[ralto]

Objective: Looking to revamp my 2-car garage with a strong requirement of 4x4s.

Current cars:
2015 Duster: Diesel Manual, will be retained in the family
2012 Thar CRDE: (Bought used), already on it’s way out due to low usage

Target preferences:
1. One 4x4 tourer
2. Plush city commuter

Budget:
Around 50 lakhs. Little flexible as won't be buying both cars together.

Purchase Timeline:
Between the next 6-months and can go up to 2 years. Some nice cars have a waiting period attached, plus I don’t have an urgent need so I can do well with waiting times.

Disclaimer:
The requirements are very similar to a fresh thread on TBHP (What is the best car-garage combo in a country like India), however, the devil is in the details.

The details:
Car 1: A 4x4 Tourer.
This car needs to be a proper 4x4. Will be used for travel to remote places frequently and often times for excursions and off-road remote trips. I don’t do hardcore off-roading or weekend off-road trails etc, which would be more suited to something like current-gen Thar. Plus I need to seat more people.

Cars considered:
A. Scorpio N
B. Thar-5 door if launches soon enough, although would want to avoid the first batch
C. Used Fortuner 4x4 AT.

Car 2: A city commuter
This car needs to be on the little nicer side of things compared to butch/brute Car no.1. One of the cars will also be regularly driven by the wife, so probably this will be that. She does drive Thar CRDE but doesn’t enjoy it and is very comfortable with Duster. I am still inclined towards getting an AT only.
Cars considered:
A. Kia Sonet: I find this costly considering it is a size smaller than Duster yet AT (not DCT) will cost around 15 lakhs, but keeping price aside, it is quite a nice car in terms of interiors when compared to the Duster and size is quite compact.
B. Used BMW X1: Just the perfect size and has a badge.
C. Used Merc GLA: New gen (4matic maybe?). Same as above. Quite like the current gen's looks but could be a costly affair compared to X1.
D. Used Discovery Sport (what’s better than 1 4x4 ? 2 4x4s). Have always loved this car and the budget-wise can be adjusted, assuming a cost of around 35-40 lakhs.
E. XUV700: Like the car, wifey loves it. Has an AWD option too. Having this ScorpioN would make two cars quite similar to each other but swap ScorpioN with a Thar-5 door, it could evenly balance the equation.

Cars ruled out:
A. Upcoming Jimmy: Quite small by the looks of it whereas I will need a full-sized tourer.
B. Grant Vitara: Love the fact it has an AWD option, but since this is manual so doesn't make the cut.
C: Vag siblings: Some nice cars like Tiguan, and Kodiaq (love this) but I am looking for relatively fuss-free ownership and don't like spending time in garages unless it is truly a car that I enjoy for example Thar CRDE from my current garage. And based on the reviews and horror stories on the forum I wouldn't go for them, even though wifey has a soft spot for the Kushaq.

Some other points :
1. Inclined to wait for the Thar-5 door as I plan to keep the tourer long term and Thar will have will be more mod-friendly. On the contrary, opposites options are also quite good as ScorpioN will be plusher and more comfortable for passengers. The only drawback is that it may not be mod-friendly at the same levels as Thar.
2. In the current scenario Sonet+ScorpioN can be almost immediately bought plus budget-wise would be quite good on the pocket.
3. We do not have a beater car or a 2-wheeler for errands, as usually don't find a need for a standalone beater car, and current duties are carried out by the primary car i.e. Duster.
4. My daily commute is about 20km as my office is close to my home, but soon that will change to about 50km.
5. Also seeking suggestions on which car to be bought first considering waiting periods and launch dates too.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by ralto

Target preferences:
1. One 4x4 tourer
2. Plush city commuter

Car 1, either the butch & macho Scorpio-N 4x4 or more luxurious XUV700 AWD are best for you. XUV700 will be more comfortable and since you don't intend to do hardcore offroading, the AWD will suit your touring needs in remote areas.

Drive both. Go with your heart. Both appeal to the head.

Thar-5 door if launches soon enough, although would want to avoid the first batch

I expect the Thar 5-door to come next year, as spy pics of testing are already on the forum. No need to avoid initial batch there as the mechanicals & electronics are the same as existing Mahindra UVs.

For Car 2 = Sonet is awesome if you want something compact and in your budget. If open to sedans, consider the Slavia / Virtus 1.5L turbo-petrols for a permanent smile on your face, or the City 1.5L CVT. Since you can stretch the budget a bit, how about a Scorpio-N / XUV700, along with an Octavia? Octavia Style variant is 32-lakhs OTR before discounts. Two cars - each costing approximately 30 lakhs - will stretch your initial budget a bit, but you will have a fantastic garage. If you want to stay within 50 lakhs, then pick the Sonet or Slavia to accompany the Scorpio-N / XUV700.

