[SR-71]

I was avoiding this what car thread long enough, as most of my queries were being addressed by existing posts or PMs to fellow team members and some team-bhp mods. That is until GTO schooled me in putting this up citing that will help many more people. Before I bore everyone with details I would like to thank a few forum members who have helped with lot of responses over PM. Special thanks to mods Manson and Vid6639, members gungax, itwasntme and pridered who have helped me with responses and suggestions that have been useful.

My past rides
Indica, Vento, Jetta, Veto, Verna

Reason for this purchase
Umm, do I need one . I have no compelling reason other than buy one with a powerful engine. This will be my last fossil fuel driven ride and I plan to keep it until EVs become mainstream. I have never held a car beyond 5 years in my life but this is something I intend to keep for longer for reasons mentioned in the previous line.

Budget
Set out with a hard cap of 50L back in December. But 2 prices hikes across brands have pushed a lot of car out of this bracket within a span of 4 months. I willing to go out of this by a small margin only if the ride is totally worth it in all aspects. Please do note that just because I have this cap, it doesn't mean I am fine exhausting every penny from the bucket just because I can. It needs to be worth the price. I am more than happy spending lesser for a car that is equally competent.

My asks from a car (listed in order of preference)

• Safety features, it should be a EURO NCAP 5 star rated no compromises here
• Should be lovely to drive with adequate power (explosive power will be welcome)
• Should have sorted road manners, I hate those vertical movements on undulating roads and expansion joints
• I should not feel tired at the end of a 10 hour drive
• Automatic with cruise control
• Nice cabin insulation
• Good air conditioning
• Dual zone CC - The wife and I have diametrically opposite views of what the ambient temperature should be, in her words, I am a polar bear
• Powered driver seats
• Comfortable rear seats (for family, I am never going there)
• Auto dimming rear view mirrors. Years of night driving has taught its real value
• Headlamps with good throw. My drives include a lot of night time thrown in though its much lesser than before (getting old)
• Pleasing cabin with good aesthetics. I hate gaudy or rough fit and finish. Except for my first ride, every other ride has ticked this aspect.
• Should return the value I pay for it. I don't want to pay through the nose just because it has snob value attached to it

Nice to have but that wont be a deal breaker if I miss it

• Sunroof
• 3 zone CC
• Auto park assist (doubt I will ever use it though)
• Ventilated seats (will miss it but not a deal breaker)
• ADAS

What I do not care for

• Badge/Snob value
• Bhaigiri value

I prefer a Sedan, always owned a Sedan in India but wondering if its worth shifting to an proper BOF SUV. People say you are less tired after driving for hours together in an SUV. I do frequent 10+ hour drives. I have driven sedans and crossovers stateside for multiple 10 hour stretches but I find little difference in the tiredness aspect. In India all my 10+ hour drives have been in an Sedan. The only time I hate the sedan is when its raining cats and dogs and I am stuck in those long queues in toll and have these fat boy SUVs intimidating me on both sides. Here is list of rides I have test driven so far and my opinion about it. Here is a list of rides I have test driven. Prices are OTR Bangalore without accounting for any discounts.

Skoda Octavia L&K [OTR: 36.70L]
Pros:

• Excellent fit and finish
• Fantastic power
• Good cabin insulation
• That USB C port for dashcam in the mirror :-)
• Latest generation

Cons:

• Worried about the infamous DSG failure and ill-famed Skoda service
• Ground clearance, specially in Bangalore cause we have monster vehicle breakers and waters logging during monsoon.
• I felt the ride to be a bit soft
• I would have preferred a shift lever instead of that knob

VW Tiguan [OTR: 40.38L]
Pros:

• Simple and elegant
• Neither hate it nor love it

Cons:

• Could not find that perfect seating position
• Average audio
• Worried about future of VW in India
• Missing equipment list for that pricing

Skoda Superb L&K [OTR: 44.84L]
Pros:

• Excellent fit and finish
• Fantastic power
• Excellent cabin insulation
• Scratches that limo itch

Cons:

• Current generation to be replaced in 12 to 18 months
• Worried about the infamous DSG failure and ill-famed Skoda service

Toyota Fortuner [OTR: 45.31L]
Pros:

• Big burly but is easily drivable
• Don't have to worry about road conditions much
• Toyota's reliability

Cons:

• OKish fit and finish. As much as the Legender looks cool from the outside, its interiors look gaudy IMHO
• Lack of even basic equipment like auto dimming rear view mirror (non-legender variant)
• Average audio
• Bounces about in undulating roads, something that I hate
• My brother finds the back seat irritating as his hid keeps scraping with the roof. He is 6'1"
• Steering was a bit hard in parking conditions, it felt like a lorry !

