hycross. While it looks great on the outside, I was disappointed with the interiors.

Honestly, the Hycross is really making sense in my head. I am thinking about this more.

Originally Posted by Chrome6Boy

Since you already have a dependable car with a big boot for highway drives, take a look at new EVs.

While they may not have badges to impress other people, they will simply blow you away in terms of performance, sometimes even matching cars two segments above them.

The BYD Atto 3 and the MG ZS EV are around your price range. If you have access to a 15A plug at home / work this will put a big smile on your face. It is cheap to run, cheap to service and really fun to drive. Both these cars have good tech, decent interiors and powerful motors. Take a test drive and see for yourself.

Honestly, the only issue I have with EVs is that they offer a lot less car for the price they charge. The performance is definitely exhilarating, specifically for ZS EV but the car is essentially a MG Astor which could be had for a max of 20L. Also, the size of EVs is not that great. On top of that they are low slung due to their heavy batteries. Not sure if that would be fine in a place like Manali, Himachal.

Originally Posted by FIAT3031

I can relate to your pain point. I’m in Gurgaon have faced the wrath of rains & patched inner roads of Gurgaon.
I picked a used (sedan) A4 TFSI (2015) & spent a little about ₹1Lakh to bring it to niggle free state (brake disc & pads - that’s a one time investment) + new set of wheels (Turanza) + full service (oils & filters)
& I got it all done at a FNG (very reliable)

Dude, you're exactly the person I want to talk to and understand things. How have been the maintenance costs since you've bought the vehicle?

Originally Posted by FIAT3031

I’m also contemplating between a German vs Indian OEM (SUV) with similar thought process of new vs used
P.S: I also have a Honda Jazz in my garage

Lol, I own a Honda Jazz too. What are you thinking now? Anything that you may have finalized?

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Pre owned route isn’t the best idea for us Delhi NCR people...Petrol options will not the E20 compliant, which is its own can of worms. Better to buy new.

Dude, what do you mean that the petrol options wouldn't be E20 compliant. Are you talking about how the government is increasing the percentage of Ethanol in fuel to 20% and that since the Ethanol is corrosive in nature, the engines won't be compliant?

But then, what about the Honda City that I own or the lakhs of cars currently on road. They won't be compliant and would need to replaced once the percentage hits 20%?

Originally Posted by FAIAAA

2. For 30 lacs and recent model years, you will have to consider entry level german cars. For next segment, you will have to look at 5-6 year old options. 1. Won't suggest buying a pre owned German which is 5-7 years old and out of warranty 2. Even if you do, you need to compromise on feature set. ( my current Verna is plusher / more feature rich than my (then) 2015 E Class and 2017 3 series. The latter especially was a great driving machine but by no means, luxurious)

Thank you for your response, I am not looking for a 5-7 year pre-owned German. Too many variables I wouldn't be able to control and you exactly described what I want. Don't want really old interiors with amazing dynamics since like most of us, most of my driving is going to be in the city with occasional highway trips. I wouldn't want to be depressed 90% of times looking at hard plastics in the city.

Originally Posted by FAIAAA

If you wish a relatively niggle free experience, then consider the Korean crossover twins ( Creta, Seltos - better FE compared to the Mahindras) or maybe stretch to a petrol Tucson.
As GTO says, 25-35 lacs gets you all the car you need and then some more.

I am definitely going to check out Tucson. Too many BHPians consider that a pretty amazing SUV.

[ike]

Originally Posted by thaithdriver

[*] If you had 30 lakhs to spend within my car constraints/ requirements, what car would you buy? give me your top 2/3 so I can take a frequency run and go from there.

With a 30 lac budget I'd get the Harrier/Safari or an XUV700 (I did get a Harrier in mid 2023). 30 lacs is really good budget and cars in this bracket get all the features that were aspirational/available only in high end luxury cars a few years back.

Unless you are looking for snob value(which I understand you are), there's really no need to go preowned with this budget. It seems to me that you are still trying to define what your use case is for the new car. Think long and hard as to whether you need an old German car that has the potential to be a white elephant unless still under warranty. But again the heart wants what it wants, maybe yours hasn't communicated clearly yet. And perhaps that's why they call it midlife crisis!

[TORQUEINDUCTION]

Originally Posted by thaithdriver

If you had 30 lakhs to spend within my car constraints/ requirements, what car would you buy? [/b]give me your top 2/3 so I can take a frequency run and go from there. [/list]

For that kind of budget, I would get Tucson Diesel. Its a 5 star safety rated product, has more than enough power. I don't think X1 or GLA has that kind of output. Being new car, you will have peace of mind. The only problem for this would be the 10 year rule in NCR.

