[Livnletcarsliv]

As some of you in this forum know my cries, rants, frustration, and disappointment with my previous ownership of a 2019 BS4 Harrier XZ lemon, nevertheless, I am happy that I was able to get rid of the car finally.

Now, the biggest task of my life starts. To choose the right next car.
And here I am in seeking answers from the most passionate, unbiased, and professional automotive community that I know of in this entire world.

Before I list down my requirements and options considered, the following are things I like and dislike about Harrier. I always say that Harrier is a "Right product in the wrong hands' (Imagine a product like Harrier in the hands of VW/Honda/Hyundai/Nissan/Toyota/Ford).
Likes/Satisfied - Looks, performance (I remapped my Harrier), comfort, size, maintenance cost, ride, and handling (Handling could have been better though), build quality, door thud/heft, etc.
Dislikes/Unsatisfied - Highly unreliable, NVH, Steering, fit and finish, quality of materials used (including the paint and seat quality), infotainment, ASS experience, and the attitude of Tata.

Some of my requirements
1. Appropriate replacement of Harrier in terms of space. I only need a 5-seater. Though I am not strictly against 7 seats also.
2. Safety, performance, ride, and handling. I am an enthusiast looking to satisfy my Schumacher/Vin Diesel in me.
3. Reliability is an equal priority (since I lost my peace of mind and money with my previous car - Lemon Harrier).
4. I will be the only driver and this will my primary car. I have a beater car (2009 Indica Vista Diesel). I use it only for the sake of using it and I don't intend to sell it as it will be used as a backup and as a learner's car to my wife. I also hold on to my cars for as long as possible.
5. I am a person who appreciates sound mechanicals more than tonnes of gizmos. Of course, I expect at-par bells and whistles compared to the market if not the best.
6. I did about 48K kms in about 2yrs 10 months in my Harrier. I expect to do the same with +/- 5-6K. This is the last leg to own a diesel. However, my only concern is the DPF issue. While mileage is important, I would rather spend an additional 9rs/liter (or) 5K/month for the petrol rather than get stuck on the road with the DPF issue in a diesel. Am I worrying too much? Am I overthinking? Can I still go ahead with the diesel?
7. Budget is approximately 25L-35L.
8. Automatic preferred. Manual can also be considered.


My considerations

1. XUV700
Booked Diesel AX7 L AWD AT just for the sake of joining the waitlist queue. Am I right to believe this one slot in between a true enthusiast's car like a Compass/Tiguan and a more comfort-oriented car like Hector? Two concerns

a. Reliability. I don't want the same Harrier story. Personally, I feel that M&M has improved a lot these days and they are definitely better than Tata (especially their flagships) in this. Of course, I understand and can compromise for minor niggles here and there.

b. Diesel DPF issues. If this is a real concern, then I don't mind changing my booking to Petrol AX7 L AT. Of course, my monthly/yearly odo reading is also what bothers me about not going for petrol.

I believe that most/all of the major and minor niggles will be sorted by the time the car is allotted to me.

2. Compass Diesel Manual
I don't think and I am very skeptical (I drove the manual) that the automatic can satisfy the enthusiast in me (which is the primary reason for me to consider a Jeep). I strongly feel that Jeep in India has a poor score in terms of reliability with such low numbers they sell (as there are many horror stories even in this forum). And of course, it is not even a 5-seater (strictly 4+1). It will compromise for me in terms of space. I can probably go for a Kushaq 1.5 TSI M/DSG as well, and save tons of money if I am compromising space. I am not bothered about the "premiumness" of Compass compared to Kushaq since Kushaq is 5 star rated car.

I did not consider the Meridian as it is too big for my liking and use case. I might as well go with 700 there are no 5-seater options.

3. Tuscon Signature Diesel AT
Yes, it's a definite value for money when compared to all its competitors. However, I am not bothered about the value of money. I am also not satisfied with putting 42L for a Hyundai in India. And it doesn't satisfy the enthusiast in me. I also don't like the looks (both interior and exterior). Of course, it will also be too tight for me in terms of cost.

