[CJP]

Hello folks,

Our 14 going on 15 year old Innova Diesel has covered over 2,75,000 KM this year, I bought it in 2009, upgrading from an Accent CRDI and a Mahindra Bolero before that. We've been Diesel fans in the family and would love to continue with a Diesel car into the future as well.

Some background:
I am getting close to retirement age, and perhaps have a couple of years of service left, and would like to replace our 14-15 year old workhorse with something that is a bit more luxurious and can serve as a companion from post-retirement to when I am about 75 years old (isn't that the upper limit for driving in India?) - that's about 17 to 15 years from now.

My wife and I have ambitions of travelling around the country, mostly driving, staying in places which interest us for a few weeks or even months and then moving on to the next destination. We intend to do this hopping for the first few years after my retirement. At least that's the plan, not sure how all of this will work out.

The car (rather companion) we need:
Hence a companion on our travels needs to be built to last, reasonably free of drama or need for roadside assistance - reliable as our Innova has been, simple enough to fix in most states without the need for brain surgeons or rocket scientists. Fairly cheap to run (hence the preference for Diesel), torquey enough and have basic 4x4 capability to drive on relatively bad roads without having to replace our teeth or reset our bones.

We are aiming here for being able to get from point A to point B at relatively decent speeds, safely. Safety is a priority. Something that does not stand out and scream 'look at me' is also another factor.

Good seating, front row for the most part, quiet cabin, sorted suspension and air conditioning. Space to carry a couple of cases and some bits and pieces. And of course full size spare too!

And finally of course the price - under Rs.40L would be great, even at Rs.40L we will be splurging, but our IFA (independent financial advisor) says that is ok and we will not be left in penury after this purchase.

With all these in mind, we (my son and I) built a short list, with some inputs from my wife. And the list looks like this, in no order of preference

1. Jeep Compass
2. Mercedes GLA220D (blew our budget - perhaps used?)
3. Citroen C5 (FWD only - cushy ride though, lack of country-wide support)
4. Hyundai Tucson (not particularly fond of this one)
5. Fortuner (too big, too heavy and we will need to replace our bones/teeth at some point)
6. Audi Q3 / Skoda Kodiaq/Kushaq, VW Tiguan (petrol)
7. BMW X1 (will blow our budget)

What we did not consider
1. Tata Safari / Harrier
2. Mahindra (XUV 7oo or Scorpio)
3. Force 1 Gurkha

Looking for advice based on the massive experience and expertise here and also whether a used/pre-worshipped car from a higher segment would make sense.

Thank you very much for your time. Any and all help on this is much appreciated.

[AYP]

Looking at your preferences and the list of likes/dislikes about the cars in your shortlist, only the Compass stands out. It is a good car and will give you a feeling of luxury. Go for it as long as you are comfortable in foregoing the Toyota hassle free experience. I am not saying that the Jeep will be bad in terms of reliability or service, but only a few brands can match Toyota in these factors. You can also have a look at the Meridian which offers you all that the Compass does along with a size advantage and will 'visually', look like a proper upgrade over the Innova.

If you can stretch your budget, the GLA220D is the one to go for but it is definitely not inconspicuous. My pick would be the GLA followed by the Meridian and then the Compass.

Any reason for not trying the XUV 700? Is it because of the niggles? If yes, then it is quite a fair decision though I have to say that it does provide the best 'kick' among all the diesels in its segment. I would suggest taking a test drive at the very least.

Best of luck!

[CJP]

Originally Posted by AYP

If you can stretch your budget, the GLA220D is the one to go for but it is definitely not inconspicuous. My pick would be the GLA followed by the Meridian and then the Compass.

This is aligned to my thought process as well. GLA220D is also priced out of my budget, unless I go for a used car. Fingers crossed for the moment, expecting more feedback.

With regards to the XUV7oo - am somewhat on the fence here. The niggles and lack of consistency is one worry and this will be our primary car for the next 15 years.

[libranof1987]

Just get the Fortuner; it is not the best choice, but it is an ideal one. Given your intent to travel the country post retirement, the Fortuner will get the job done without a hassle or worry. A close second could be the Compass.

