[karanddd]

I have to replace a 10 year old petrol SX4. My budget is 15 lakhs. I don't have a job that requires commuting, nor do I intend to use the car as my primary means of transportation (for which I prefer to use my motorcycle). I also will be abroad a lot in the next 2-3 years, and will only use the car occasionally. My primary criterion for the new car is that it be fun to drive.

Things that help (but may not all be achievable): 3 pedal manual transmission, hydraulic power steering, small size

(Almost) deal-breakers: Automatic transmission, bad electronic power steering, heavy SUV like driving manners

Before anyone suggests a brand new Polo, I want to say that, from a medium length test drive, I felt the steering in the car to be very unresponsive and the stick shift to be a level below Suzuki or Honda cars (in feel and slickness).

I recently test drove a VW Taigun with the 1.5 engine and DSG. The car was fine, the power was good, but I did not enjoy driving it at all. In comparison, a while ago I had rented a manual Swift in Goa which I drove around for 4 days on South Goa roads and had a blast. The engine was definitely low on grunt, but the car felt so light and responsive. To be fair, the steering in that is also crap, and the suspension is so soft that the body rolls a lot. But the combination of the light weight, the light clutch, slick shifting stick, and the compact dimensions gave it such a point and shoot character that it brought a smile to my face every time I drove it.

Is there something like that I can buy, but with more power and better suspension and hydraulic steering? I am open to new and used options. I am wary of 10 year old Beemers that'll cost me lakhs and lakhs to repair, so I can only pray that they're not my only option.

(I need to be abroad 8-9 months of the year and during that time the car will be driven by other family members but only for upkeep. There is no need for the car to be practical in the sense of having space or refinement, but I don't want to be scared of breakdowns and the like either.)

[chethan.ram]

It would have been nice if you had mentioned the budget as well. Since you have mentioned about manual transmission, hydraulic power steering and also you are open for used option, I would say, Fiat Linea T-Jet which is sparing used if you can find one can be a good choice considering that you will be out of country on and off for the next 3 years. You will find a very good car at a very good price. The fun of driving that you are looking for, you won't be disappointed. It will be very light on your pocket now. Once you are back in the country permanently, you can go for a brand new car.

[saisree]

Originally Posted by karanddd

I don't have a job that requires commuting, nor do I intend to use the car as my primary means of transportation (for which I prefer to use my motorcycle). I also will be abroad a lot in the next 2-3 years, and will only use the car occasionally.

(I need to be abroad 8-9 months of the year and during that time the car will be driven by other family members but only for upkeep. There is no need for the car to be practical in the sense of having space or refinement, but I don't want to be scared of breakdowns and the like either.)

No offence, I would suggest to use Uber /OLA / rentals for those short requirements and save on that big money. You can buy it when you absolutely need it

[RavSam]

Originally Posted by karanddd

I have to replace a 10 year old petrol SX4...
(I need to be abroad 8-9 months of the year and during that time the car will be driven by other family members but only for upkeep. There is no need for the car to be practical in the sense of having space or refinement, but I don't want to be scared of breakdowns and the like either.)

The only fun analog car that comes to my mind is the MS S-Cross. Reasons: Service, build quality, sorted dynamics and good space (driven one).

If not for the last line then Renault Kiger/Nissan Magnite (not driven one).

If you are OK with a hatchback then the i20 N-line but personally I am not a huge fan of Hyundai.

[SmartCat]

- When it comes to steering these days, you options are LIGHT, LIGHTER & LIGHTEST. I think all sub-4.5m vehicles have EPS nowadays. Harrier is the only car with hydraulic steering.

- Since your new purchase will be sparingly used, avoid cars with too many 'features', especially push button start and keyless entry. They suck up battery when idle.

- Rather than spend 15L on a new car, I think you should just exchange your SX4 with a pre-owned well maintained Honda Civic. 0 to 100 kmph in 9 secs, sharp weighty hydraulic steering, reliable and fun to drive. But before buying, check its history and make sure both the airbags have been replaced. Another option is pre-owned Punto Abarth/Linea T-Jet, but they are quite rare in the used car market.

- Hyundai i20 N-Line is worth a look too. Steering is supposed to be weightier than vanilla i20.

[Raghu M]

I don't know if the XUV3OO will tick all the boxes but the petrol MT is definitely a fun to drive car. It's peppy, has premium interiors and a stable safe car. Has good amount of features as well.

[karanddd]

Originally Posted by saisree

No offence, I would suggest to use Uber /OLA / rentals for those short requirements and save on that big money. You can buy it when you absolutely need it

Renting a car for 3 months will end up costing a ton, with the added headache of finding a decent one. I understand what you are saying. But for me the thing is I most likely do not ever need a car, it's purely a want thing. I wish to buy now because I have the money to spare now, and in 2-3 years may have additional responsibilities that preclude such a purchase. You only live once etc. etc.

Originally Posted by RavSam

The only fun analog car that comes to my mind is the MS S-Cross. Reasons: Service, build quality, sorted dynamics and good space (driven one).