4. Tiguan
Yes, it definitely satisfies the enthusiast in me. While it is not as feature-rich as the Tuscon, it still satisfies me. Since this will be my primary car and my first VW experience, how is the Tiguan (being a CKD) compared to the 700 in terms of reliability? Since it is a petrol-only car, will the mileage (compared to any diesel car) make a dent in your monthly finance for everyday use? Again, this will be a literal squeeze for me in terms of budget. So how is Tiguan compared to 700 petrol and 700 diesel? Is it worth that extra 10-11L?

Not considered - Citroen C5 (IMO scores bad in terms of looks, rear seat, ASS network, cost, value), Hector (IMO scores bad in terms of brand, looks, center console, etc), Octavia (not a sedan person). Is there anything that I missed to consider?

Since I have a beater car to take care of my current needs, I can hold on for a few more months if there are better/other options upcoming like Qashqai, etc.

[bijims]

From your experience with the above cars, it comes down to a battle between the XUV700 and the Tiguan. Considering the same, I would like to point out the pros and cons of each:

Mahindra XUV700 AX7L AWD AT
The top-of-the-line Mahindra XUV700 is definitely a feature-packed car and one of the best money can buy at that price. It has it all, powerful 2.2L Diesel producing 182bhp of power and 450nm of torque, space aplenty, 18-inch alloy wheels, ADAS functions, a 5-star NCAP rating, 7 airbags, and almost everything you need in a car.

The road presence with its sheer size and commanding stance adds to its visual appeal. A roomy cabin with a more than capable powertrain and good driving dynamics (It provides a good ride and handling balance) and the feel-good features on offer set it apart from its rivals.

Volkwagen Tiguan 2.0 TSI DSG
A sophisticated and premium German crossover with a solid build, roomy cabin, immaculate handling, and smooth powertrain with quick throttle response, linear power output, and seamless gearshifts make it a driver's delight. However, the Tiguan is pricey being a CKD.

Moving on to a comparison between the two, the XUV700 definitely is the value buy here with a perfect mix of style and substance for the price. However, for the enthusiasts out there, there is almost nothing that can beat the Tiguan, it's a drivers' delight indeed. Material quality and fit and finish in the CKD Tiguan are much better than the XUV700 (whose range starts at around 16.5 lakhs) Mileage of the Tiguan is surely in single digits while the XUV700 diesel is more likely give you double-digit mileage. So, if you are alright with the quality of the XUV700 and are satisfied with its performance, save the 10 lakhs and keep your current booking. However, if you don't mind the mileage and don't mind spending the additional 10 lakhs for an overall better-built and better-performing vehicle, go for the Tiguan.

You could also take a look at this post from a fellow BHPian: https://www.team-bhp.com/news/planni...guan-heres-why

[GTO]

You've been through a lot with the Harrier. I would suggest the XUV700 Diesel. 24,000 km / year is high enough to warrant a diesel (petrol FE is like 6 - 7 kmpl in the city). Also consider the much-improved Scorpio-N (very butch, different kind of kick), Innova Hycross Hybrid (I have a feeling you will love it) & Tucson (IMHO, it is totally worth the price premium). I know you don't need the space, but take a spin in the Carnival too. Outgoing model at current price & incoming new model at higher price both to be considered. It's a beautiful car to drive.

This is the time to go out and do some serious test-driving.

Mahindras might have niggles, but the problems are nowhere as severe & widespread as in the Harrier.

[Shreyans_Jain]

After all that you have been through with the Harrier, I will strongly suggest that you look no further than the Innova HyCross hybrid. If there is any manufacturer whose calling card is reliability + peace of mind, it is Toyota. The hybrid powertrain will offer significant fuel savings which is an important factor given your high usage.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by bijims

From your experience with the above cars, it comes down to a battle between the XUV700 and the Tiguan. Considering the same, I would like to point out the pros and cons of each:

Moving on to a comparison between the two, the XUV700 definitely is the value buy here with a perfect mix of style and substance for the price. However, for the enthusiasts out there, there is almost nothing that can beat the Tiguan, it's a drivers' delight indeed. Material quality and fit and finish in the CKD Tiguan are much better than the XUV700 (whose range starts at around 16.5 lakhs) Mileage of the Tiguan is surely in single digits while the XUV700 diesel is more likely give you double-digit mileage. So, if you are alright with the quality of the XUV700 and are satisfied with its performance, save the 10 lakhs and keep your current booking. However, if you don't mind the mileage and don't mind spending the additional 10 lakhs for an overall better-built and better-performing vehicle, go for the Tiguan.

