[krishnakumar]

Hello BHPians!

I'm looking for a car at ~15L (max 16L) OTR for my first car ownership. While I'm new to car ownership, I've been driving cars for 10+ years now and have driven a variety of cars during this period.

Requirements

The one-line requirement goes as this: "a car that'll get us around comfortably on highways and broken roads for long road trips and weekend mall crawls with occasional city usage".

The car will be primarily used by me and my wife (and hopefully a future dog) most of the time. However, we'll have our siblings and parents visit us 2-3 times a year. Hence, rear seat comfort, while not critical, is not to be ignored completely. I'm also expecting an annual mileage of 15,000km.

Some basic checklist features that I noted down based on above:

1. High on safety
2. Great highway stability
3. High Ground Clearance - so ruling out sedans
4. Diesel engine - to keep the fuel costs low
5. Good practical boot size for carrying all the luggage around
6. Few comfort features that support highway usage like - Cruise control, practical cabin for storage of phone, bottles etc.

The Shortlist

The current cars under consideration are (in the order of priority):

1. Tata Nexon 1.5D XZ+(S)
2. Kia Sonet GTX Plus 1.5D

Car that came close:

Mahindra XUV3OO W8(O) - due to a lack of rear AC vent and a poor boot space, we're not very keen on this despite being a strong contender otherwise. This will be our only steed for a good time to come so we do not want to be in a position that makes us feel disappointed.


Used cars are a strict no from my wife.

The Assessment

I did the test drive for both Nexon and Sonet, both manual. Up until this point, I was mostly clear on getting the Nexon, however, with the test drive things kind of changed.

Important: The Nexon TD vehicle was at 18k on ODO and the SA mentioned that it was due servicing at 15K which wasn't done. He also mentioned that there are issues with clutch and brake pads which are due replacements. There was also a "low" warning on the Nexon TPMS for the left front tyre.

Performance: In the performance department, the Sonet clearly felt better than the Nexon. It got up to speeds quickly and found it to have lesser turbo lag than Nexon. However, the Nexon SA mentioned that the lag is due to the clutch problem. I also found the Nexon engine to be very unrefined compared to the Sonet's. Again, the SA mentioned that Nexon is due for servicing and the gravelly engine is due to that. I'm planning to take another TD for the Nexon, but I suppose the Sonet would still win in terms of refinement and overall performance.

Verdict: Sonet > Nexon

Ride handling and dynamics: The Nexon was quite jiggly/bouncy at low speed rides but rounded off bumps quite smoothly. No jarring movements on bumps or potholes. I found the steering to be a little too heavy even at low speeds and found it to be strange. I have driven the Nexon BS4 for ~1000km and never found it this way. The SA said the steering is like this - did they change it in the facelift? The Sonet again won this department, although the ride quality on broken roads were jarring due to the stiff suspension. Steering felt light enough for city movements but with reassurance. Couldn't check if the steering weighs up nicely at higher speeds (since we were in city limits) but the SA confirmed that it does.

Verdict: Sonet > Nexon

Interiors and Ergonomics: The Nexon and Sonet, both, had comfortable seating for the driver and rear seats as well. My wife said that the Sonet had far better interiors, quite obviously. She was also concerned with the cleaning and maintenance of fabric seats on Nexon. The Sonet, since it has ventilated seats, scored far superior to Nexon. My family calls me a polar bear - I start sweating even at regular temperatures for most people and hence, the ventilated seats is a very usable feature for me. Overall practicality of the cabin was also better in the Sonet. For example, there is no place to put your phone in the Nexon (apart from your own pocket - is it for more safety?). But I found it weird that the only spot to keep the phone was that cover for the cup holders - which means we can't have both. Also, the phone wire would cross the gear knob and I found this to be an overall poor design. The small recess near the ports aren't big enough for most smartphone these days. These aspects are much better designed on the Sonet. Another quirk with Nexon was that the gear knob was far too much in the front, such that I'd have to reach for it - but I'm discounting this as I'm sure I'll get used to this in some time.

