[fordfreak]

Needed some help in deciding between a Hybrid and an Electric – Toyota Hyryder (V Hybrid) and a MG ZS EV (Exclusive), respectively. Both vehicles are within budget.

The car’s annual running would be in the region of 9,000 – 10,000 KMs, in 100% city traffic conditions, usually with air conditioning being used. Won’t be using this for highway journeys at all, as we already have a diesel automatic in our garage for such occasions.

I am looking for comfortable ride quality (Kolkata roads resemble the Martian surface), decent rear seat space, usable boot, long-term reliability (I will end up keeping the vehicle for at least 8 years) and good fit & finish. As this vehicle will mostly be used by my parents, I won’t be looking to carve corners with it.

I also had a few noob-ish questions about EVs.

• What would be the minimum charge level at which one should recharge, to ensure the long-term battery life degradation is kept to a minimum?

• What happens if an EV is left plugged in to the charger despite battery level being a 100% (like we are advised against charging mobile phones once the battery is full)?

• Driving on flooded streets – Is it safe to treat an EV the same as an ICE vehicle when driving through flooded streets?

Thank you in advance!

(Mods - Please merge / delete thread if wrongly posted. Thank you.)

[Shreyans_Jain]

With your kind of usage, the BYD E6 makes a lot more sense over HyCross as well as ZS EV. The rear bench of the BYD has far more space, and is very supportive. There are no batteries blocking your feet, the seat itself is placed at the perfect height and ease of ingress and egress is just about perfect. Ride quality is excellent, I will say better than even the Toyota (ZS is not even close), as is the visibility outside. The EV drive is very well judged for comfort - rapid yet linear acceleration. Zero noise, zero vibrations and superb insulation. More importantly, the standard 5L km battery warranty is more than 3 times what Toyota and MG are offering. BYD Blade batteries are among the best and most rugged ones out there. E6 is the ideal car for parents to be driven around and occasionally drive.

[cefiljoseph]

Originally Posted by fordfreak

Needed some help in deciding between a Hybrid and an Electric – Toyota Hyryder (V Hybrid) and a MG ZS EV (Exclusive), respectively. Both vehicles are within budget.

The car’s annual running would be in the region of 9,000 – 10,000 KMs, in 100% city traffic conditions, usually with air conditioning being used. Won’t be using this for highway journeys at all, as we already have a diesel automatic in our garage for such occasions.

I am looking for comfortable ride quality (Kolkata roads resemble the Martian surface), decent rear seat space, usable boot, long-term reliability (I will end up keeping the vehicle for at least 8 years) and good fit & finish. As this vehicle will mostly be used by my parents, I won’t be looking to carve corners with it.

I also had a few noob-ish questions about EVs.

• What would be the minimum charge level at which one should recharge, to ensure the long-term battery life degradation is kept to a minimum?

• What happens if an EV is left plugged in to the charger despite battery level being a 100% (like we are advised against charging mobile phones once the battery is full)?

• Driving on flooded streets – Is it safe to treat an EV the same as an ICE vehicle when driving through flooded streets?

Thank you in advance!

(Mods - Please merge / delete thread if wrongly posted. Thank you.)

Hi,

I think it’s not prudent to buy the hybrid version of the Hyryder. The cost difference doesn’t justify unless you use it for a few lakh kilometer but by then the battery would need replacement in hybrid models so that negates the cost.

WRT doubts on the electric cars,
1. It’s ideal to maintain the charge levels between 20 and 80 percentage. Recharge using a regular charger when the battery percentage is at 20 and stop when it’s at 80. This helps in the longevity.

2. EVs are generally quieted with smart management systems that stops charging when full. Shouldn’t be anything if concern.

3. Theoretically an EV is the safest bet when driving through a flooded environment. A comparable ICE vehicle has many failure points which could go wrong. Moreover electric vehicles are designed to be water-resistant particularly to tackle such situations.

[wocanak]

For city usage, there is nothing to beat an EV if you can do A/C charging in your home or office/work parking slot. It is so easy to charge once in a while when you park, you will find it annoying to take any other ICE you own to the fuel station.

As you are considering ZS EV, you can even easily do long distance up to 250 to 300 kms without charging and up to 500 kms with a single ~45 mins charging.

Since you mentioned ride quality, you may want to check the Nexon Max ride quality as some people have mentioned it to be some what better than ZS EV, but I haven't checked it. I bought Nexon Max, because my usage is mostly city and I also have another ICE for long distance.

