[i_s_bajwa]

Hello Fellow T-BHP members,

I’m seeking an advice for my friend who's looking to buy a personal conveyance. He’s currently not on this forum but found this platform an apt one in relation to buying guide.

Writing on his behalf the required criteria to satisfy his need:

- Fuel Efficient (Diesel / Petrol) (At least 16-17 KMPL on highways)
- C Segment Sedan / SUV
- No Compact Sedan or Compact SUV
- Ease of maintenance / Durable spares / Long term reliability
- Usage: Mix of City and Highway (No fixed ratio)
- Budget upto 18L. Can be extended till 20L.
- No Pre-Owned alternatives.
- Vehicle should justify it’s price (Price Value aspect)


Options considered:

- 5th Gen. Honda City ZX: Interior looks premium, loved it. But what Honda did to exterior ? It’s a downgrade from 4th gen., resembles more like a segment lower Amaze. Also, being longest and widest in it’s segment, doesn't seem so. Looks flimsy instead.

- 4th Gen. Honda City V: Evergreen styling. Still looks class apart and price aspect is justified. Only concern is cost cutting by Honda in relation to parts or build quality otherwise, a sensible option.

- Maruti Ciaz Alpha: Long old school fun fledged sedan like dimensions and easy maintenance is a plus point. It’s shorter in length than the 5th gen Honda City but still looks much bigger comparatively. Comfortable and no nonsense car it seems but build quality remains questionable !

- Tata Harrier XT: Bold looks, sturdy built, impressive ground clearance and features offered seems really catchy. However, Tata’s manufacturing defects / design flaws and after sales support is what puts one in a fix keeping in view the 20L price bracket and long term reliability.
Is 2020 launched BS6 Harrier really improved from initially launched BS4 ?
Any updates on 2022 Facelift ?

- Mahindra XUV700: Impressive in it’s segment ! Ruled out because of long waiting period.

- Kia Seltos: Kinda impressive Kinda Not ! Looks better than other CSUVs.

- MG Hector / Hector Plus: Not an option considering long term reliability.

- Hyundai Alcazar Prestige: Value for money in relation to features offered but exterior doesn’t look appealing at all. Ruled out.

- Verna SX Diesel: Front grille on facelift model is big No ! And rear space is lacking. Ruled out.

- Skoda Slavia: Skoda niggles and breakdowns, after sales support and long term reliability issues.

- Toyota Innova Diesel GX: Highly reliable but out of budget.

- Any other better alternative or soon to be launched model that satisfy the above mentioned criteria, pls do share.

My friend and I would be grateful for all your valuable insights and recommendations.

Looking forward to it.
Thanks.

[voldemort]

Honda City is a no-nonsense fuss-free car. We're happy customers of two 4th gen Honda City diesels. The interior material quality is not the best, but it's not so bad and I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker.

However, if you are going for the City I strongly recommend you go for the 5th gen. Why buy an older car?

Regarding Slavia's niggles — yeah there's a high likelihood, but we don't know for sure yet. Who knows, it might turn out to be surprisingly reliable. Or probably not. Still, check it out.

I know you said no CSUVs, but do check out the Tata Nexon. You might be pleasantly surprised.

What's your friend's existing ride?

[slightly off topic]
Looks like there's a sudden spike demand for ₹18L cars, albeit with differing requirements.

There are atleast 3 different threads discussing this:

1. https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-...under-18l.html (High Usage 2nd Car under 18L)
2. https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/suvs-...r-18l-otr.html (Which 7 seater for 18L OTR?)
3. (this one) https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-...under-18l.html (Reliable, Fuel Efficient, under 18L)

And why 18 as opposed to a nice round number like 20? Seems like a funny coincidence.

[shashi792]

Your requirements are something which most of us start when upgrading. But, it's very difficult to find something that fits the bill. You have eliminated most of the vehicles which fall in this price bracket. Few remaining vehicles which I suggest are

1. Maruti XL6/Ertiga:
   • 4 star rated care
   • Long term reliability
   • No problem of spares
   • Its Maruti, its cheaper to maintain

1. Tata Nexon:
   • Long term reliability
   • No problem of spares
   • Tata has sold so many Nexons that it should have sorted a lot of initial niggels.