[shankar.balan]

Yours is a very clear and well considered requirement from the looks of it.
1. Definitely the Scorpio N 4WD and XUV700 AWD should be there in your consideration set. Personally I would gravitate more towards the Scorpio because it is just tougher and therefore more suited to your remote area touring needs. The XUV with its heavy reliance on Electronics wont be nearly as tough as the Scorpio will.
2. Most certainly it is worth waiting and seeing the Thar 5 door. From all accounts it uses the same rear suspension (Watts link plus Frequency Dependent Dampers) as the Scorpio N does and this will make it much more comfortable than the 3 door. Plus the 5 door lets face it, is way more practical. You will not need to wait for any niggles to be ironed out because essentially the 5 door Thar is the same as the 3 door Thar in terms of most of its electronics and mechanicals and the people who were the early adopters of the 3 door Thar, have helped M&M in identifying and killing off most of those niggles. The Thar will be a little more off road and bad road oriented than the Scorpio N. (I use my 3 door Thar Petrol Automatic as my Grand Tourer.)
3. Ref your need for a city oriented daily driver vehicle which brings a little luxury and prestige with it. You seem to be in Chandigarh. There are some superb deals to be had there in terms of the Luxury car segment.

(The Chandigarh Golf Club car park actually looks like a multi-brand luxury car dealer’s yard - maybe if one lands up there in an old Gypsy for example, probably no caddy will even come close!)

I am very much with you in your consideration of an used BMW X1. It looks good. Has decent clearance. Excellent handling and very car like feel.

I also like your thought on the used Merc GLA for the same reasons as above. However, in this case I’d stay with the less expensive 2WD version. Yes I also like the new one’s looks more than the old one. No harm checking, Im sure there will be some well heeled bloke wanting to switch, so you might very well find one in the new shape.

I wouldn't buy a Scorpio N and an XUV700. Why would I want both my cars to be from the same maker?

I would also consider (if vast acres of space and size and bulk per se aren’t big priorities), a nice little used Mini Cooper S. Chandigarh has the roads where such a car can be enjoyed. And incidentally the newer F56 Twin Scroll Turbo Mini Cooper S is a longer and wider car than the older R56. It can actually fit two golf bags laterally in the back with the seats folded down and two golf trolleys as well. So basically, it is a wonderful little car for a single person or for a couple. Can be used happily in the city and is a safe and planted option even for quick highway trips. (I use my ten year old Mini in much this way. Its a great car to loaf about in. And the engine sound and exhaust growl are addictive.)

Personally I don't like the Kia and Hyundai offerings like Creta and Seltos and Sonet and Venue and all because they have made compromises on the cars they sell here in the Indian market.
I would consider either the Toyota Hyryder Urban Cruiser AT or the Maruti Grand Vitara Intelligent Hybrid AT in preference to the Korean offerings in the same segment. This is because the hybrid technology is more exciting.

So thats my 7 bits towards helping you make up your mind!

All the best!

[ralto]

Originally Posted by GTO

For Car 2 = Sonet is awesome if you want something compact and in your budget. If open to sedans, consider the Slavia / Virtus 1.5L turbo-petrols for a permanent smile on your face, or the City 1.5L CVT.

Thanks for the suggestions GTO. The only small issue with the sedans is that wifey has a preference for a compact car. I understand some of the options might not be that compact, but the second issue is of visibility. Low-slung sedans create visibility issues when the better half is driving. Also quite sure that don't want to go for DSG and manuals so that eradicate sedans and VAG family products.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Personally I would gravitate more towards the Scorpio because it is just tougher and therefore more suited to your remote area touring needs.

Thanks for a very detailed answer Shankar. I am more inclined towards ScropioN too, but as you said, Thar-5 door will presumably be a great alternative to this, and hence quite a bit of confusion. Seems from suggestions though that it might be worth waiting for it to launch.

There are some superb deals to be had there in terms of the Luxury car segment.

Yes, the good thing about Chandigarh is there are good cars in the market, and not very difficult to find a pampered one. I should know as I found an excellent Thar, which unfortunately I will be soon bidding farewell to.

As for X1 and GLA, X1 will definitely work out cheaper, but GLA looks better to me and is more recent product. Not sure how the launch of new X1 will affect the price of the current gen in the pre-owned market.

I would also consider (if vast acres of space and size and bulk per se aren’t big priorities), a nice little used Mini Cooper S.

This is also a very good option. I dropped this in favour of X1, as I assumed it will be easier to maintain BMW compared to a Mini. I am not sure though as don't have much experience into german/high-end cars.