Skoda Kodiaq L&K [OTR: 46.87L]

• All that applies to Superb applies here and it was a top contender in my bucket
• I hate the 1 year waiting period though. I am not that patient. If I put in money, I need the ride in a few weeks, if not I better wait without any anticipation.

Audi A4 Premium+ / Tech Edition [OTR: 57.37L / 61.15L]
Pros:

• Fantastic fit and finish
• Sorted ride but I feel it was nose heavy, like pushing a cart of bricks in certain scenarios.
• Getting a good deal (probably gone by the time this post goes up)
• Scratches that luxury sedan ownership itch at a price point cheaper than its competitors
• Excellent ground clearance compared to all its cousins from VAG family and the BMW 330i

Cons:

• Mentally I feel I am being short-changed in terms of power and features for the money I pay. For example the P+ variant doesn't even come with virtual cockpit that the Octavia gets.
• For 7 additional L's (post the discount in P+ & no discounts in the Superb) I don't get anything substantial compared to the Superb. The Superb has better boot space, better audio and better equipment list.
• Worried about the future of Audi in India
• Same engine/gearbox in Octavia/Superb/Tiguan/Kodiaq (This is why I think Octavia is VFM in my list)

BMW 330i Sport [OTR: 57.97L / MSport is 65.53L]
Pros:

• There is only one point that makes me love this. Every time I test drove it, I had fun
• BMW has been my aspirational brand since I was young, but over years the value of this has reduced. In other words I wont let this be the primary decision maker

Cons:

• I never test drove this with any of my family members in the back but I hear it can be difficult for them
• Not as opulent as its peers
• 330i Sport has now become the Yeti. If it was available, I would have had my ownership thread up instead of this what car thread :-)
• The M-Sport seems way to expensive for that additional kit which adds no mechanical value or even interior aesthetics.
• The LWB goes out of my moral approval in what I believe I should pay for a car
• Not much options in terms of color (interior and exterior). I would like choices if I am going to pay 60 big ones

Cars test driven but ruled out

• Citroen C5 : The rear seat was uncomfortable for just about everyone in the family. Its a deal breaker for me.
• Toyota Camry : Would have considered it if it was priced in the same ballpark as Superb. At its current price point, I get the A4!
• Volvo XC40 : The rear seat is the only deal breaker here. If it had a better rear seat, I would have booked this. While it is not as quick as the VAG cousins, the safety features more than make up for this and is rated quiet high by CarAndDriver.
• Jeep Compass : I keep reading about the average fit and finish. I really hate squeaks and rattles.

Cars I wanted to TD but haven't gotten an opportunity

• S60 : There is simply no car in stock except for probably 1 in red that might come in this week. I don't like red. Any new deliveries will be no earlier than August.
• Tucson : The new Tucson seems like the yeti, we keep hearing about it in whispers but there is no firm information about it.

[nikhilthegunner]

After going through your post, I have to admit it's an extremely difficult decision to make. However, I think the Superb might just fit your requirement.

As per your own analysis, it has the least cons of the lot. Coming to the DSG bit, yes it can be concerning. However, the Superb has the wet clutch DSG (DQ381) if I'm not mistaken, while the lower Skodas and VWs with the dry clutch DSGs are the infamous lot. The wet clutch should be more reliable than dry clutch. I don't remember if there were as many complaints for the Superb auto as there have been for the DQ200 autos. Nonetheless, some mental preparation might be in order before biting the bullet.