Verdict: Sonet >> Nexon

Safety: Now here is were the tables turn. We don't know for sure how much the Sonet will score if crash tested, but if we were going with anything that's available as public information about the Korean twins, it is that the structural integrity is poor compared to the Nexon. While I know that the facelifted Nexon hasn't been crash tested, it can be reasonably assumed that the new car doesn't have too many body changes and hence would score well.

Verdict: Nexon > Sonet

The Confusion

While as per my test drive the Sonet scores higher for both Performance and Handling, I'm not sure if this will hold up because on paper the Nexon has better mechanical fundamentals. I understand that it could be because the Nexon TD vehicle was due service and requiring a couple of mechanical replacements. However, even if I'm just considering the Sonet individually, its performance and handling satisfied me to my needs.

Which leads me to the real confusion - the Sonet is a clear winner in terms of comfort, whereas the Nexon is a likely winner in terms of safety. In terms of safety equipment though I'm getting more from the Sonet (6 airbags) but I understand that airbags alone don't mean anything.

In terms of after sales support, I'm not sure which would fare better. On one hand, I have Kia which is likely to push me stuff that I don't need and on the other hand, there is TASS which is likely to not do stuff that I push them to do.

Both the dealers agreed to let me do the PDI along with their staff before the VIN registration and final payment, although both of them requested for the down payment to be done at the time of allotment (which I found reasonable - thoughts from BHPians?).

I'm fully confused and my constant bickering about this has made my wife lose her head. She's saying pick anything and be done with it.

My brethren, kindly help me!

[zandot]

As someone who has purchased a Kia (seltos) and a Tata (nexon ev) within the past year, I would urge you to consider the Kia as Tata after sales is a nightmare.

Kia also has their shortfalls in terms of their sales advisors riding high on their brands success - not give a damn attitude as their vehicles will sell regardless, their brand new service centers and after sales are much stronger than Tata.

Also imho Kia is a superior product in terms of the build quality.

[krishnakumar]

Thanks Zandot!

Originally Posted by zandot

Kia also has their shortfalls in terms of their sales advisors riding high on their brands success - not give a damn attitude as their vehicles will sell regardless

Well, Tatas wasn't far behind either tbh. Because of the chip shortage (and the fact that Nexon is the most selling CSUV), they are playing very hard. No discounts, no accessories or anything. I had to call 3 different showrooms and follow up for a week to get a single test drive of Nexon and that too the vehicle I got as explained in the post was due for servicing with multiple parts at end of life. But at least he was ready to match the insurance while Kia guy flat out refused for matching the insurance as well.

their brand new service centers and after sales are much stronger than Tata.

How has your experience been with Kia? I have heard Kia service centers doing wheel balancing (and other stuff) without requests or even when refused, threatening customers that warranty could be void etc. Have you faced such issues?

[abhishek46]

Since the Nexon TD vehicle that you tested was a faulty one, I would strongly recommend that you take another Test Drive, at some other dealership.

You can consider the Venue as well.
Its the same as the Sonet, however Hyundai After Sales is arguably better than Kia.

Also, since you are already nearing 16lakh budget, why not consider the Mid variants of Creta/Seltos Diesels?

[Mafia]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

Since the Nexon TD vehicle that you tested was a faulty one, I would strongly recommend that you take another Test Drive, at some other dealership.

+1

Find a dealer who has a newer vehicle. Test ride in a couple of showrooms if required before you make up your mind.

Tata's have a bad set of sales reps in my experience.

The after-sales service of both brands is struggling to keep up with the surging sales. Just today, I was reading about Tata's struggles. Kia is not faring much better.

Not an easy choice to make if you are thinking a lot without test rides. See if you can meet owners in your friends or relatives circle. Rent them if available in Zoom cars or some such. I chat up random strangers if there is a chance to get a better perspective in traffic signals or parking lots.

Please do let us know of your choice when you do make it.

Apologies for not helping.

[zandot]

Yes I agree, Tata sales guys are also quite bad. If it wasn't for the Nexon EV I wouldn't have bothered pursuing. They might play hardball but show them you are ready to put down the deposit there and then and you will get a few basic accessories out of them. For example I got rubber floor mats & mud flaps and cheap perfume thrown in but had to change the cheap rubber mats within a month of usage as they completely disintegrated and made the car stink. Perfume was also thrown out within an hour due to the poor quality smell.

