[Viju]

Hello guys

So our faithful little Swift is turning 7, and has a long life ahead of it, at just 37000 km on the odo. Having said that, the kids are growing up fast, and we don't like to travel light on our road trips. Moreover, with the new found love for cycling, I would like to have the provision to mount a couple of full sized bikes on the roof.

As I don't intend to take a loan, my budget is strictly limited. I love station wagons, and this would be our first. I am in the middle of a job change, and can wait for a few months as well.

Must have:

• 2015 or later
• Non-smoking
• With service records, no accident history
• Good driving dynamics
• ESC + 6 airbags
• Climate control
• Adaptive cruise control
• iPhone compatible audio system
• Power seat (at least driver side)
• Rear view camera with guidelines
• Reliable (we will keep it for at least 5 years, 50000 km)
• Solid build, doors and trunk closing with a nice thud

Good to have:

• 200 bhp
• Lane keep assist, Emergency brake assist
• Heated seats, heated steering
• Memory seat on driver side (will make life a bit easy as both me and wifey drive regulary)
• Apple Car Play
• Powered tail-gate
• 360 degree camera
• Sunroof

I wish for a European car, hence ignoring the Mazdas and Subarus for now. Also ignoring the odd DS5, as I am not ready to go French just yet. I also don't like the looks of the CLA Shooting Brake. There is no Skoda brand in Japan.

I have listed down my options, in no particular order. Do note that all the cars are Automatics and Gasoline (Manuals and Diesels are hard to find here). I have also ignored a couple of sedans due to the less practical boot (Passat R-line and C180 Avantgarde).

2015 BMW 523i Touring Luxury



Concerns:

• - 2000cc engine
• - Run-flats (I will replace them to regular tyres if I buy any BMW)
• - Expensive spare parts
• - Beige interiors (at least the one I have short-listed)
• + Memory seats with heating
• + Space is one size more than some of the others

2015 BMW 320i Touring

• - 2000cc engine
• - Run-flats (I will replace them to regular tyres if I buy any BMW)
• - Expensive spare parts
• - Space
• + Lane keep assist, Blind spot detection

2015 Audi A4 Avant 2.0 TFSi

• - 2000cc engine
• - DSG reliability
• - Looks a bit generic

2015 VW Golf Variant 1.4 Highline

• - 1400cc engine
• - DSG reliability
• - Looks a bit dated
• + Memory seat with heating
• + Lane keep assist, blind spot detection

2016 VW Passat Variant 1.4 Highline

• - 1400cc engine
• - DSG reliability
• + Memory seat with heating
• + Lane keep assist, blind spot detection
• + I think the car looks elegant and will not age too quickly

2015 Volvo V60 T5 SE

• - 2000cc engine
• - Outdated looks (exteriors and interiors)
• + Sunroof
• + Memory seat

I would love to have your inputs on this, especially from those who have ownership experience of these Europeans.

Thanks in advance!

[Gannu_1]

Thread moved to the What Car? section!

Happy hunting Viju ett!

[Viju]

Originally Posted by Gannu_1

Happy hunting Viju ett!

Thank you, Ganesh!

Bumping this thread up hoping to get some advice from the BHP-ians.

[Sreesh1009]

I would go with the BMW 523i touring. BMWs are one of the most reliable brands from the big 3. The 523i in the picture looks gorgeous and if there's one thing I've seen, BMWs never look outdated, they age well.

Hope this helps(?).

[Viju]

Originally Posted by Sreesh1009

I would go with the BMW 523i touring. BMWs are one of the most reliable brands from the big 3. The 523i in the picture looks gorgeous and if there's one thing I've seen, BMWs never look outdated, they age well.

Hope this helps(?).

Thank you, Sreesh1009!

I love the 5 series as well. Just worried that it may feel too underpowered with the 2000cc engine. Having read several comments from the F30 owners in the forum, including GTO, I am wondering if not having the bigger six cylinder engine is a deal breaker with the 5 series.



Although I have never owned a BMW myself, having dealt with several BMW motorcycles (especially the higher end ones) at the work place, I have always found the spare parts prices to be eye-watering. This is also a concern at the back of my mind.

[ajmat]

Your requirement is primarily space. It would be the Audi due to the engine size otherwise would advise the Passat if you can get a 2 litre version. The Golf would be a little small but it is popular in Japan. The 5 series is also worthy but will be slow. Again, being Japan, speed limits are low and regulated.

BTW - how will you face the "Shaken" test, with a German car, it will be like going to the dentist - pain on both pocket and self!

[GTO]

I have a suggestion = NONE ! There is a reason that station wagons are a dying breed today. Crossovers offer you all that space & practicality, with a lot more positives (style, higher seating, AWD possibility etc.). Plus, with crossovers & SUVs, you'll have more choice because of the sheer sales volumes they do.