1. Mahindra marazzo
2. Maruti S-Cross (new one)
3. Next Gen Vitara

[i_s_bajwa]

Originally Posted by voldemort

1. Honda City is a no-nonsense fuss-free car.
However, if you are going for the City I strongly recommend you go for the 5th gen. Why buy an older car?

2. Regarding Slavia's niggles — yeah there's a high likelihood, but we don't know for sure yet.

3. I know you said no CSUVs, but do check out the Tata Nexon.
What's your friend's existing ride?

4. And why 18 as opposed to a nice round number like 20? Seems like a funny coincidence.

Thanks for your input.

Note: I’ve numbered your valuable (quoted) responses above for further inputs as below:

1. Honda City remains one of the most preferred with more inclination towards 4th gen as it justifies its price and outer styling is better than the 5th gen. 5th gen offers great features but outer flimsy look is kind of disappointing keeping in view the price of top end model.

2. Upcoming Slavia is quite a looker, undoubtedly ! But, he wants a vehicle which doesn’t breakdown on a usual basis and has got long term reliability.

3. He’s currently using D segment sedan, Renault Fluence Diesel.
Now, wants an easy to maintain yet a good looking one.
Options considered should be close to or at par with Fluence so, nexon and the likes are not considered.

4. Not strictly 18L, but till 20L On Road as mentioned in the criteria.

Originally Posted by shashi792

1. it's very difficult to find something that fits the bill.

2. Few remaining vehicles which I suggest are
Maruti XL6/Ertiga:
Tata Nexon:[*] Mahindra marazzo[*]Maruti S-Cross (new one)[*] Next Gen Vitara

Thanks for your input.

Note: Valuable quoted responses above numbered in regard to further inputs:

1. Correct. That’s why he chose this platform for valuable suggestions from T-BHP members.
Each and every input will surely prove valuable to him by providing more clarity.

2. The points mentioned does satisfy the criteria but they are all CSUVs except marazzo.
He personally drives Renault Fluence, which isn’t very easy on pocket in relation to maintenance but will retain it and needs another easy to maintain car with good looks.

Only a full size sedan or SUV till 20L On Road is considered. Compact ones are omitted.


He was eyeing on Tata Harrier but after reading few ownership reviews, he put it on hold till more clarity is reached in relation to failing parts like clutch or other quality issues that might create a hindrance in hassle free usage.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by i_s_bajwa

- 4th Gen. Honda City V: Evergreen styling. Still looks class apart and price aspect is justified. Only concern is cost cutting by Honda in relation to parts or build quality otherwise, a sensible option.
.....
- MG Hector / Hector Plus: Not an option considering long term reliability.
.....
- Toyota Innova Diesel GX: Highly reliable but out of budget.

These are the 3 I'd seriously reconsider.

City 4th gen: Best VFM. The cost saving outweighs the slight negative. If budget is the focus, one could pick this.

Innova Base model is almost in budget (depending on where it is registered). The slight stretch over 20L is offset by a cheap maintenance (for it's size) and reliability, and also better resale. If reliability is the focus, one could pick this.

MG Hector: One takes a somewhat higher risk with this one, but a lot of car for the money (dependent on trim). Diesel is pretty enjoyable to drive too. If space and comfort at a price is the focus, one could pick this. (Hector owners on T-Bhp generally seem happy with it)

- Any other better alternative or soon to be launched model that satisfy the above mentioned criteria, pls do share.

New launches have a much higher chances of niggles and maintenance issues from their first few batches. If that is a priority, sticking ones at least 1-2 years old models is a good idea. Also to take a trim with lesser features/electronics.

PS: Some details on the last 2 on the Choosing an SUV up to 22L thread.

[shancz]

Suggestions :
1. Honda City : whatever gen/model you prefer
2. S-Cross : a 4.3m crossover, since you had mentioned Ciaz this is worth a TD

Suggest to narrow down the requirements to be more specific since currently the options are covering a lot of segments which can't really be compared.
Things like MT/AT, Petrol/Diesel after factoring in the driving feel, usage conditions, NCR registration etc.