If not for the last line then Renault Kiger/Nissan Magnite (not driven one).

If you are OK with a hatchback then the i20 N-line but personally I am not a huge fan of Hyundai.

If the N-line came with a genuine manual transmission, I would be seriously considering it right now. I have no idea why Hyundai has launched an enthusiast car without a proper 3 pedal manual. This obviously with the caveat that its steering is probably as dead and unresponsive as any other EPS. But without a manual, it doesn't muster another look at the moment. The S Cross looks good too. I just wish it had more power, like 120-130 bhp at least. The SX4 I have to replace makes 105 bhp, and the petrol S Cross exactly the same, which is kind of disappointing and wouldn't feel like much of an upgrade.

Originally Posted by chethan.ram

It would have been nice if you had mentioned the budget as well. Since you have mentioned about manual transmission, hydraulic power steering and also you are open for used option, I would say, Fiat Linea T-Jet which is sparing used if you can find one can be a good choice considering that you will be out of country on and off for the next 3 years. You will find a very good car at a very good price. The fun of driving that you are looking for, you won't be disappointed. It will be very light on your pocket now. Once you are back in the country permanently, you can go for a brand new car.

Oh I mentioned in the title, I guess not in the post. 15 lakhs. Thank you for this suggestion! The T-Jet looks perfect. 120 odd bhp, hydraulic steering and manual transmission. I am gonna start browsing online for one. I suppose with Fiat not in the market and this being an old car, reliability would be a bit of a concern? Any suggestions as to what look for in T-Jets, and what sort of price range they are likely to fall in? If I find a good one that doesn't conk out on me, I could probably even use it for longer than 3 years. I don't really want a brand new car unless it's something very exciting.

Originally Posted by SmartCat

- When it comes to steering these days, you options are LIGHT, LIGHTER & LIGHTEST. I think all sub-4.5m vehicles have EPS nowadays. Harrier is the only car with hydraulic steering.

- Rather than spend 15L on a new car, I think you should just exchange your SX4 with a pre-owned well maintained Honda Civic. 0 to 100 kmph in 9 secs, sharp weighty hydraulic steering, reliable and fun to drive. But before buying, check its history and make sure both the airbags have been replaced. Another option is pre-owned Punto Abarth/Linea T-Jet, but they are quite rare in the used car market.

- Hyundai i20 N-Line is worth a look too. Steering is supposed to be weightier than vanilla i20.

Just saw this. The Civic! How could I forget. I think Civic / T-Jet / Punto Abart seem like my best options. The Fiats tug at the heart a bit more as they're a less common sight and more visually attractive.

[chethan.ram]

Originally Posted by karanddd

Oh I mentioned in the title, I guess not in the post. 15 lakhs. Thank you for this suggestion! The T-Jet looks perfect. 120 odd bhp, hydraulic steering and manual transmission. I am gonna start browsing online for one. I suppose with Fiat not in the market and this being an old car, reliability would be a bit of a concern? Any suggestions as to what look for in T-Jets, and what sort of price range they are likely to fall in? If I find a good one that doesn't conk out on me, I could probably even use it for longer than 3 years. I don't really want a brand new car unless it's something very exciting.

Fiat not being there in India sometimes causes some wait time for parts, but if you get a decent one, you will most likely not have issues. You may find a face lifted T-Jet in the range of 3.5 to 4 lakhs.

[narayans80]

Going by your location Delhi, buying a car is like setting off an alarm clock. If you are going to be away most of the time for next 2-3 years, might as well put away the purchase for the time period and buy when you'd use the most.

Whenever you plan to buy, fun and low risk (unfortunately) don't go hand-in-hand. Either you get something like S-Cross which is low risk by commuter or Abarth Punto that are on the other extreme

[redCherry]

Originally Posted by karanddd

Things that help (but may not all be achievable): 3 pedal manual transmission, hydraulic power steering, small size

With these requirements, you are only left with very few options.
As as been suggested by others, Linea T-jet or Abarth Punto comes close.
But, they have their own issues too.

Only other option I can think of, based on your MT/HPS requirement is Renault Duster 1.3 Turbo. If you are considering Linea T-jet or Civic, Duster shouldn't be an issue as far as lenght is concerned.

[shancz]

- Civic : slightly longer but has everything else that you need

- XUV300 : FTD turbo petrol, the steering although not hydraulic has options of changing the feel on the fly by 3 levels. Do take a TD, even if you don't buy it at least would be good to try it out.
Rumours of a more powerful XUV300 with 130+ bhp have been going around but no real ETA.

[androdev]

You will have to make some compromises, I don't think there is a car with "point-and-shoot" dimensions, hydraulic (or heavier EPS) steering and other things you mentioned. You have not mentioned where you are going to drive (city or highways) - I assume it will be mainly within city.