If you are absolutely keen on an estate, I'd go with the F10 5-Series because I know its superb reliability.

[Viju]

Originally Posted by ajmat

Your requirement is primarily space. It would be the Audi due to the engine size otherwise would advise the Passat if you can get a 2 litre version. The Golf would be a little small but it is popular in Japan. The 5 series is also worthy but will be slow. Again, being Japan, speed limits are low and regulated.

Thank you, ajmat!

Yes, being in Japan, high speeds are not a requirement. It's only recently that they increased the limit to 120 kph on some expressways! Still, with a family of four and a full load of luggage, I wouldn't want the car to be struggling to go up some nice twisties or do a quick overtaking maneuver on the fast lane. Looks like what I really need is torque and not horsepower!

I can try harder to find a Passat Variant 2.0 R-Line within my budget. Second option would be the A4 Avant with the 2.0 TFSi. Is the DSG in these 2 litre versions reliable?

The 5 series Touring with a proper 6 cyl engine is a real rarity in Japan.

Originally Posted by ajmat

BTW - how will you face the "Shaken" test, with a German car, it will nee like going to the dentist - pain on both pocket and self!

I like how you put it!

'Shaken' should be manageable, even with German cars (My 日本語 is good enough to get the shaken done myself, if the neighboring Autobacs store proves to be too costly). I am more worried about some big failure which will render the car worthless, such as the transmission.

Originally Posted by GTO

I have a suggestion = NONE !

Hello GTO! I totally get what you're saying. But having owned only hatchbacks and a minivan until now, I would love to own a proper sedan or station wagon before having to move on to an SUV / cross-over eventually.

But for all you know, I may end up with an SUV which ticks all the boxes and offers the additional advantage of 4x4 as well (for the occasional ski trip). Being in Japan, there is no dearth of reliable SUVs like Foresters or X-Trails in my budget, or even a previous gen CRV.

Originally Posted by GTO

If you are absolutely keen on an estate, I'd go with the F10 5-Series because I know its superb reliability.

Having gone through your F10 thread end-to-end several times over, I am a big fan of the car. With the added practicality of the big boot, I think the 5 series Touring will suit my requirements to a T!

Is there anything I should look for in particular when looking at a used F10?

[Sreesh1009]

Originally Posted by Viju

Thank you, Sreesh1009!

I love the 5 series as well. Just worried that it may feel too underpowered with the 2000cc engine. Having read several comments from the F30 owners in the forum, including GTO, I am wondering if not having the bigger six cylinder engine is a deal breaker with the 5 series.
I have always found the spare parts prices to be eye-watering. This is also a concern at the back of my mind.

Is there some way you can get the car remapped? I'm not sure how things work in Japan but maybe you can get the car and remap it for some more horses(?).

As far as spares are concerned, they're eye watering for any car of that league, no matter what. Just keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best I guess.

[viren83]

I love the 5 series as well. Just worried that it may feel too underpowered with the 2000cc engine.

Are you sure? I've owned both Petrol-powered F10 and G30 and the only word I have for them is 'FAST'.

Even BMW diesel-powered 2L cars never fall in the underpowered category.

If I were you, I'd however pick the Audi as their design/shape looks much better in estate forms.

[sodapop]

My suggestion would be the 523i, V60 and Passat in that order.

You clearly are in love with the F10. Power should be pretty sufficient although running costs would be a tad higher than others but then again, there's not a more perfect car in the list. Having a better car would also mean you don't have to upgrade in the near future.

Second would be V60 simply because you can't go wrong with a Volvo. It lacks the bling of others but the fundamentals are pretty much sorted out and will turn out to be a very dependable family car.

Thirdly the Passat. It's a really good one and you'll get one of the recent models with the latest tech. I'd say you take a test drive first and check if you find the power adequate enough. DSG reliability is iffy but I guess you'd have conditions more suited to DCTs in Japan than our tropical and chaotic ones(?)

Do keep the thread updated on what you get finally! Very interesting thread this

[Pacific]

I as well second the opinion of GTO. Instead of a station-wagon, why don't you look for a SUV? A RAV4 or a Prado from the Toyota stable?

[carthick1000]

Originally Posted by GTO

I have a suggestion = NONE ! There is a reason that station wagons are a dying breed today.

Try telling that to Europeans, esp.Germans

Getting back to the original question, I would suggest BMW F10, purely for it's driving pleasure and cabin space for passengers and luggage. I have driven a 2.0L F10 (520i) and to be honest, I did not find any lack of power. The cabin of F10s are a tad bit better insulated than the 3 series. Rear seats are roomy and the front seats and interior as a whole is well appointed. I would rather not compare them with VWs.