The Q3 / Kodiaq / Tiguan / GLA are all nice options, but for a 10-15 year horizon - I'm not too sure. Also, given the anti-diesel climate prevailing globally and within India, are you sure you want to place a decade long bet on another diesel. You wouldn't want to be stuck not being able to drive into a state/city, say if they (eg. NGT) revise the rule from 10 years to 5 (as they do so randomly in Delhi).

PS: Apart form the Compass and Tucson (and of course, Safari / XUV700), I doubt any of the cars from your shortlist will be <40 lakhs. Or did you mean 40 lakhs + Innova resale.

[Shreyans_Jain]

There is no clear long term future for private cars with diesel engines in urban India anymore. You never know which hare brained policy from Delhi NCR or Chandigarh gets implemented in other Tier 1 cities. Between 10 year age caps, selective targeting of private diesels and rampant DPF issues on modern BS6.2 diesel engines, buying a diesel car today is not going to be anywhere as stress free as what it was when you bought your Innova a decade ago. Then there is the upcoming ethanol blending into diesel fuel, which is another can of worms. Already, you can see all kinds of E10 rated cars having fuel pump issues with E12 petrol. Diesel cars currently on sale cannot handle ethanol at all.

Net net, from a peaceful long term ownership perspective, I will strongly suggest that you reconsider your choice of fuel. Petrol and petrol hybrid is the way to go.

[HTC]

I would suggest maruti vitara hybrid awd. You will save a lot of money upfront which can be used for travel purpose. Gives good milage and maruti service network is good. Give it a thought.

[condor]

@CJP, for all the features and luxury that the cars in the list offer, I will still say - back to Hycross. The Fortuner can be the reliable upgrade there, but like you said - it's too big. The Innova again, top end, and you can do a deja-vu of the audio upgrades if you want to.

Driven well, those Innovas can take you to the Himalayas and back. Just go and check the number of cabs that do duty there. I dont think you are into off-roading, to be looking for a 4x4.

I know it'll be a repeat, but the new one will definitely be better and newer version of the good ol Innova that you have.

I could have suggested the Hilux as a change in body style but with the same muscle and bone underneath, but I dont think you are looking for another Fury to carry in the back to use when you go touring ?

[aseem23]

Originally Posted by CJP

Hello folks,

1. Jeep Compass
2. Mercedes GLA220D (blew our budget - perhaps used?)
3. Citroen C5 (FWD only - cushy ride though, lack of country-wide support)
4. Hyundai Tucson (not particularly fond of this one)
5. Fortuner (too big, too heavy and we will need to replace our bones/teeth at some point)
6. Audi Q3 / Skoda Kodiaq/Kushaq, VW Tiguan (petrol)
7. BMW X1 (will blow our budget)

Looking for advice based on the massive experience and expertise here and also whether a used/pre-worshipped car from a higher segment would make sense.

Thank you very much for your time. Any and all help on this is much appreciated.

I think Tucson will be the best choice for you. I was in the same dilemma two months back and bought top-model Tucson Diesel. So far (driven it just 2500kms), it has been a joy ride for me and my family. Do go out for an extended test drive and make your decision. The engine is super refined, with ample power and all the necessary tech features. Fit and Finish, quality of the material used is top-notch. It is much better in the segment than Jeep Compass and Meridian. Even for me Mercedes, BMW, and Skoda Kodiaq were way over the budget.

You can also check out some user reviews on Team-bhp where people have driven the Diesel Tucson for more than 10k km.

[Ferruccio]

Like minds CJP on post retirement plans, car choices and budgets. I am 6 years from R Day and running a 3 year old Tata Hexa. Here are my thoughts on the choices –

1. To keep costs in check and to have long term spares availability, one needs to choose a vehicle that sells in good numbers. That ensures spares and service availability and as a worst - case scenario there are sufficient number of discarded donor cars that can be cannibalised for parts in the long-term.