If you consider fun per rupee, I don't think anything will come even remotely close to Polo GT DSG once you add paddles to the steering wheel. Yes VW steering is ultra light but they are not vague - unfortunately heavy steerings are available only in old Fiats and BMWs. Fiat lacks overall finesse and support, BMW is not exactly a point-and-shoot car and also comes with big bills.

If you don't care about the badge of BMW/Mini, I suggest you approach Polo GT DSG with an open mind. If you add paddles, you can't NOT enjoy the car. You can always get stuff like suspension, brakes etc easily tweaked. That engine+gearbox with paddles is the stuff that has no business to be in sub-10L car.

Once you drive DSG (VW DQ200) or BMW ZF8 or Porsche PDK transmissions the way they are meant to be (spots manual with paddle shifts), you will not miss manual transmission. This DQ200 in a Polo makes all rich owners of BMWs and Porsches sulk - it is phenomenal on Indian streets.

[karanddd]

Originally Posted by redCherry

With these requirements, you are only left with very few options.
As as been suggested by others, Linea T-jet or Abarth Punto comes close.
But, they have their own issues too.

Only other option I can think of, based on your MT/HPS requirement is Renault Duster 1.3 Turbo. If you are considering Linea T-jet or Civic, Duster shouldn't be an issue as far as lenght is concerned.

The Duster is taking me pretty far from the point and shoot criterion but I suppose I do need to give in one respect or another. I'll give it a test drive for sure. Thank you for the suggestion, it wouldn't have been on my radar otherwise.

Originally Posted by shancz

- Civic : slightly longer but has everything else that you need

- XUV300 : FTD turbo petrol, the steering although not hydraulic has options of changing the feel on the fly by 3 levels. Do take a TD, even if you don't buy it at least would be good to try it out.
Rumours of a more powerful XUV300 with 130+ bhp have been going around but no real ETA.

Same concern as with the Duster re. XUV 300, but I suppose I can give it a shot.

Originally Posted by androdev

You will have to make some compromises, I don't think there is a car with "point-and-shoot" dimensions, hydraulic (or heavier EPS) steering and other things you mentioned. You have not mentioned where you are going to drive (city or highways) - I assume it will be mainly within city.

If you consider fun per rupee, I don't think anything will come even remotely close to Polo GT DSG once you add paddles to the steering wheel. Yes VW steering is ultra light but they are not vague - unfortunately heavy steerings are available only in old Fiats and BMWs. Fiat lacks overall finesse and support, BMW is not exactly a point-and-shoot car and also comes with big bills.

If you don't care about the badge of BMW/Mini, I suggest you approach Polo GT DSG with an open mind. If you add paddles, you can't NOT enjoy the car. You can always get stuff like suspension, brakes etc easily tweaked. That engine+gearbox with paddles is the stuff that has no business to be in sub-10L car.

Once you drive DSG (VW DQ200) or BMW ZF8 or Porsche PDK transmissions the way they are meant to be (spots manual with paddle shifts), you will not miss manual transmission. This DQ200 in a Polo makes all rich owners of BMWs and Porsches sulk - it is phenomenal on Indian streets.

I appreciate the suggestion but I just don't like automatics. It's not about the shifting speed or accuracy, I bet those are great, but rather about the feel, the vibes on the gear level, the satisfying click of slotting into a gear, the ability to rev as much as you like without the car taking over. My only experience of this kind of transmission has been on a Cayenne S that I drove for a bit in Europe and I didn't love it. Maybe I should give the Polo another TD.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. And I suppose those of you saying that buying a car in Delhi right now is a bad idea are probably on to something. I may be able to move somewhere else in 2-3 years but it depends on factors out of my control at the moment. In any case, I'll TD some more cars and keep an eye on used Civics, T-Jets and the like.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by karanddd

I appreciate the suggestion but I just don't like automatics. It's not about the shifting speed or accuracy, I bet those are great, but rather about the feel, the vibes on the gear level, the satisfying click of slotting into a gear, the ability to rev as much as you like without the car taking over. My only experience of this kind of transmission has been on a Cayenne S that I drove for a bit in Europe and I didn't love it. Maybe I should give the Polo another TD.

I understand your preference for MT and don't want to make it a MT vs AT post but just want to clarify that DQ200/ZF8/PDK with paddle shifters can be driven in fully manual mode that is very intuitive and engaging like a manual transmission. Driver will have to do all the shifting work and decision making (just that you will use paddles instead of clutch/lever), the computer won't shift for you even if the engine crosses redline.

I am not saying it is better than MT but there is more to DQ200 than what most people assume. It does take some practice and learning to drive it in manual mode though (paddle shifts are necessary).

[agambhandari]

Any MT car other than a Honda/Suzuki would have a worse gearbox than what you have and won't be fun enough. Especially true in a car like the T jet.
Drive the new Honda city if you are dead set on a manual.

DSG cars though are the best combination of driving fun and practicality. Honestly, What I've found is that I'm more likely to drive an AT car harder and have more fun than a MT because it's easier and I'll do it more often. For gunning an MT you need to be on it all the time.