What is interesting (or a typo maybe in your post) that you mention F10 523i from 2015. Whereas according to wikipedia Germany (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_F10), 523i (with N53B30 engine) did not have a long run and was sold between 2010-2011. So if I guess correctly, you are looking at a 520i or 528i, both of which has 2.0L N20B20 engines with 520i, being the underpowered version of 528i. Both of these were sold between 2011 and 2017. Kindly double check your local seller.

Regarding maintenance and reliability, if you are hands on and find a Do-it-yourself garage / have your own space to do some maintenance, you can absolutely maintain BMWs for a decent (and not eye-atering!) cost. If you would like to take it to a garage or the BMW service center, then the prices might be higher due to the higher labour costs. Also check the prices of BMW spare parts in Germany, whether there is a price difference if you buy in Germany Vs Japan. I think both countries might have free trade agreements, which makes the spare prices almost same.

On a side note, I consider Japan (other than Germany) also as a holy grail of cars and why not checkout a Mazda 6 station AWD or Subaru Levorg. You can find parts cheaper, much more maintenance possibilities and IMHO Mazda 6 esp. is a very well engineered car. You might even find newer models in the used market for the same price as the cars in your list.

[chaudh2s]

Volvo V90 cross country. Absolute stunner!

[Viju]

Originally Posted by Sreesh1009

Is there some way you can get the car remapped?

Yes, this is definitely an option I could think of. Thanks for the idea!

Originally Posted by viren83

Are you sure? I've owned both Petrol-powered F10 and G30 and the only word I have for them is 'FAST'.

I am not! As I mentioned in my original post, my apprehensions are based on the numerous comments I have seen in the forum from owners who mention the 6 cyl engines as the 'must have' for the F10.

Originally Posted by viren83

If I were you, I'd however pick the Audi as their design/shape looks much better in estate forms.

Looks-wise, I love all of them. Size-wise, I would love to have the A6 Avant, but that's out of my budget.

Originally Posted by sodapop

My suggestion would be the 523i, V60 and Passat in that order.

Thank you. Somehow, between the looks of the V60 and Passat (exteriors and interiors), I prefer the straight lines of the Passat.

Originally Posted by sodapop

Do keep the thread updated on what you get finally! Very interesting thread this

Will do for sure! It's going to take a while though as we are going through a transition phase in our life here.

Originally Posted by Pacific

I as well second the opinion of GTO. Instead of a station-wagon, why don't you look for a SUV? A RAV4 or a Prado from the Toyota stable?

SUVs are the obvious choice. I love the RAV4 and Prado as well. But in spite of the cheap car loans in Japan (1.x% interest!), I try to buy liabilities paying cash. I love the CX-5 and CX-8 as well.

A new RAV4 or Prado costs 2x my budget. Even slightly used pre-owned ones cost too much, as Toyotas don't depreciate here in Japan either!

Originally Posted by carthick1000

Try telling that to Europeans, esp.Germans

Exactly! Having worked with a German component maker for the past decade, and having seen the numerous wagons during business trips to Germany, I am very much in love with them.

Originally Posted by carthick1000

Getting back to the original question, I would suggest BMW F10, purely for it's driving pleasure and cabin space for passengers and luggage. I have driven a 2.0L F10 (520i) and to be honest, I did not find any lack of power.

Thank you. The F10 seems to be the popular recommendation.

Originally Posted by carthick1000

What is interesting (or a typo maybe in your post) that you mention F10 523i from 2015.

Yes, it was a typo! And to be honest, I am not so well-versed when it comes to the BMW model codes.

Originally Posted by carthick1000

Regarding maintenance and reliability, if you are hands on and find a Do-it-yourself garage / have your own space to do some maintenance, you can absolutely maintain BMWs for a decent (and not eye-atering!) cost.

This is a problem. As an automotive engineer, I can definitely do the basic maintenance jobs myself. But believe it or not, it is not allowed to do it in my own parking lot as we bought an apartment, and not an independent house! It's not allowed to clean your car in the parking lot either, as the parking lot or the car parked next to yours may get dirty.

Originally Posted by carthick1000

On a side note, I consider Japan (other than Germany) also as a holy grail of cars and why not checkout a Mazda 6 station AWD or Subaru Levorg.

Yes, that will be my practical fall-back option for sure. I love the Mazda design language, although their wagons are not so popular in Japan. The Levorg sells a lot, but I find the interiors very basic. But the low-end torque on that boxer engine is delicious!

German cars are expensive here in Japan as well to buy brand new. But they depreciate like a rock. Hence I am able to find much more (apparently) VFM deals on Germans than the Japanese wagons.

Originally Posted by chaudh2s

Volvo V90 cross country. Absolute stunner!

Sigh! That's the dream, my friend. But again, costs 2.5x my budget. May be I should wait for 2 more years and wait for the V90 to depreciate to my budget.