Not many dealerships are giving any offers at the moment other than trade-in deals that I am aware of, with the festive season upcoming keep an eye in the newspapers as they might offer something.

Yes Kia does constantly push me for wheel balancing/rotation full interior wash etc but a firm no usually gets them to back off from the extras.

You might be different but a little up-selling to me is a lot less problematic than having no service appointment for 3-4 weeks (there's a separate thread for this that's been recently posted). And when any vehicle issues do occur, you will need to fight tooth and nail with multiple SC visits to get these rectified at Tata. I finally managed to get my boot lock replaced (a known issue on the Nexon) which started occurring within a week or purchasing the vehicle, after fighting for almost 3 months and having to loop in Tata heads of departments and posting complaints on twitter regarding the poor service offered by the dealer etc etc.

Most Tata dealers simply don't have the bandwidth to deal with anything other than a basic service as they are over stretched. I would just call up your local SC and pretend to be an owner and ask how long is the current waiting time for a service - if you're lucky then your dealership will be one without too much strain then only I might consider going for a Tata.

Kia on the other hand are very good with their support - they have brand new shiny new state of the art service centres with plenty of staff. I recently had to get my windscreen replaced due to a faulty toll gate barrier at the Bandra end of Sea Link and the car was picked up and dropped off within 24 hours with full insurance handled by them.

Kia troubled me a little too as my RC took around 9 months to come as they "forgot" to upload my HSRP photos but overall from the ownership point of view in terms of service and after sales support, Kia is the clear winner for the time being.

Originally Posted by krishnakumar

Thanks Zandot!



Well, Tatas wasn't far behind either tbh. Because of the chip shortage (and the fact that Nexon is the most selling CSUV), they are playing very hard. No discounts, no accessories or anything. I had to call 3 different showrooms and follow up for a week to get a single test drive of Nexon and that too the vehicle I got as explained in the post was due for servicing with multiple parts at end of life. But at least he was ready to match the insurance while Kia guy flat out refused for matching the insurance as well.



How has your experience been with Kia? I have heard Kia service centers doing wheel balancing (and other stuff) without requests or even when refused, threatening customers that warranty could be void etc. Have you faced such issues?

[krishnakumar]

Thanks Abhishek!

Originally Posted by abhishek46

Since the Nexon TD vehicle that you tested was a faulty one, I would strongly recommend that you take another Test Drive, at some other dealership.

Originally Posted by Mafia

Find a dealer who has a newer vehicle. Test ride in a couple of showrooms if required before you make up your mind.

Yes! I do plan to take another test drive and have arranged for it. Not going to strike off Nexon until I'm sure of it.

Originally Posted by abhishek46

You can consider the Venue as well.

Also, since you are already nearing 16lakh budget, why not consider the Mid variants of Creta/Seltos Diesels?

Somehow, we didn't like the look of Venue. A little too plain I guess? There is no connection we could get with it or let's say "love" it. Apart from that, no other reason.

Creta/Seltos aren't considered due to a combination of factors. The mid-variants that would fit the budget are the HTK or E which (1) lack a few important safety kit like EBD, ESP, TC (2) a few convenience features like cruise control, reverse camera are missed out (3) we really aren't in need of a bigger vehicle. So everything put together it made sense to look at a lower segment but higher variant that has everything we would need. Hope it makes sense.

Originally Posted by Mafia

See if you can meet owners in your friends or relatives circle. Rent them if available in Zoom cars or some such. I chat up random strangers if there is a chance to get a better perspective in traffic signals or parking lots.

A very close friend of mine has recently taken the delivery of Sonet HTX but the petrol iMT variant. They're not very well versed with cars and theirs was the regular "car looks good let's buy" approach that the world outside of TBHP takes. But I plan to discuss with them how their experience has been overall. The guy who parks next to our parking lot also has a Sonet diesel so a discussion is pending with him, we don't know them well as we just recently moved in.

Originally Posted by zandot

You might be different but a little up-selling to me is a lot less problematic than having no service appointment for 3-4 weeks (there's a separate thread for this that's been recently posted). And when any vehicle issues do occur, you will need to fight tooth and nail with multiple SC visits to get these rectified at Tata.