If its based on looks, remove the ones you cannot stand.

[i_s_bajwa]

Originally Posted by Poitive

City 4th gen: Best VFM. The cost saving outweighs the slight negative. If budget is the focus, one could pick this.

Innova Base model is almost in budget (depending on where it is registered). The slight stretch over 20L is offset by a cheap maintenance (for it's size) and reliability, and also better resale. If reliability is the focus, one could pick this.

Thanks for your valuable input.

- My friend and I have the same opinion as yours for the 4th gen. Honda City, the VFM aspect. On road price seems justified.
Just the fuel efficiency seems bit doubtful but we hope it provides atleast 16.5 KMPL on highway commutes at constant 100 KMPL.

- I believe, 4th gen would be easily serviceable in relation to general service and spares even if Honda got some restructuring plans in near future.

- Any additions to fuel efficiency aspect of 4th gen city (P) in practical scenarios will be appreciated


- Yes, innova is highly reliable and your point seems logical. It’s still on the list but GX is the minimum model to be preferred. Base is simply bland on the inside.

- It feels that the VFM vehicle is either in the lower range of 12L: 4th gen city or the higher one of around 22L: Innova. Couldn’t find in between option

Originally Posted by shancz

Suggestions :
1. Honda City : whatever gen/model you prefer

Suggest to narrow down the requirements to be more specific
Things like MT/AT, Petrol/Diesel after factoring in the driving feel, usage conditions, NCR registration etc.

Thanks for your input.

Yes, Honda City is still on the top of the list being a tried n tested product. It’s just the cost cutting which is evident currently unlike previously offered Hondas.

- Open to both MT, AT.

- D or P ( any provided the highway efficiency isn’t below 16-17KMPL)

- Since it will be an alternate vehicle, usage would be close to 600 - 800 KM/Month (Max)
60:40- City:Highway (Roads aren’t the best everywhere but he’s used to sedans, no issue and SUV seems future ready because of ground clearance.

- No an intervening issue in relation to NCR / RTO aspects in Punj.



Just mentioning, we aren’t getting any inputs on Tata Harrier. He seems inclined but also considering the fact that majority of members are not recommending it or may be not finding it a VFM option amongst others.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by i_s_bajwa

- Open to both MT, AT.
- D or P ( any provided the highway efficiency isn’t below 16-17KMPL)
- Since it will be an alternate vehicle, usage would be close to 600 - 800 KM/Month (Max)
- 60:40- City:Highway

Since its an alternate vehicle why not try the other side of the spectrum ?
If the primary is a sedan then try the SUV and vice versa.
Still undecided then get a crossover.

Coming to the options, not in order :
Sedan - Honda City : Most FTD and premium feeling of the lot but the concerns you mentioned do exist.
Crossover - S-Cross : competent and VFM, MSIL benefits
MSUV - Creta/Alcazar : The fuss free ownership but pricey
SUV - Harrier : the wow looks work, but TMLs hit/miss service and probably you won't need a Harrier for 60% city driving.

Tried to keep one from each segment.
Outside of these considering the ones you've already mentioned its tough to fit in.
Good Luck

[i_s_bajwa]

Originally Posted by shancz

1. Since its an alternate vehicle why not try the other side of the spectrum ?
If the primary is a sedan then try the SUV and vice versa.
Still undecided then get a crossover.

2. Coming to the options, not in order :
Sedan - Honda City : Most FTD and premium feeling of the lot but the concerns you mentioned do exist.
Crossover - S-Cross : competent and VFM, MSIL benefits
MSUV - Creta/Alcazar : The fuss free ownership but pricey
SUV - Harrier : the wow looks work, but TMLs hit/miss service and probably you won't need a Harrier for 60% city driving.

Very well presented in a logical manner. Thanks a lot.

1. It's an alternate vehicle but will be used as a primary one keeping in view ease of maintenance and durability for both highway and city as and when required.
Should be such that even if given to a chauffeur, no/least risk of mechanical or other damage is there unlike germans which need to be handled and driven with utmost care and are best only if driven personally as it's prone to issues we all know and chauffeur (if required) may not pay attention to the minutest details of careful handling / driving.