2. This also means that one is restricted only to the Top 6 brands in terms of marketshare. Maruti, Hyundai, Tata, Mahindra, Kia and Toyota. The “long tail” brands can simply shut shop and disappear like the Yankees. This also necessarily excludes luxury brands.

3. Also, I am not in favour of luxury brands for myself for another big reason. They tend to attract too much undue attention. As a Senior couple travelling in remote places, I would personally prefer anonymity over being visible in a German luxury SUV. For a few years, I’ve had a succession of VW Passats when they were pretty exclusive in the early VW days. I loved their luxury and the cocoon of total safety but was uncomfortable with the attention that got me. I love my anonymity and being faceless in a crowd. But that is just me.

Also, the general public and authorities are more forgiving and helping to grey haired people in janta cars. I see this distinction over and over again by how I am treated when I am in my Hexa versus when I am in my wife’s Nano.

4. A capable 2WD SUV / MUV fits the bill for me. Having lived for years in Deserts, even going hard-core off-road, very rarely have I had to engage 4WD in capable SUVs (those were the days). As for muck or snow, I do not envisage putting myself or more importantly my vehicle, in so dire a situation that 4WD is needed. (P.S.: I have kittens when my family returns from the beach to my vehicle, insisting that they get rid of all the sand in their footwear and clothes. And consuming food inside the vehicle will lead to summary execution without trial!). No point in dragging along 80 to 120 kgs of 4WD hardware eating vehicle performance and fuel efficiency for a less than 1% chance of usage.

5. So, the easy choice is a well spec’d XUV7OO or Scorpio N 2WD. A Bolero would be ideal for my anonymity obsession, but my left knee is already ruined by years of Tata and Mahindra clutches. So gotta be an Automatic. As an early Scorpio Brand Manager, the new stinger pulls at heart strings TBH. Given the longevity of Mahindra SUVs, I trust that both the XUV or the Scorpio if bought now will easily outlast you or me at least through our driving ages.

3 POSSIBILITIES OR A TRILEMMA

1. I am not convinced that Diesel is entirely the way to go. In a few years Diesels are going to be increasingly rare and finding people that can reliably fix aged Diesel vehicles in remote spots may be an issue. Add to that the headaches posed by DPF and AdBlue. Perhaps I shall go back to driving Petrol.

2. I am increasingly convinced that as we age, we need to pare down possessions. Frequent work related travel has proven to me that I can comfortably manage my life for extended periods of travel with nothing more than a cabin-size strolly and a rucksack. So why a hulking SUV and why not a Suzuki Jimny or even a Hyundai Exter? Cheap, reliable, easy to park and anonymous.

3. Why wait for retirement? Chuck the job, put the house on rent, modify a Tata Winger or Force Traveller into a motorhome and live the Van life today. The kids can fend for their college and weddings themselves – My Pop was actually cash flow positive from my education scholarships and I fully funded my own wedding, so no obligations to the next-gen!

[CJP]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

Just get the Fortuner; it is not the best choice, but it is an ideal one. Given your intent to travel the country post retirement, the Fortuner will get the job done without a hassle or worry. A close second could be the Compass.

The Q3 / Kodiaq / Tiguan / GLA are all nice options, but for a 10-15 year horizon - I'm not too sure. Also, given the anti-diesel climate prevailing globally and within India, are you sure you want to place a decade long bet on another diesel. You wouldn't want to be stuck not being able to drive into a state/city, say if they (eg. NGT) revise the rule from 10 years to 5 (as they do so randomly in Delhi).

PS: Apart form the Compass and Tucson (and of course, Safari / XUV700), I doubt any of the cars from your shortlist will be <40 lakhs. Or did you mean 40 lakhs + Innova resale.

Thanks Libranof1987 - The Fortuner is simply too big for just two of us. And I agree with you on the Germans - none of them are sub 40L. And the less said about NGT the better. And finally, the Innova many not fetch much, it's done about 2.75L KM, real workhorse.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

....

Net net, from a peaceful long term ownership perspective, I will strongly suggest that you reconsider your choice of fuel. Petrol and petrol hybrid is the way to go.