Thanks for these insights! Really does help. I'm in the same cohort as yours. A little upselling is fine but constantly following up stuff isn't my cup of tea as both my wife and I have a busy schedule.

Would be awesome if you can share that Tata service thread if you have bookmarked it! I'll go through it to get some details.

[Kick'OKicks]

For ₹15 lakhs budget after festival discounts and other usual exchange bonus, one can get Nissan Kicks Turbo CVT or Turbo MT. If you don't bother about Turbo you may get 1.5 NA XV or XV Premium substantially at lower price points like ₹11 lakhs range. Kicks is a bigger SUV in the segment, dimension wise though interiors may give you different perspective, especially the rear seat spacing.

Nissan Kicks doesn't have the Sun Roof and flashy interiors but I feel 1.5 XV P range has better dual tone interiors than its top end variant. The Mercedes Engine fitted in the Turbo editions gives you the best ride quality. The I-SPVT intelligent suspension ensures minimum or no body rolls, its safety features like Hill Start Assist, Traction Control, Electronic stability program are very important safety features generally available only in the ₹20-₹22 lakhs variants from other car makers.

My Kicks Turbo CVT gives me maximum of 19-21 kmpl on Highway if you keep the RPM below 2000 and maintain speed between 80-90. City driving gives me around 13 KMPL maximum. Driving Kicks CVT in the city traffic gives absolute peace of mind by leaving your legs from clutch workings and hands from gear shifting.

My best wishes for you in choosing your best vehicle!!

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by krishnakumar

Hello BHPians!

I'm looking for a car at ~15L (max 16L) OTR for my first car ownership. While I'm new to car ownership, I've been driving cars for 10+ years now and have driven a variety of cars during this period.

Requirements

The one-line requirement goes as this: "a car that'll get us around comfortably on highways and broken roads for long road trips and weekend mall crawls with occasional city usage".

The car will be primarily used by me and my wife (and hopefully a future dog) most of the time. However, we'll have our siblings and parents visit us 2-3 times a year. Hence, rear seat comfort, while not critical, is not to be ignored completely. I'm also expecting an annual mileage of 15,000km.

Some basic checklist features that I noted down based on above:

1. High on safety
2. Great highway stability
3. High Ground Clearance - so ruling out sedans
4. Diesel engine - to keep the fuel costs low
5. Good practical boot size for carrying all the luggage around
6. Few comfort features that support highway usage like - Cruise control, practical cabin for storage of phone, bottles etc.

This used to be a very crowded segment earlier with S Cross, Ertiga, Ecosport, etc. but now the market has changed and I daresay for the worse.

Anyways, since you're doing only 15k kms per year, why the fetish for diesel? I mean, why won't you consider a VW Taigun which starts at about 11 lacs ex showroom? The car is refined, and suits your other requirements. Plus the money you save purchase and in the service costs of a petrol engine should help even out the price advantage of diesel fuel bills.

Good luck with your purchase.

[krishnakumar]

Originally Posted by Kick'OKicks

My Kicks Turbo CVT gives me maximum of 19-21 kmpl on Highway if you keep the RPM below 2000 and maintain speed between 80-90. City driving gives me around 13 KMPL maximum.

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Anyways, since you're doing only 15k kms per year, why the fetish for diesel?

Plus the money you save purchase and in the service costs of a petrol engine should help even out the price advantage of diesel fuel bills.

Thank you both for sharing your thoughts. Addressing together since both of them involve me opening up to a petrol engine.

The reason why I picked Diesel was because of the reliable fuel figures they deliver for highways/city compared to the new age Turbo petrols which I find to be too sensitive to input. I'm fairly confident that the two options that I put on the list (Nexon/Sonet) can fetch 20-22kmpl on highways. I'm not sure if the same can be said for Turbo petrols. A few friends and relatives who own turbo petrols get figures only close to 10-13kmpl even with a light foot. I'm not going for NA engines because I like the low end torque.

Some rudimentary modelling gave me total savings of 3-4L all considered with the diesel at an annual running of 15000km for a life of 6-7 years. I may not be accurate here, but everything put together it just made sense to go for diesel.

