[amalji]

I'm looking for a comfortable cruiser in the 20 lakhs range.

The options I have in mind are

• Toyota Corolla Altis CVT 1.8 VL Petrol
• Toyota Innova Crysta Z Automatic

Ideally, I would love to go for the Innova Crysta for the kind of flexibility it offers. But, I'm a bit skeptical for the following reasons.

• The risk of a diesel ban, especially since it's having that huge 2800 cc engine. And I live in Bangalore. My job profile will force me to stick with tier 1 cities in India.
• Very unlike a Toyota, the Innova Crysta has lots of niggles reported every where. Being Toyota, I might want to bet on Toyota getting all that sorted out within the warranty period. But, I somehow gets the feeling that with the Innova Crysta, Toyota has concentrated on flashiness rather than robustness. I might be wrong.

The concerns/doubts I have with the Corolla are

• Whether the seating comfort is as good as the Innova for long drives. I have people with knee issues in my family and the Innova middle row captain seats are one of the best around.
• How comfortable are the suspensions when compared to the Innova Crysta for long highway drives and moderately patchy city/country roads ?

PS: I plan to keep the vehicle for a long time. And hence cannot risk the Diesel ban. The only reason why I'm thinking of a new car is for an automatic and along with that, I'm just trying to rope in the comfort factor as well.

[msaudf]

This is the kind of situation where you do not compare the pros and cons of the car, as you have clearly mentioned you are looking at comfort. But, if a car has to be comfortable to drive or ride in, it has to comfortable to own as well. So I'll have to take back my statement about not looking at the pros and cons, but you'll end up looking at it anyhow to see if you are comfortable owning it.

Lets look at the innova crysta. Its design, not the exterior or the interior, But the engineering design. Its a MPV and its based on a body on frame design. I already can sense readers thinking "where's this dude going with this? Does it really matter? as long as its comfortable its alright." let me stop you right there. This particular format of building a vehicle is used because they maybe used in more rugged conditions and so it would last longer. And, the downside of this design format doesn't show up on our city drives or intercity drives, but only when you hit roads that are rough and rugged which are quite suited for this particular car type. These cars in general have a high GC and we all know how vibrations travel from the chassis of the vehicle to the ends that are not securly fastened, ie; seat head rests. No, I'm not talking about the body control when you take it to a sweeping road and hit corners at high speed, remember we're here for comfort. I dont know how many of you have experienced this but the innova with captain seats be it the older version or the crysta batter the hell of your brains with the co called head rest while travelling on rough roads. In the earlier post we see how comfortably that person is lying on the seats of the crysta, well try doing that while travelling at 90kmph on a country road.
If I was buying a car for comfort and had to take more than four people with me, I'd choose an MPV, but if its four or below passengers I'd choose a sedan which has ergonomically designed seats that provide adequate thigh support and has seats that may be sat on without having to climb up onto or bend down to dive into.
round one corolla 1 crysta 0

Now lets look into comfortable ownership.
You've heard of the niggles in the crysta, I guess they aren't to bad to iron out by a giant like toyota. They'll sort them out under warranty or might give you goodwill repairs in case of failures thereafter. Service costs have to be considered here. It can be easily found and is a well known fact that petrol powered cars are cheaper to maintain than diesels. I don't mean just the regular maintenance, but also factors like the tyres and all. so again round two corolla 2 crysta 0

Round 3 IMAGE!!
Innova Crysta = BIG CAR 7 seater
Corolla = Hmm somewhat big car (OHHH corolla) only 4 people no? Ahh Then small.

Innova Crysta = OHH NEW CAR. very good!! just like fortuner only no 4wd
Corolla = Toyota?? which one?? Ohh corolla, smaller than that Camry. ok ok (with a nod. side nod)
Round 3 Crysta 1 (with a bling) Corolla 2 (why did i even try)

Okay, I've probably confused you even some more but honestly, Dont buy both, Buy a sparingly used or maybe less than a year old Camry.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by amalji

• Whether the seating comfort is as good as the Innova for long drives. I have people with knee issues in my family and the Innova middle row captain seats are one of the best around.

I doubt a diesel ban would see any effect right now - and you should be secure for 10 years following which the car can be sold to a smaller town.