Personally I don't like the Kia and Hyundai offerings ...
I would consider either the Toyota Hyryder Urban Cruiser AT or the Maruti Grand Vitara ....

I don't particularly like Kia and Hyundai offerings too, to be honest. Have had a bad experience with older i20 in the extended family too. Sonet made it to list as AT was an option (besides DCT) and compact size and budget was somehow a very nice combination. I do like your idea of going with Toyota and Maruti twins. Quite a few variants to choose from. Although had they provided AWD one with an AT, I would have happily compromised on any other shortcomings.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by ralto

This is also a very good option. I dropped this in favour of X1, as I assumed it will be easier to maintain BMW compared to a Mini. I am not sure though as don't have much experience into german/high-end cars.

I do like your idea of going with Toyota and Maruti twins. Quite a few variants to choose from. Although had they provided AWD one with an AT, I would have happily compromised on any other shortcomings.

All Mini Coopers from the F56 series onwards (2015 ish +) use BMW engines, most with twin scroll turbo chargers and are all badged S. These engines are also doing duty in the 3,5 Series and all, albeit in different states of tune. So maintaining a Mini nowadays is like maintaining any BMW. The skin and avatar are different. But the insides and underpinnings are the same.

On this topic you may want to also look at a Mini Clubman or Countryman. (To me though, there is nothing quite like the little 3 door Cooper S.)

I’d still go and take a look at those new Hybrids from Toyota and Maruti. Because, assuming you go with this strategy that you have laid out in your initial post, you’ll anyway already have one 4x4 and hence no need to have 2.


I have anyway armed myself with these, but the objective is to learn more, since I love these cars very much.

[Shreyans_Jain]

I find the Scorpio N 4x4 to be a fairly overpriced vehicle that comes with a lot of compromises in terms of practicality and utility.

If I were you, I’d go big on the primary car - the 4x4 SUV, and go for relatively basic yet accomplished automatic for local use.

Car 1: Nothing like the Skoda Kodiaq. Get the base Sportline trim, it has everything you can possibly need and is a far more premium, refined and simply a more accomplished vehicle than the Mahindra duo. In fact, it is not even a comparison.

Car2: My pick for you will be the upcoming Citroen C3 automatic. The manual C3 turbo has received excellent reviews for its mechanicals - powertrain, chassis, ride and handling etc. The basics are very much in place. The addition of a 6 speed torque converter and all the missing equipment will make it the most complete and no-compromise car in the 10L ex showroom price range. It will be an ideal urban commuter.

[ralto]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I have anyway armed myself with these, but the objective is to learn more, since I love these cars very much.

This definitely adds Mini to consideration list then.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Nothing like the Skoda Kodiaq.

Absolutely agree with you on this one. This is one car for which I would risk Skoda badge and DSG issues. Simply love for what it offers. Although my usage would demand a slightly more capable 4x4 as I would be really worried to take this on some of the rough patches/trails that I will need to do almost regularly. No other reason I could find against Kodiaq.

My pick for you will be the upcoming Citroen C3 automatic.

I was surprised to see a C3 popup in another thread for 2022 enthusiast cars. If they launch a capable Automatic then size and freshness factors are spot on.

Maybe I need to get my wife to test drive Kodiaq, if she finds it drivable then adding a Thar-5 door, later on, will still be kind of okay in the budget. Man this sounds good.

I find the Scorpio N 4x4 to be a fairly overpriced vehicle that comes with a lot of compromises in terms of practicality and utility.

I did find storage space a bit compromising. Though there are some positive comments coming on ground clearance expect which I was worried about a little. Any particular issues that you found to be deal breakers?

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by ralto

Although my usage would demand a slightly more capable 4x4 as I would be really worried to take this on some of the rough patches/trails that I will need to do almost regularly. No other reason I could find against Kodiaq.

I did find storage space a bit compromising. Though there are some positive comments coming on ground clearance expect which I was worried about a little. Any particular issues that you found to be deal breakers?

We have a Kodiaq Sportline 4x4 in the family. While it is excellent in most conditions, I agree I cannot be as carefree with in the way I can be with my Hexa. It is more the fear of breaking something than anything else, for I have never actually managed to scrape even the front bumper lip. Still, I believe the car can go just about anywhere short of extreme stuff with good M+S rated tyres.

With the Scorpio, the non sliding middle row, the useless third row and especially the way the third row folds, taking up half the boot space in process, they are all deal breakers. Overall, the car just does not have the finesse and overall execution befitting the 30L asking price. I find the XUV700 to be nicer vehicle overall for similar money. If you actually need that extra 4x4 ability the Scorpio offers over the 700 AWD, then you might as well go for the Fortuner.