2. So, after valuable inputs, he's decided to select from the following options:

- 4th Gen. City V: Only Petrol available but price value seems apt.

- 5th Gen. City ZX (Petrol) Manual: Feature Rich and Reliable.
Amaze like front fascia still creates a doubt so, if any one has got a point to make him convince that it does get differentiated from Amaze while on the go, pls do the needful. Also, he prefers only Golden Brown or Modern Steel Metallic color in Honda City.

- 5th Gen. City ZX (Diesel): Not a choice of many but as he keeps his cars for long, selecting this will provide him with Mileage advantage, City being one of the most fuel efficient sedans, and that too both in city and on highway.
His close friend is already using 4th gen city diesel (iDTEC) since 6 yrs and clocked around 1,15,000 KM and still engine seems great with a mileage of 21.5 KMPL even when driven around 110-120 KMPH and that too not in a constant manner.
Feature rich and reliable like Petrol city with an added advantage of fuel efficiency.

- Tata Harrier XT: He's still stuck on the looks and yes, it does make you fall in love especially Dark Edition, ASS dilemma as it’s priciest of the lot.

- Mahindra XUV700 AX3: Only if he gets assurance from a dealership for early delivery which isn’t easy keeping in view demand and waiting periods.



Still open to further valuable inputs till final selection is done.
Thanks.

[AjinkyaP]

I would strongly suggest to get an automatic for the budget of ~20 lakh.

Take a look at MG Astor.
You can either get 1.5 NA CVT or 1.3 turbo AT in this budget.

Decent space.
Nice build quality.
Sorted dynamics.
Attractive engine-gearbox options.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by shashi792

[list=1]
Maruti XL6/Ertiga:

• 4 star rated care

When did that happen? Last we knew GNCAP rated it with a 3*?

Source

[sidg]

Most of your requirements will be satisfied by Ciaz or City. In terms of maintenance between the two, ciaz will be the winner. It may not have modern features, but space, comfort, mileage which are your prime requirements will be fulfilled. you'll also save a lot of money from your budget of 18L allocated for the car which can be used for fuel or for other purposes.

City comes close 2nd. it will be more fun to drive than the ciaz. The only downside is maintenance will not be as fuss free as a maruti.

[shashi792]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

When did that happen? Last we knew GNCAP rated it with a 3*?

Yes. My bad. I had in my mind that Ertiga scored better than Seltos. Now, I remember it was based on the Adult points scored of 9.25 against Seltos's 8.3

[i_s_bajwa]

Originally Posted by AjinkyaP

I would strongly suggest to get an automatic for the budget of ~20 lakh.

Take a look at MG Astor.

Noted ! Although, both auto and manual are considered. Either way, it's fine.
Astor being a crossover isn’t considered. Moreover, MG doesn’t satisfy the reliability aspect well as other tried and tested brands do and it has made it's Indian debut couple of years back only so, yet to prove it's position in the market.

Originally Posted by sidg

Most of your requirements will be satisfied by Ciaz or City. In terms of maintenance between the two, ciaz will be the winner.
City comes close 2nd. it will be more fun to drive than the ciaz. The only downside is maintenance will not be as fuss free as a maruti.

Yes, Ciaz will be bit easy on maintenance, comparatively. Side looks are really good but Rear and Front seems dated now. A new generation is due but no clues from Maruti Suzuki. They’re busy focusing on CSUVs and Hatchbacks.

Yes, Honda City seems better overall than Ciaz. Be it 4th gen or 5th gen.

Today, we inquired about XUV500 stock, if any, but it's all sold out. Was VFM option keeping in view decade old niggle free product.

Still, a dilemma continues as options aren’t much.

[syks]

We regularly hire Ciaz, XL-6, Ertiga for office commute. The FE is miserable 10-11kmpl in city and max of 13-14 kmpl on highway. If its safety Vs FE, then investing on these cars doesnt make sense. However they are quite spacious with easy ingress egress. My choice would be Honda city 4/5th though heart says wait for Slavia to hit the road!