You could also take a look at this post from a fellow BHPian: https://www.team-bhp.com/news/planni...guan-heres-why

Yes, I did already go through this post. However, it will 1 year since this post by the time I get my car allocated, which means I allow good 2 years for M&M to sort the car. Doesn't it make sense?

Moreover, regarding the reliability, brand, and ownership experience IN INDIA, - Tiguan vs 700, VW vs M&M, I am unable to decide in black & white. Tiguan is a global model in CKD format to India, while 700 is a bread and butter model for M&M (Eg - Harrier/Safari is not the bread & butter of Tata even though they are the flagships. A fair amout of Harrier/Safari, if not all, sells only because of the long waiting period of 700 and Scorpio N).
Going by this,

1. When it comes to maintenance, what will be the approx difference between both given the Tiguan (being a CKD and VW), will be likely more expensive to own? It is not just about the initial cost to buy, but the entire cost to own is also important.
2. What will be the difference in mileage between the two, if I choose to go with the Tiguan? I am not a sedate driver. I pedal to metal occasionally when the situation permits. I don't believe in buying an enthusiast's car and driving it sedately (always) just to maintain a high kmpl.
3. How does it make sense to own a Tiguan as the only garage?
4. Finally, Tiguan is 40.74L and 700 is 30.47L ONR (as per carwale) in Chennai. Tiguan is approx. 34% more expensive than a 700. Are we getting 35% better car and overall better ownership experience with Tiguan?

Originally Posted by GTO

You've been through a lot with the Harrier. I would suggest the XUV700 Diesel. 24,000 km / year is high enough to warrant a diesel (petrol FE is like 6 - 7 kmpl in the city). Also consider the much-improved Scorpio-N (very butch, different kind of kick), Innova Hycross Hybrid (I have a feeling you will love it) & Tucson (IMHO, it is totally worth the price premium). I know you don't need the space, but take a spin in the Carnival too. Outgoing model at current price & incoming new model at higher price both to be considered. It's a beautiful car to drive.

This is the time to go out and do some serious test-driving.

Mahindras might have niggles, but the problems are nowhere as severe & widespread as in the Harrier.

Thanks, GTO. A small correction, it is not 24K/year (I did about 48K in 2 years and 10 months which is about 17K/year).

I seriously don't need the space of Carnival/Hycross. We are just 2 for now. And a full house is just a few days/weeks a year. So a 5 (Tiguan, Tuscon) or 5+2 (700) is more than enough for now.

While I say this, I would definitely give the Hycross a chance. I am just waiting for the real-world experience of the users.
Regarding Scorpio N, yes it is miles and ages better compared to the Scorpio classic. However, given the BOF and its use case, personally for me, if it is Scorpio then it should be 4*4 only. However, I am not an off-road person. I will never be able to justify the mechanicals of that machine. And given that I am not a sedate driver, body roll, compared to 700 will be much higher which ultimately makes me (and the passengers) unsettled at high speeds.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

After all that you have been through with the Harrier, I will strongly suggest that you look no further than the Innova HyCross hybrid. If there is any manufacturer whose calling card is reliability + peace of mind, it is Toyota. The hybrid powertrain will offer significant fuel savings which is an important factor given your high usage.

I agree with you 200%. I will definitely consider the Hycross once we have the real-world user experience and how it compares with the other monocoque machines (700, Carnival, Meridian, Kodiaq, etc) out there.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

My considerations

1. XUV700
Booked Diesel AX7 L AWD AT just for the sake of joining the waitlist queue. Am I right to believe this one slot in between a true enthusiast's car like a Compass/Tiguan and a more comfort-oriented car like Hector? Two concerns

a. Reliability. I don't want the same Harrier story. Personally, I feel that M&M has improved a lot these days and they are definitely better than Tata (especially their flagships) in this. Of course, I understand and can compromise for minor niggles here and there.

b. Diesel DPF issues. If this is a real concern, then I don't mind changing my booking to Petrol AX7 L AT. Of course, my monthly/yearly odo reading is also what bothers me about not going for petrol.