[ralto]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

With the Scorpio, the non sliding middle row, the useless third row and especially the way the third row folds, taking up half the boot space in process, they are all deal breakers. Overall, the car just does not have the finesse and overall execution befitting the 30L asking price. I find the XUV700 to be nicer vehicle overall for similar money. If you actually need that extra 4x4 ability the Scorpio offers over the 700 AWD, then you might as well go for the Fortuner.

I agree XUV700 is just a nicer car overall. As for Scorpio's middle row, non-sliding seats is really a shame, combined with the improper space utilization of third row after tumbling down.

As for Fortuner, I am considering this in the pre-owned version. Can't come to terms with spending almost 50 lakhs for a new one somehow. Though, nothing would beat the tension-free and go-anywhere experience of it.

[Sandegov]

Had a somewhat similar requirement and I went with the below:
Car 1: XUV700 AWD (Outstation trips)
Car 2: Nexon EV Max (Self driven City beater car, replacing Honda city)

If EVs are not something you are keen on, then I would suggest a Honda City from my personal experience - extremely comfy for city drives.

[buzzy_boy]

Simple:

Tourer= XUV 700 AWD
Plush City car = ZS EV.

EV convenience in City is hard to beat.

[lamborghini]

If you're going to remote places, I wouldn't recommend anything other than the Fortuner 4*4 AT : It's expensive, but it will never stress you with niggles or worry of break down - unfortunately I don't have the same optimism for the XUV / Scorpio-N / Safari, though I hope they get their act together as these are absolutely brilliant vehicles and I would love to have one in my garage.
Pick up a cared for pre-owned example since these cars are built to last - new just doesn't make sense looking at prices & equipment on offer.

For the city car, I would give the Kushaq / Taigun 1.0AT a strong look : safe, compact dimensions, comfortable for 4 passengers, and a little fun to drive. Even the Nexon EV is a brilliant option subject to range / rear seat comfort.

[VinsWagen]

Originally Posted by ralto

Thanks for the suggestions GTO. The only small issue with the sedans is that wifey has a preference for a compact car. I understand some of the options might not be that compact, but the second issue is of visibility. Low-slung sedans create visibility issues when the better half is driving. Also quite sure that don't want to go for DSG and manuals so that eradicate sedans and VAG family products.

That really doesn’t eradicate VAG offerings. Just swap the 1.5 DSG from GTO’s list with the 1.0 TC Kushaq or Tiguan. Its a perfect one for your usage and without the DSG, current VAGs are, I dare say, as reliable as a Hyundai and way more safer.

[SilverSmoke]

Originally Posted by ralto

Maybe I need to get my wife to test drive Kodiaq, if she finds it drivable then adding a Thar-5 door, later on, will still be kind of okay in the budget.

Females love to drive Kodiaq. Wifey & my best friend's wife both agree upon it being smooth, comfortable & a perfect handler at triple digits.

Interiors are top notch - after 5 months leather aroma is still there.
Leave a door open - they literally invite you in.

[DeepakS]

Originally Posted by GTO

Car 1, either the butch & macho Scorpio-N 4x4 or more luxurious XUV700 AWD are best for you. XUV700 will be more comfortable and since you don't intend to do hardcore offroading, the AWD will suit your touring needs in remote areas.

Drive both. Go with your heart. Both appeal to the head.



I expect the Thar 5-door to come next year, as spy pics of testing are already on the forum. No need to avoid initial batch there as the mechanicals & electronics are the same as existing Mahindra UVs.

For Car 2 = Sonet is awesome if you want something compact and in your budget. If open to sedans, consider the Slavia / Virtus 1.5L turbo-petrols for a permanent smile on your face, or the City 1.5L CVT. Since you can stretch the budget a bit, how about a Scorpio-N / XUV700, along with an Octavia? Octavia Style variant is 32-lakhs OTR before discounts. Two cars - each costing approximately 30 lakhs - will stretch your initial budget a bit, but you will have a fantastic garage. If you want to stay within 50 lakhs, then pick the Sonet or Slavia to accompany the Scorpio-N / XUV700.

If the budget of the said gentleman allows to go upto 60-65 lacs INR, then why not go for a brand spanking new Toyota Fortuner 4x4 automatic(52 lacs approx) and a Base model Verna diesel or the new Honda City base model(which has more than basic features). This would essentially fulfil both the purposes, all the while being very reliable, safe, trouble free and low on maintenance. Added bonus is that both vehicles are global models(not half assed attempts by manufacturers to please us Indians), both are immensely great vehicles and both will last 10 years + easily!