I would not worry about the upcoming generational change as its become clear that the new strategy for vehicles by Skoda and VW is that of reducing quality through cost cutting in the name of localisation (Kushaq is one). It may be possible that the next generation would not be as plush as the current one. So this might give you more bang for your buck.

Regarding the Camry, I feel it should still be considered despite the price. Considering the Lexus ES and Camry are essentially the same car underneath, you're getting 5 series/A6 space for A4 money. You'll get to have your first experience of a hybrid powertrain as well and being a Toyota, it's damn near indestructible. The mods also felt that the car actually drives better than the previous generation. So do consider it please.

In case the above doesn't seem justified to you, would you be open to going to the used car segment? Then maybe you could look at a used Civic perhaps (New-gen) or even an Endeavour? The used Germans at around the 3-4 year mark could make sense as well given that the depreciation of the initial years is out of the way. You'd still get a car that's well within its prime and will serve you for as many years as you'd like. Or until the bills become properly frightening.

[shancz]

Voted wait.

Since 5/9 of your choices are related to waiting and since this is supposed to be your last ICE car waiting for 2023 is a no brainer.

- The Fortuner isn't your vehicle IMHO.
- If this has to happen in a few weeks and considering the Octavia's ride wasn't spot on for you, get the Superb.
Since this car would be kept for long, set aside a 3-5 lakh DSG fund.
The 2 lakh gap is configurable based on how expensive a Superb's DSG repair(if it happens) is compared other VAG cars like the Vento/Rapid.

But in conclusion better to wait and find some distractions for your new car itch

[vinu_h]

Originally Posted by SR-71

My past rides
Indica, Vento, Jetta, Veto, Verna

Reason for this purchase
Umm, do I need one . I have no compelling reason other than buy one with a powerful engine.

Like me, your past relationships have all been with Sedans. I have had the Superb for a year and done near 8000 kms. The car is just amazing. I stalked it for 3 years before making it mine. Service can be a hit & miss, but, there are ways around it.

Originally Posted by SR-71

This will be my last fossil fuel driven ride and I plan to keep it until EVs become mainstream.

EV isn't necessarily clean or fossil fuel free(yet) in India. We generate electricity from coal mostly and will take a few decades to change.

[padmrajravi]

I see that you have been a sedan person most of your life. I think you should wait for the 330i sport to become available. Fortuner is not the one for people who want polished interiors and sophistication. Its dashboard layout is from the 80s and an eye sore. Somehow I get the feeling you are someone who will appreciate a graceful interior.

I had thought about BMW when I made by Fortuner purchase. My reasoning was that I have to travel atleast 150 km to be able to go above 80kmph legally and the 4x4 ability will be much more usable to me than cornering abilities.

On another note, I remember a message from you about my comment on Fortuner's bounciness. To clarify on that, I haven't found Fortuner bouncy on good roads. The bounciness I mentioned is about the cabin movement when going over bad roads at speed. This is relevant only when you compare it against other 4x4s or MPVs. A sedan will have to be slowed down in such conditions any way. Also, contrary to your comment in opening post, non legender variants do come with auto dimming mirror.

I don't advise any one to go for DSGs these days. So all the VW offerings are out of consideration for me.

[poloman]

Most car manufacturers again increased the price by around 3-4%. Companies like Toyota has increased prices twice in 6 months. So advise to go ahead if you are looking to buy a car in 1-2 years.

[Maky]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on all the cars you have checked out thusfar. I found them to be honest and precise

Originally Posted by SR-71

Jeep Compass : I keep reading about the average fit and finish. I really hate squeaks and rattles.

The fit and finish seems to be absolutely top notch in my experience. I would say the Jeep Compass seems to appear from QA issues instead.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by SR-71

My asks from a car (listed in order of preference)..

From your requirements, looks like you maybe inclined towards having a good/powerful engine in a sedan which gives you tremendous VFM and is comfortable for the family in the rear seat. The price bracket means this is luxury territory.
What is interesting to note, is you have been driving/owning only a sedan till date, with the brilliant Vento/Jetta siblings among them.