Once you have an EV you may get tempted to use it for long distance, from that perspective the ZS EV will be better than the Nexon. As it has 20 to 25% more range and also charges faster.

The ZS EV also uses LFP from 2022, so the answers below apply to it (but not to the older ZS EV with NMC battery.)

Originally Posted by fordfreak

• What would be the minimum charge level at which one should recharge, to ensure the long-term battery life degradation is kept to a minimum?

The car itself will indicate, for e.g. in the Nexon the battery indicator will turn yellow below 25%, I usually charge at ~20%. It will turn red below 10%, for LFP batteries it is recommended to let it go bellow 10% once every 4 charge cycles or once a month. It is not recommended to drive too much with battery below 10% or worse below 5% where the car will enter some kind of limp home mode. I have not gone below 9% so far.

Originally Posted by fordfreak

• What happens if an EV is left plugged in to the charger despite battery level being a 100% (like we are advised against charging mobile phones once the battery is full)?

Once 100% is reached the charging stops, the cut offs in the EV are good and pose no problems even if you leave it for a few hours after it reaches 100%. The car app will give multiple notifications reminding you to disconnect. For LFP batteries it is recommended to charge to 100% with A/C charging for cell balancing.

Originally Posted by fordfreak

• Driving on flooded streets – Is it safe to treat an EV the same as an ICE vehicle when driving through flooded streets?

2022 ZS EV has IP69K rating, which is a very high level of protection against dust and water, meant for vehicles and better than other EVs which have IP67, which is good for 1 meter immersion for 30 minutes. But this does not mean you can drive the car in 1 meter water, your car manual will give the limit and it will be similar to equivalent ICE car.

We have to thank the early adopters who have purchased and tested it out over the last 3+ years, we can now peacefully buy as they have not faced major issues.

Originally Posted by cefiljoseph

...
1. It’s ideal to maintain the charge levels between 20 and 80 percentage. Recharge using a regular charger when the battery percentage is at 20 and stop when it’s at 80. This helps in the longevity.
...

The 80% limit I believe is for NMC batteries and does not apply for LFP, where it is recommended to charge to 100%.

[GTO]

The MG ZS EV is perfectly suited to your kind of urban usage. Go for it, enjoy electric propulsion technology and you'll be a convert. Added bonus = the ZS EV is a lot more fun to drive than the boring Hyryder Hybrid.

Take 1 test-drive of the ZS EV and you'll have the answer. It's faster than the Hyryder, has better quality, zero emissions, more refined (no engine sound) and your folks will love it.

Originally Posted by fordfreak

What would be the minimum charge level at which one should recharge, to ensure the long-term battery life degradation is kept to a minimum?

I am not an EV owner or expert, but I believe it's best to cap @ 80% for Lithium-Ion batteries. On the other hand, the LFP battery of the ZS EV can be taken to 100% without worry. The ZS EV is a superbly engineered electric car.

Driving on flooded streets – Is it safe to treat an EV the same as an ICE vehicle when driving through flooded streets?

Related Discussion (How do Electric Cars handle water-logging & floods?)

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

With your kind of usage, the BYD E6 makes a lot more sense over HyCross as well as ZS EV.

I also get confused a lot, but he is talking about the Hyryder, not Hycross .

Originally Posted by cefiljoseph

I think it’s not prudent to buy the hybrid version of the Hyryder. The cost difference doesn’t justify unless you use it for a few lakh kilometer but by then the battery would need replacement in hybrid models so that negates the cost.

Sometimes, it's not just about the cost and ROI. There could be other motivations to buy a hybrid = lesser pollution, feel-good factor from seeing 20 kmpl every day, the eagerness to try out a new technology, image etc.

[BatmanTDK]

As you have mentioned good ride quality in your post also, why not check out something from the Tata Stable.
1. If the rear passengers can deal with some mild discomfort, then the Nexon EV max (discomfort because the battery pack kind of eats into the floor space in the max)
2. Otherwise the Prime variant suits your needs (no discomfort for rear passengers) but the range is a bit less.

[kadanaJ]

Originally Posted by fordfreak

The car’s annual running would be in the region of 9,000 – 10,000 KMs, in 100% city traffic conditions, usually with air conditioning being used. Won’t be using this for highway journeys at all, as we already have a diesel automatic in our garage for such occasions.

Based on the above description of 100% city driving, 10k km a year, and no highway usage; if you can set up the infrastructure for home-charging, without a doubt get the ZS EV. Almost any EV would be perfect for your use case.