If I were to open upto a turbo petrol, I do understand that it opens up a few more good options.

Originally Posted by Kick'OKicks

For ₹15 lakhs budget after festival discounts and other usual exchange bonus, one can get Nissan Kicks Turbo CVT or Turbo MT.

The Mercedes Engine fitted in the Turbo editions gives you the best ride quality. The I-SPVT intelligent suspension ensures minimum or no body rolls, its safety features like Hill Start Assist, Traction Control, Electronic stability program are very important safety features generally available only in the ₹20-₹22 lakhs variants from other car makers.

This sounds really interesting. I'll make sure to test drive the car. Combined with the fuel figures that you're claiming, it might make it a bargain when all factors are considered.

Although, I'd like to point out that both Nexon and Sonet GTX Plus (that I'm considering) get ESP, TC, EBD etc. So these are at parity.

[SenPai_GTi]

Originally Posted by krishnakumar

The reason why I picked Diesel was because of the reliable fuel figures they deliver for highways/city compared to the new age Turbo petrols

Well, that is true. The 1.5L Nexon diesel at my native place gives an astonishing figure.

(PS: I just clicked the photo, I wasn't driving it)


BUT

You should also consider the servicing and maintenance costs in the long run. The only issues with our car so far were clutch and A/C coolant leakage. Other than that, the costs were controlled, mainly due to the fact that it had high running and shell diesel filled in it. Also we were lucky that the car dispatched to us was fault free.

Just make sure that you thoroughly inspect the mechanics of the vehicle. Also you should have a good ASS near you. Then you be rest assured that the Nexon will be a great purchase. Can't say much about the Kia cause I haven't experienced it yet.

[ynike99]

Out of the two, I would consider the Sonet. When I made my purchase of Seltos, I had considered all the 4-4.4m cars(Diesel) for the same reason as yours, that I love low end torque. The engine/gearbox combo of Kia Diesel in both Manual and Auto is something to be experienced. Nexon was in my short list right till the top 3 cars(Others were Seltos and Creta Old gen). But somehow after multiple TDs, I could find some fault with all the TD cars. Some niggle/Ergonomic issues etc used to crop up every time, whereas Creta/Kia were pretty consistent throughout.
Regarding Kia on service front, its really good till date. Service is timely and proper, Parts are stocked well and its generally a good experience at service center.

[M5_fan]

Hi Krishna Kumar,

I was in the same boat as you with the requirements being the same except for a petrol engine instead of diesel.

What I recommend you to do is check out the Honda WR-V iDtec VX. It matches all the requirements that you have stated.

You also get tons of space, Honda reliability and very good dynamics in addition to your list.

What you won't like are
1. The integrated rear headrests
2. Slight engine noise
3. No rear ac vents (not necessary as the AC is rather good)

Do take a test drive and let us know what you think.

Also, if you are going to choose between Nexon & Sonet only, then i believe safety should get extra marks and hence for that I would choose the Nexon.

[AYP]

Sonet is definitely the more all rounded car of the two. Your opening post more or less confirms that even you feel the same way.

The thing is, if you go for the Nexon, you will keep thinking about the well rounded Sonet which you let go for better safety whereas if you go for Sonet, you will keep thinking about its dubious safety ratings and Nexon's 5 star rating. Both the thoughts are sure to make you uncomfortable. Ultimately, it is you who has to decide which option will make you more comfortable/satisfied.

My pick would be the Sonet for its superior engine and gearbox combo with the extra features and a better cabin being a cherry on top.

[Col Mehta]

While my vote goes to Sonet, I would also keep BS6 diesel DPF issues in mind. BS6 implementation has handicapped diesel engines. No doubt about it. If your running isn't a lot, I would rather suggest turbo petrols. They offer almost similiar torque and fun to drive factor. The only big bummer is their poor FE under spirited driving.

My son has also booked Sonet diesel AT GTX Plus as he wanted to get a good diesel engine before they are phased out entirely, but he is a little nervous with all those reported DPF issues. He has thus booked Creta SX(O) IVT if he decides to not buy a diesel at all.

Good luck and I hope you find the right car for yourself.