All the marked words, resonate to a great extent with my personal preferences. And there's a lot of good discussion already documented on the forum also. Just browse the 'What Car?' section and you will be surprised to see many similarities.
However, what you have seen there (and possibly here also, when folks respond to you) is that till a point, there are always multiple choices having more or less similar feature-set, similar engine specs etc. But beyond that point, it is upto you and your family (if the context permits) to make a trade-off.
And that trade-off will be on matters that are very individualistic - whether you/family are comfortable with the badge, whether you/family want a BIG looking car, what's the appeal of the car, what's the preference of that awesome color palette (yes, I have seen people select/reject on this), what's the rollover effect of owning & driving earlier set of cars and so on.

My reco for you would be the A4 (that I booked recently and mentioned to you separately with few details ), followed by the Superb and then the Octavia.

[lamborghini]

If this is your last fossil fuel car, that you intend to keep for a long long time, with good power and dynamics - the answer is evident in your post itself : the BMW 330i!

The only hindrance is the rear seating : Yes, it is low but legroom and comfort is adequate. If you will have senior citizens sitting in the vehicle often - do take them on a test drive and see if they would be comfortable with the ingress & egress.

If not - you're left with the Octavia, the Superb, and the A4 - the A4 would tick mark the NVH & cabin factor compared to the other 2 - though they aren't far behind.

I wouldn't be worried about the Superb going out of production in 12-18 months : most of the models are going to see face-lifts & upgrades over the next 24 months along with price hikes - but if you love the car, the feelings wouldn't change.
Regarding DSG : Yes, it is a bane but to be honest the wet clutch that is now employed on the 2.0TSi VAG vehicles is a lot more reliable compared to the dry clutch.
Yes - chances of failure are there, but reduced significantly!

[sunikkat]

Voted for Octavia, since 330i normal WB was not in the list.

First preference would be 330i without any doubt. This might be last of your ICE car and if you can wait please do.
But if you are not ready to wait go for Octavia. I keep telling this, for me Octavia is indeed VFM as it is the entry point to that sweet 2 TSI engine. And you do save some bit of money. It is still the most fun to drive of the lot (except 3 series) and has premium quality inside out. Plus it is very practical with the space too. The DSG in Octavia / Superb is reliable too.

Want more fun - upgrade to bigger wheels and performance dampers

[IshaanIan]

Simply try getting your hands on a new but discontinued Civic and call it a day. Save the rest for something better after a few years. My recommendation is based on your mentions about not everyone in the family liking the rear seat, worries about reliability of certain cars, preference of sedan, no care for snob value and not wanting to spend everything unless it is worth it.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by SR-71

My past rides
Indica, Vento, Jetta, Veto, Verna

Is the Veto a typo for Vento presumably? Have you owned two Ventos or is the second one added inadvertently. We can edit out as you need if you report your post with the desired edit.

My asks from a car (listed in order of preference)

• Safety features, it should be a EURO NCAP 5 star rated no compromises here
• Should be lovely to drive with adequate power (explosive power will be welcome)
• Should have sorted road manners, I hate those vertical movements on undulating roads and expansion joints
• I should not feel tired at the end of a 10 hour drive
• Automatic with cruise control
• Nice cabin insulation
• Good air conditioning
• Dual zone CC - The wife and I have diametrically opposite views of what the ambient temperature should be, in her words, I am a polar bear
• Powered driver seats
• Comfortable rear seats (for family, I am never going there)
• Auto dimming rear view mirrors. Years of night driving has taught its real value
• Headlamps with good throw. My drives include a lot of night time thrown in though its much lesser than before (getting old)
• Pleasing cabin with good aesthetics. I hate gaudy or rough fit and finish. Except for my first ride, every other ride has ticked this aspect.
• Should return the value I pay for it. I don't want to pay through the nose just because it has snob value attached to it

This issue is as complex as it is simple as I see it - the simple is from your clear list of priorities. When I glance at the priorities many of the vehicles listed in the poll go straight out of the window - these include, most likely the Tucson, the Fortuner, almost any BOF SUV, the Audi A4 (not “explosive”, for the price), even the Tiguan and Kodiaq perhaps.

I am limiting my response on the assumption of a new car recommendation. If you are open to nearly new, this question takes on a whole different gamut of options that you could consider.