[GoBabyGo]

Originally Posted by fordfreak

Needed some help in deciding between a Hybrid and an Electric – Toyota Hyryder (V Hybrid) and a MG ZS EV (Exclusive), respectively. Both vehicles are within budget.

The car’s annual running would be in the region of 9,000 – 10,000 KMs, in 100% city traffic conditions, usually with air conditioning being used. Won’t be using this for highway journeys at all, as we already have a diesel automatic in our garage for such occasions.

I am looking for comfortable ride quality (Kolkata roads resemble the Martian surface), decent rear seat space, usable boot, long-term reliability (I will end up keeping the vehicle for at least 8 years) and good fit & finish. As this vehicle will mostly be used by my parents, I won’t be looking to carve corners with it.

Hello Fordfreak - Although technically MG ZS EV suits your requirement (on paper), but I have voted for Toyota Hyryder. In my view EV in India is still not justifiable for the price they are available. I don't want to say that MG's offering is not good but it is priced too high. Also as of now I am not sure if EVs will be suitable for India in the long run due to infrastructure barrier (we still don't have sufficient CNG stations even in Delhi). I am even anticipating that government may come up with a separate electricity consumption slab for EV home charging (may be a separate electricity meter too). Even though your requirement is strictly for city usage, but you will be using it for relatively short distance drive in a year. If your annual usage is more than 20k to 22k then an EV costing 29 lacs make sense. Also MG ZS EV has no badge value justifying the additional price you pay for it (over petrol MG Astor).

Toyota Hyryder is technically a product which will never get faded in near or longer future. It's interior may not be as sophisticated (say soft touch material) as MG, but it is pleasing to eye. It is as (or little more) spacious than MG ZS EV.

I am attaching a pic comparing expense of both (figures may not be absolute correct), which may be useful to you.

My suggestion, go for Toyota Hyryder.

My best wishes to your purchase.

[shyampsunder]

As others have chimed in LFP batteries are pretty abuse friendly, so nothing to worry about with respect to charging to 100%.

In your case, I think it's pretty much a no-brainer to go with the ZS EV as long as you have a covered car parking and can install at least a 15A socket over there.

Some other points:

1. The driving dynamics are night and day between the Hyryder and the ZS EV. Can easily put a smile on your face every time you accelerate. Since it's 100% city-run, no need to be gentle with the throttle whenever you get a chance. I have been looking forward to airport runs after buying this car.

2. If you are trying to make this work on an Excel, I would suggest looking at the Excite variant, the driving dynamics are the same, misses the sunroof which, to be honest, can be a blessing during a warm day, and some other trivial features.

It's pretty rare to find a car that performs and is the better financial buy. Definitely test-drive both cars before you decide.

[DrZhivago]

Let me get right to the points:

1) If you are driving through bad roads/broken roads then the ZS EV wont be that great but an occasional ride here and there wont be an issue. It gets jumpy otherwise, especially with the Tyre pressure at 42

2) As far as the ZS EV is concerned you dont have to worry about charging it to 100 or keeping it between 80 percent etc because I am told its an LFP type battery and you can take it to 100 without worry. Also, you might be charging via the home socket or the 7kW charger so its going to be like trickle charging so 100 percent wont matter. You can keep charging it to hundred and only fast charging your car to 100 is frowned upon in the EV World.

3) If you keep the ZS EV plugged in even after it hits 100 the charger just stops charging. Thats what I noticed with mine. I have kept mine plugged in for half an hour after reaching 100 percent and the charge lights were off when I had gone to unplug it. Nothing to worry about this.

4) Its never to safe any car in a flooded street be it Petrol, Diesel or an EV. All that said, it might be safer in an EV to wade through than an ICE vehicle because if the ICE vehicle stalls then thats it. Anyways all EVs come with IP certification and all, with the ZS EV having a higher rating than the competition.

Lastly, I feel your running of 10k KM per year will warrant an EV but at the end of the day you should do your own calculations and do quite a few thorough test drives and then zero in. God Speed

[sheelRP]

Driving Kona for last 2 months and now 3500 kms on odo. Would suggest Kona for city use and recent price cuts makes it more than 5 lacs cheaper than zs. For city use, I would recommend it considering it’s build quality, range and Hyundai network. Please do consider.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by fordfreak

What would be the minimum charge level at which one should recharge, to ensure the long-term battery life degradation is kept to a minimum?

There are no hard limits as such, most manufacturers overdesign the products to handle these regular usage. Ideally it is recommended to do 20%-80% if using DC fast chargers and do a full slow AC recharge after 3/4 DC charges(deplete to minimum possible and regular AC slow charge to full.) If you are doing the regular AC charging to home then no concerns.