Thank you Shreyans_Jain - agree with your comments here, the more I look at it, the more likely that I will end up choosing a Petrol Hybrid

Originally Posted by HTC

I would suggest maruti vitara hybrid awd. You will save a lot of money upfront which can be used for travel purpose. Gives good milage and maruti service network is good. Give it a thought.

I had not considered anything from the Maruti stables. This is really food for thought. Thank you!

Originally Posted by condor

@CJP, for all the features and luxury that the cars in the list offer, I will still say - back to Hycross. The Fortuner can be the reliable upgrade there, but like you said - it's too big. The Innova again, top end, and you can do a deja-vu of the audio upgrades if you want to.

Driven well, those Innovas can take you to the Himalayas and back. Just go and check the number of cabs that do duty there. I dont think you are into off-roading, to be looking for a 4x4.

I know it'll be a repeat, but the new one will definitely be better and newer version of the good ol Innova that you have.

I could have suggested the Hilux as a change in body style but with the same muscle and bone underneath, but I dont think you are looking for another Fury to carry in the back to use when you go touring ?

Thanks Condor - Yes, like I've mentioned earlier - the Hycross is a potential candidate. No to Hilux, and no Fury to carry either - long past that age now. All the feedback I've received so far point to a Petrol / Petrol Hybrid. I have to relook at my choices - which was the intent of posting here. Thanks once again!

Originally Posted by aseem23

I think Tucson will be the best choice for you....
You can also check out some user reviews on Team-bhp where people have driven the Diesel Tucson for more than 10k km.

Thanks aseem23 - I've listed the Tucson too, feedback from others are pointing to a Petrol / Petrol Hybrid given our silly NGT etc.. I will test drive the Tucson as well, a friend owns a Hyundai dealership - so this could be done easily.

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

Like minds CJP on post retirement plans, car choices and budgets. I am 6 years from R Day and running a 3 year old Tata Hexa. Here are my thoughts on the choices –

1. To keep costs in check and to have long term spares availability, one needs to choose a vehicle that sells in good numbers. That ensures spares and service availability and as a worst - case scenario there are sufficient number of discarded donor cars that can be cannibalised for parts in the long-term.

2. This also means that one is restricted only to the Top 6 brands in terms of marketshare. Maruti, Hyundai, Tata, Mahindra, Kia and Toyota. The “long tail” brands can simply shut shop and disappear like the Yankees. This also necessarily excludes luxury brands.

3. Also, I am not in favour of luxury brands for myself for another big reason. They tend to attract too much undue attention. As a Senior couple travelling in remote places, I would personally prefer anonymity over being visible in a German luxury SUV. For a few years, I’ve had a succession of VW Passats when they were pretty exclusive in the early VW days. I loved their luxury and the cocoon of total safety but was uncomfortable with the attention that got me. I love my anonymity and being faceless in a crowd. But that is just me.
Also, the general public and authorities are more forgiving and helping to grey haired people in janta cars. I see this distinction over and over again by how I am treated when I am in my Hexa versus when I am in my wife’s Nano.

Thanks Ferruccio - you are a kindred spirit! And fully agree with #3 here. Anonymity is important for the same reasons that you've mentioned. Really don't want to attract attention. And you speak my mind here on older folks in janta cars. I totally get the social aspects of this distinction.

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

3 POSSIBILITIES OR A TRILEMMA

1. I am not convinced that Diesel is entirely the way to go. In a few years Diesels are going to be increasingly rare and finding people that can reliably fix aged Diesel vehicles in remote spots may be an issue. Add to that the headaches posed by DPF and AdBlue. Perhaps I shall go back to driving Petrol.

2. I am increasingly convinced that as we age, we need to pare down possessions. Frequent work related travel has proven to me that I can comfortably manage my life for extended periods of travel with nothing more than a cabin-size strolly and a rucksack. So why a hulking SUV and why not a Suzuki Jimny or even a Hyundai Exter? Cheap, reliable, easy to park and anonymous.