I believe that most/all of the major and minor niggles will be sorted by the time the car is allotted to me.

Get something you are comfortable with and go places with it, do not wait too long as we are not getting any younger by the day. XUV may or may not be the car for you however take it for an extended test drive, experience it at some speeds to fully understand what they have done. Ask for an AT test drive car of course. It is possible that you may like a smaller 5 seater crossover instead however no harm in giving it a shot.

In my observation XUV7OO is a good balance for a driving enthusiast - its tilted towards performance than outright comfort alone, as the speeds rise like a typical European car (Yes I know), the comfort too gets better.

While this is a sponsored video, Sirish Chandran has some information about why it feels European.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkdHdkMSjck

Here is our new year Convoy

The AT in 7OO is very well calibrated for the hills, along with AWD there is no drama, just instant progress. The 5OO in the picture is a 2020 BS4, the best iteration of 5OO.



The red XUV owner wanted a Kodiak at some point however given his previous experiences with Skoda Rapid it was considered a bad idea. He is happily touring all over TN, KL & KA with his AWD XUV AT. Since he is the only driver in his family, he relies on ADAS quite a bit on the Salem - Madurai- Nagercoil stretch - and surprisingly fuel efficient too.

Now about BS6 and DPF - You need some amount of highway running once a month atleast to keep it all clear.

You will get DPF dosing error in cold climate (single digit and below) at some point of its life - however that is normal, it goes away after some running.

[Benoit]

Given your high usage, and your ordeal with Harrier and the unreliability you suffered, you should simply get the Innova crystal diesel if it's available. May not be as much enthusiastic, but nothing can match its reliability. Take a test drive and consider it if you like it.

[VaibhavShatna95]

Looking at our forum feedback, I would advice you against XUV700 and Compass. NVH problems have been identified with Compass as well hence stay away from it and Mahindra is generally unreliable long term.
Tucson seems to be the most premium and sophisticated choice among the cars you have shortlisted so will vote for that. Hyundai ASS and reliability is well known and I think this car would serve you well long term as it is built to European standards.

[bijims]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

1. When it comes to maintenance, what will be the approx difference between both given the Tiguan (being a CKD and VW), will be likely more expensive to own? It is not just about the initial cost to buy, but the entire cost to own is also important.
2. What will be the difference in mileage between the two, if I choose to go with the Tiguan? I am not a sedate driver. I pedal to metal occasionally when the situation permits. I don't believe in buying an enthusiast's car and driving it sedately (always) just to maintain a high kmpl.
3. How does it make sense to own a Tiguan as the only garage?
4. Finally, Tiguan is 40.74L and 700 is 30.47L ONR (as per carwale) in Chennai. Tiguan is approx. 34% more expensive than a 700. Are we getting 35% better car and overall better ownership experience with Tiguan?

Surely, the Tiguan is much more expensive to own and maintain, and there is hardly a comparison, For example, the third service of the XUV700 will hardly set you back by Rs.4,000, the third service of the Tiguan will set you back by back by a whopping Rs.27,000. Moreover, overall maintenance costs per km of the XUV700 would likely be around Rs. 0.70 per km, and the same for the Tiguan would be at least Rs. 1.70 per km.

With an ARAI-certified mileage of just 12.65 kmpl, You can expect a real-world mileage in the range of 7-10 kmpl for the Tiguan, whereas the XUV700 would give you a mileage in the range of 10-15 kmpl at the very least, Being a diesel you could get even more mileage too depending on your driving style.

With such a high cost of maintenance and poor mileage, I do not think it makes much sense to make the Tiguan the sole car in your garage. Moreover, repairs and spare parts are going to be costly for a CKD, so even minor repairs are also going to burn a hole in your pocket.

With approximately 35% higher cost, you are getting a foreign car with a foreign brand name with too much duty imposed on it because it's a CKD but fit and finish, and quality levels are excellent for the price you pay. Moreover, from a performance standpoint, it delivers.