Originally Posted by fordfreak

What happens if an EV is left plugged in to the charger despite battery level being a 100% (like we are advised against charging mobile phones once the battery is full)?

All cars are designed with an auto cutoff and a quite capable BMS so not a concern. If proper earthing and fault breakers are in place then you leave it plugged in without a concern.

Originally Posted by fordfreak

Driving on flooded streets – Is it safe to treat an EV the same as an ICE vehicle when driving through flooded streets?

Did not hear any issues related to flooding but most of the EV systems are IP rated so water ingress should not happen and if it does happen then it gets covered under manufacturing warranty.

Originally Posted by fordfreak

Needed some help in deciding between a Hybrid and an Electric – Toyota Hyryder (V Hybrid) and a MG ZS EV (Exclusive), respectively. Both vehicles are within budget.

So with your usage it would be Electric almost anytime over the hybrid. You can easily manage with regular home AC charging and may not even require DC Fast charging. Running cost will be far lower than hybrid.
only recommendation would be to check your electrical connection (connected and allowerd load) and house wiring before taking the plunge.

MG ZS EV - great car, rare issues with BMS but good support in cities (although limited service centers if you are in remote area or small towns). this is already a 2nd gen so most of the niggles are ironed out.

Toyota Hyryder - Looks more Maruti than Toyota. Had 2 rounds of recalls (both safety issues - airbag and then seat belts) so might be better to wait for next gen when most issues are ironed out.
At this price either electric or an ICE with better features & interior seems to make a better argument than the Hyryder.


Observation on some other EV's in the same budget:

Nexon MAX - undisputedly value for money amongst all options and a good product, but below average quality checks and a hit or miss service support from vendor makes it a concern. it all boils down to your luck or the strings you can pull if you end up with a lemon.

Hyundai Kona - Overpriced and outdated. lack of choices / variants but a stable product & decent service support. Apparently Hyundai might launch the facelift next month(still 3+ years behind the international launch).

Observation on some other EV's on a slightly higher budget:

BYD E6 - Longest range, highest interior space and a very stable no nonsense product but lackluster interiors (like a taxi which is what its usage was planned for). Concerns: Lack of service centers but literally requires minimal service.

BYD Atto 3 - A very good combination of "Good Range" and "Features". The higher price due to CBU import and lack of service centers is the only concern.

[ferrarirules]

I will say MG ZS EV will be a good choice. You get decent range with good amount of features. If you are not interested is sunroof, their Excite variant has almost all the features.

Now coming to your EV questions

Originally Posted by fordfreak

What would be the minimum charge level at which one should recharge, to ensure the long-term battery life degradation is kept to a minimum?

There are two types of batteries used in cars today - NMC (Nickel, Magnesium, Cobalt) and LFP (Lithium Iron Phospshate). The LFP batteries are used by Tata, MG, BYD (named only higher selling brands). XUV 400 uses NMC battery. NMC battery doesn't like regular 100% charging but same is not true for LFP batteries. For LFP it is recommended to slow charge battery from less than 20% to 100% as this helps in cell balancing and the Battery management system is able to perform better.

Originally Posted by fordfreak

Driving on flooded streets – Is it safe to treat an EV the same as an ICE vehicle when driving through flooded streets?

This is same as how you will treat you ICE vehicle on a flooded. This is what is written in the manual of Nexon -

HIGH-VOLTAGE SYSTEM: CONTACT WITH WATER
The high-voltage system is typically safe even in the following example situations:

1. Water in the foot well, for instance after a rainstorm when sunroof was kept open.
2. Vehicle is in water but only up to 300 mm.
3. Liquid escapes in the trunk.

Originally Posted by fordfreak

What happens if an EV is left plugged in to the charger despite battery level being a 100% (like we are advised against charging mobile phones once the battery is full)?

BMS cuts off the charging once it reaches 100%. This is not like mobile phone which keeps on using the battery. The High voltage battery is completely cut off when car is switched off. Any functions like remote functions etc only work on the aux battery.

[komalthecoolk]

As an EV newbie, I am curious to know why no one is mentioned XUV400? Reviews seem to show it as mostly well balanced EV.

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by komalthecoolk

As an EV newbie, I am curious to know why no one is mentioned XUV400? Reviews seem to show it as mostly well balanced EV.

None is talking about XUV400 because it is missing a lot of crucial features available in Nexon on almost the same price. Also the battery technology (NMC) used is not as good as the more durable LFP