To me, this query comes down to being a two (at best three) horse race.

The Skoda Superb:
If you want to stay well within the set budget. You will have plenty of spare cash left over to deal with any potential DSG / other missteps.

The BMW 330 Li (/330i):
If you want to truly tick every single box there, including the one on back seat comfort. In Li guise the BMW will bring just that extra serving of both practicality and comfort befitting a 60 lakh product. If you absolutely don’t want to stretch to the Li, then the 330i should be your next choice in my view.

My top recommendation: The BMW 33Li - in whichever trim suits you

Given as you want to keep this for a really long time, this may well be your last ICE car and you have already experienced previous VAG products, including the very capable Jetta, I do think it is the BMW you should experience this time around. It will bring an altogether new experience to your garage from previous vehicles and one that will definitely be several notches over your closest other option - the Superb.

When
In terms of when, cars are not getting any cheaper from the looks of it, specially seeing where commodity prices are headed. So I would say if you’re ready for the purchase go for this now instead of waiting till 2023.

[voldemort]

Since this will be your last ICE car and you intend to keep it for long, get the BMW 330i or 330 Li, even if you have to stretch. Test drive with your family and see how that goes.

(I would have voted for BMW if it was there in the polls; have reported it to the mods.)

VW/Skoda cars have the DSG sword hanging over it. And besides, they're all FWD.

The BMW is a RWD car, and is also more reliable than the VAG cars.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by SR-71

Umm, do I need one . I have no compelling reason other than buy one with a powerful engine. This will be my last fossil fuel driven ride and I plan to keep it until EVs become mainstream. I have never held a car beyond 5 years in my life but this is something I intend to keep for longer for reasons mentioned in the previous line.

With 50-lakhs in hand & as an enthusiast, I'd buy any of the following:

- Brand new 330i and rev away to glory. This should be your option no.1.

- Pre-worshipped 530d with warranty coverage. Take the extended warranty, follow our used car checklist (including service history, checking past insurance claims etc.) and your risk is almost zero.

- Pre-worshipped Octavia vRS. A truly special machine that will make you giggle every time you drive it. No better "this is my last ICE car" than a vRS.

Bonus = the above 3 cars are very modification friendly and will keep you entertained for 10 years.

- Skoda Kodiaq. Very practical. It's too darn competent, especially with the new adjustable suspension & turbo-petrol. Your family will love it.

- Skoda Superb. But you said you don't like the "vertical movements" at speed and the current setup is very soft & comfort-oriented.

Happy shopping .

[androdev]

There are good cars and then there are special cars. If you value quality and consistency, you should consider Camry and 5 series.

Lack of consistency is the hallmark of VW group of cars. They are an excellent choice for someone looking for fun-to-drive factor on a budget and willing to tolerate niggles and glitches - some minor and some major. This invariably requires that the owner has some reasonable understanding of car mechanicals, otherwise a regular "fill-it-forget-it" owner will have a lot of anxiety. Don't get me wrong. I like VW cars, but I also consider myself a "car guy" and I won't panic if the car acts up.

Camry is definitely expensive. However it is a great choice for urban traffic and sedate driving. Each generation is getting better in appealing to "go fast, look hot" generation, so the perception that it is utterly boring is very outdated. Is it worth that much more than Superb? Yes, to those who don't like glitches. Camry is not a good choice for someone who prefers a very aggressive driving style. How aggressive? Hard braking (hallmark of it). Weaving through trucks instead of patiently waiting to overtake. Wanting to be in pole position.

5 series is a lovely family car. It looks gorgeous in every angle. I feel 520D has proven to be rock solid and one rarely hears of any major complains about 2.0L diesel engine (used in so many models), ZF8 transmission, AC or suspension. Even though it is very expensive, IMHO it tops the luxury segment in quality and consistency. Obviously, I can see you do not want to go this far in spending. From my personal experience, I feel the best time to break the bank to buy a nice family car such as 5 series is when you are a young family man (well before kids become teenagers). If you can buy a pre-owned car in mint condition and pair it with a beater car to spread the mileage/usage - it will serve you well for many years.