3. Why wait for retirement? Chuck the job, put the house on rent, modify a Tata Winger or Force Traveller into a motorhome and live the Van life today. The kids can fend for their college and weddings themselves – My Pop was actually cash flow positive from my education scholarships and I fully funded my own wedding, so no obligations to the next-gen!

Agree with you on #1 and #2.

The Jimny was never on the list. Perhaps something to look at. My list has expanded, but the selection criteria has narrowed - that surely helps.

#3 was also a thought at some point, but shelved it. Wifey and I are not quite the van types, and we did give it some thought. And as for the kids they have been taken care of, at least financially we are free of that responsibility.

Folks, thank you all very much for your comments and feedback. It has helped me understand my selection criteria better and hopefully will make a better decision.

One thought that occurred to me while reading your comments was to pick up a Diesel for the short term (even used perhaps) complete some level of touring and sell/exchange for a petrol hybrid for the longer term. That also means more planning, especially from a financial perspective. This will also require me to be patient and as Condor knows, am not particularly blessed with patience

[Benoit]

There is a strong reason for diesel ban in Delhi. But i don't see a strong reason for it to be applied to other states. A lot of big cars have most of their sales in diesel avatar. Harrier/Safari don't have a petrol yet.

From what i understand from your post, you need long term reliability. This will exclude the luxury brands. After 7-8 years, luxury brands will be no where near low cost ownership.

There are only few hybrids in mainstream cars, and we are already seeing a few issues with that. And they have poor torque when compared with diesels. Hybrids run on petrol on the highway. This will return poor fuel efficiency.

If you want long term reliability, and low maintenance and running costs, you should simply get the Innova Crysta. RWD is adequate for poor roads. It won't feel under-powered. The Innova Crysta will feel both like an upgrade and at home. You are buying it as per the latest emission norms and there's no guilt on pollution.

There are other competitive cars like the Tucson. We have seen posts about poor service support. And they are not as cheap to maintain as an innova.

To summarize, my recommendation is an Innova Crysta.

[bijims]

If you want to stay in the 40 lakh range and get a new car, then my recommendations are the Tucson Diesel AT, Jeep Compass Diesel AT, and the Innova Hycross Hybrid.

The Tucson has all the features you require within your budget but doesn't have the nameplate to go with it but is an excellent car nonetheless.

The Jeep Compass is not as large as the others on the list but is a capable car with a diesel engine and 4x4.

The Innova Hycross Hybrid was given as an option considering your previous car and the Hybrid setup which gives excellent mileage.

If you are willing to splurge over your budget or are planning to get a used car, then the Fortuner or any of the Germans (Q3, X1, and GLA) can be considered, but do note that the luxury Germans will be expensive to maintain, unlike the other non-german cars.

[car_guy1998]

Since you have been using the Innova Diesel for more than a decade, I'd suggest you to get the Hycross ZX Hybrid and it'll be more future proof since you are willing to keep it for more than a decade.

Another choice would be Tucson Diesel AT for its powerful engine and its NVH, comfort but bit concerned about Diesel's future.

[padmrajravi]

I won't suggest a Compass for an elderly couple. Jeeps are not really trouble free and need a bit more attention than Koreans and Japanese. With in that list Tucson 4WD is the best option. But I think the Hycross is the logical upgrade for you. You are used to an Innova. Nothing else will give you the trouble free experience that you had over the last decade. And It can tackle a bit of bad roads too.

A completely different option is to buy two cars - A Honda City AT or a Verna AT and a Jimny AT. The sedan for all the functions where you have to arrive gracefully - Like marriage functions, other friend and family visits etc and the Jimny for touring and camping aspirations.

[2000rpm]

Originally Posted by CJP

Hello folks,

Our 14 going on 15 year old Innova Diesel has covered over 2,75,000 KM this year, I bought it in 2009, upgrading from an Accent CRDI and a Mahindra Bolero before that. We've been Diesel fans in the family and would love to continue with a Diesel car into the future as well.

I know Innova families when I see one.

Only a Innova, can replace an Innova. Dont know why are you keen on the Diesel, test drive the Hybrid and I am sure, you will be blown away!!

Save the trouble of all the test drives, this will be the easiest decision for you!