But, is the Tiguan 35% better than the XUV700?, From a true value-for-money perspective, No.
The XUV700 definitely wins on the value front, it punches way above its weight when it comes to what it offers. From an ownership perspective, it depends on what you crave from your ownership, but overall from a cost-benefit analysis of both these cars, I would definitely put my money on the XUV700.

[Hayek]

Given how particular you are about reliability, I suspect that the Innova Hycross is probably the only car that will satisfy you in the long run.

The Tiguan is fantastic to drive (at least based on my Allspace experience), and with all due respect to GTO, the suspension on at least the Allspace is not bad at all. But it is not flawless. In 21 months and 21500 km, we have had to change our battery, horn and the key fob battery (multiple times in this case). And from my Superb experience, problems usually start after two years. Yes, you should take the extended warranty - but don’t assume you will have a trouble free car - especially if you remap the same and push it hard.

I am not familiar with Mahindras but I doubt they are going to be dramatically more reliable than a Tata. The Innova on the other hand will run and run, give you great economy and probably should be fast as well. Best of luck

[padmrajravi]

From your list my vote goes to Tucson. I think, everything else in your list will make you visit the service centre more than once in the first year itself. Well, nothing is absolutely certain, but there is a high chance that this will happen.

If I were in your place, I wil buy the top end Hyryder and invest the rest of the money. Hycross is an overkill for a two member family. You can always buy something from a higher segment or may be a 7 seater few years down the line when the family expands.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

From your list my vote goes to Tucson. I think, everything else in your list will make you visit the service centre more than once in the first year itself. Well, nothing is absolutely certain, but there is a high chance that this will happen.

If I were in your place, I wil buy the top end Hyryder and invest the rest of the money. Hycross is an overkill for a two member family. You can always buy something from a higher segment or may be a 7 seater few years down the line when the family expands.

Hyryder/Grand Vitara is a big disappointment to me, especially for how much it costs. Worst on the performance, ride and handling, build and boot space fronts. As an enthusiast, there is nothing that is impressive/desirable in that. It is neither mod friendly. I will happily buy a Kushaq 1.5 DSG/MT if that is the case. A Maruti for 23 Lakhs and compared to a Skoda?

[EV NXT]

A Mahindra is a Tata in disguise. So steer clear.

Given your experience with unreliability, you need to rule out Skoda’s and VW’s to avoid unreliability caused by abuse which could be part of the problem in addition to manufacturing issues.

That leaves you with the Tucson or Innova Hycross which are your only real choices. Contrary to what you’ve said, the diesel Tucson can satisfy most enthusiasts as it handles like a sedan, is reliable and would be reasonably abuse friendly too.

[bijims]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Hyryder/Grand Vitara is a big disappointment to me, especially for how much it costs. Worst on the performance, ride and handling, build and boot space fronts. As an enthusiast, there is nothing that is impressive/desirable in that. It is neither mod friendly. I will happily buy a Kushaq 1.5 DSG/MT if that is the case. A Maruti for 23 Lakhs and compared to a Skoda?

Absolutely, the Grand Vitara and Hyryder are in no way enthusiast-suited cars, they are for those who just want to get things done, require the features, and want mileage. I have kept my opinion reserved for the Innova Hycross, but as far as reliability goes, since its a Toyota, it will run for ages without ever givng you any problems, do take a test drive and see how it goes, maybe the Hybrid may be just what you need.Mileage will be great too.

However, if you want something cheaper, the Skoda Kushaq and VW Taigun DSG would be a good choice for the driving enthusiast.

[androdev]

Your usage of 17-20K km per year is very high to venture into European brands. European petrols (VW/Skoda) would be even worse.

The way I would address this problem is to have a European car for highway drives and use a budget friendly car for city usage so as to keep the Euro car under 80K km during the length of my ownership.

If your 17-20K km per is mostly highway usage, then I would not recommend a Euro car unless you got money to spare. Hyundai Tucson deserves a closer look. XUV 700 is not something I would pick as I prefer smaller footprint with more finesse.