[abaliga]

• Petrol - Open to buying but not 100% sold since low FE and linear output response. Quite a few SUVs struggle overtaking on highways too.
• HEV/BEV - Open to buying but not 100% sold since my running doesn't justify the premium. Though I love the MG ZS EV motor.
• Diesel BS6 - No go but if BHPians tell me this is making sense. I am open to change my mind.
• Diesel BS4 (pre-owned) - Mostly a no go

It is very difficult to get one car to satisfy all the criteria you have listed

- Driving pleasure can be had mostly in a turbo diesel or turbo petrol, high revving NA petrols are not fun anymore with BS6, Used Camry Hybrid is one that may come close, you can look for a good example
- I would not consider diesel options, especially if one is from NCR
- Turbo petrols are fun but almost all are guzzlers if driven enthusiastically
- BEVs are not yet there in terms of being able to fetch 500 kms range comfortably unless you buy an Ionic 5 or Kia EV6, I would stay away from BYD given that their investment is blocked in India
- Petrol Hybrids are nice, but they are not great in terms of driving feel

Do drive the Honda City Hybrid and XUV7OO, for a new car purchase these are the options I would shortlist, if its a used car, options are aplenty, do chose what you like but ensure it does not have more than 30k kms on the odometer.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by thaithdriver

Dude, what do you mean that the petrol options wouldn't be E20 compliant. Are you talking about how the government is increasing the percentage of Ethanol in fuel to 20% and that since the Ethanol is corrosive in nature, the engines won't be compliant?

But then, what about the Honda City that I own or the lakhs of cars currently on road. They won't be compliant and would need to replaced once the percentage hits 20%?

That’s exactly what I am saying. E12 continues to be available for now in guise of normal petrol, but it is only a matter of time before it is also phased out and 20% mixing becomes the standard. Any car not rated for that is going to have issues with its fuel pump, injectors as well as hoses.

My 2012 Jazz has already been through a fuel pump failure due to ethanol blended petrol. Talk to your Honda service advisor, he will tell you how rampant such issues are. There is a dedicated thread here about injector and fuel pump failures on Hyundai cars. Ethanol blending is the root cause, and all older cars are ultimately screwed. Plain and simple. Companies like VW and Toyota have explicitly stated that they will not honour warranties in instances of damage caused by use of non specified (ethanol blended above allowed level) petrol. All this has been discussed at length in the E20 related threads elsewhere on the forum.

If you want to go down this road, pls do so with your eyes open, cognisant of the risks. E20 rated vehicles came into the market only last year. Anything older, you risk long term maintenance issues. Only BMW petrol cars are an exception, they have been E25 rated for quite some time.

[GoBabyGo]

Hi thaithdriver - I live in Noida and own Honda City VMT 2018 manufactured and I don't own any of the big 3 Germans.

Although I feel the NCR is great place to buy excellent used German SUVs due to slightly higher availability, however, with 30 lacs budget I am not sure you will get a good German SUV which is 2019 or above manufactured. In case you can stretch to around 35 lacs, then I think you can get a very good low mileage German SUV.

With your description I am assuming is that you usage will be very low, probably less than 150-200km per month for the German SUV and 200 to 300km for your Honda City.

I don't know if you will be buying cash down or take car loan of approx. 20 lacs or more. In case of taking loan, then it will be significantly higher than the loan on new car.

If I were you, I would definitely buy it but in different order. I would spend about 30 lacs on German Sedan (2019 or 2020 manufactured BMW 330i or Audi A4) for my fancy usage and sell off my Honda City and buy a low run certified used 2017 or 2018 Hyundai Creta AT (for about 8-9 lacs) for trip to Himanchal, Manali etc. Your 3 years old Honda City can easily fetch you very good resale value (if it is AT then probably more than 10 lacs).

All the best for your purchase, but do go for the German Sedan or SUV.

[TopLiveCentre]

I can hear your heart pounding for that coveted emblem and classic flowing interiors. It always does: when you have the money, for cars and when you have the heart, for girls. The trick is not to give too much of your time to either. So, go ahead, follow your heart and get yourself that mantle but wear it sparingly.

If I were you, I would go in for an E 250, it's a
timeless classic. Plenty of oomph. The key is to use it sparingly. Your wife doesn't wear her silk saree every day, does she?