However, with the Innova and knee issues - keep in mind that ingress/egress will not be as comfortable as you still have to climb in to the car. However, once seated - the Corolla will not be able to match the comfort.

As for reliability - there are niggles, but Toyota is being quite pro-active about it.

[landcruiser123]

Budget and Size not being constraints, I would pick the Innova any day over the Corolla.

My dad flirted with the idea of buying a Corolla 10 years ago, but he stuck with the Innova for comfort and 8 seater option. 10 years later, the gap(power, features) between the 2 cars has decreased.

[bullet-tooth]

I was facing the same dilemma, except the diesel/petrol part. Innova seemed a better car for the money as it has more to offer in terms of Space, power(Diesel) and features. But couldn't move away from Sedan. Finally chucked the whole idea of an upgrade and staying strong with my SX4.
Anyway, the best way to evaluate the right car is to do Test drives and lot of them. Take your family along and get their inputs as well (Ingress/egress, back seat comfort etc.) All the best!

[ToyotaFan]

Innova vs corolla that's a conundrum Toyota will be happy to hear about. I would say the choice rests on

1. Primarily Urban city use vs Highway/rural use

2. Need for an occasional 6 seater

3. Aspirations of long road trips like Ladakh.

4. Monthly running in excess of let's say 2000km a month.

I think if you have a high running then the diesel ban should not be a concern as you would have already used the car enough before the ban applies. If your running is 2000km a month then the Innova at the end of 10years would be at 2.5 lakh kms which I can say is decent enough although these ladder on frame toyotas can go on for several times this. Corolla is good for primarily urban running with low running as you can keep the car for long. Spares should not be an issue although with the Innova I guess the support in the long term will be better considering it sell 5-6 times the corolla.

If answers to questions 2 and 3 is a yes I would say it's a no brainier the crysta is the car for you. Hope this helps.

[wildsdi5530]

Purely from a comfort point of view, the Corolla will win hands down. But why haven't you considered the Innova petrol? Best of both worlds..

[A M]

Like you said, you have people with knee issues in your house, Innova is the car you should buy. Its easier to get in/out and with a relatively higher seating position, the knee will bend less. Corolla will be a pain (literally) during ingress/egress.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Strictly between the two, I would rather you go for the Corolla. I have a couple of Crystas in my extended circle and both owners are not happy. Both of them were previous Innova owners and had brought the Crysta blindly, refusing to consider any other option. Dont let the fancy interior overwhelm you. Crysta is a pretty cost cut product, nothing like the previous gen Innova. Both guys are having to live with minor niggles, rattling panels, fading plastics and fraying seats. The cars are ageing very rapidly. Plus, the AT is pretty jerky and generally clueless. He is getting 7-8kmpl in Delhi traffic, and is not satisfied at all.

Corolla in that sense is a much better product considering you get proper quality for the money you are paying. Plus, the current Altis is totally proven and has been on sale for many years now with absolutely no issues. It is a fairly comfortable car with the added benefit of having less roll (low center of gravity) and more refinement (petrol). A better proposition for long distance cruising.

It is clear that you are limiting your options two the two Toyotas and are not open to considering anything else. Otherwise, Tata Hexa blows the pants off both Crysta and Corolla when it comes to ride comfort and sheer quality of seats. Most comfortable car under 30L, no questions asked. I suggest you do consider it.

[IshaanIan]

If absolute comfort and reliability are your main lookouts, I would suggest looking at a slightly used, 1 year old Nissan Teana or Toyota Camry. Drive in either of them and you will forget about Innova/Corolla.

Sorry if this post did not help you much, but I urge you to try out the ride in a big barge like the Camry or especially the Teana.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by msaudf

This is the kind of situation where you do not compare the pros and cons of the car, as you have clearly mentioned you are looking at comfort.
But, if a car has to be comfortable to drive or ride in, it has to comfortable to own as well. So I'll have to take back my statement about not looking at the pros and cons, but you'll end up looking at it anyhow to see if you are comfortable owning it.

There are other factors which I did consider like

• Reliable automatic transmission
• Whether the brand can be trusted in the long run ( 10+ years ) to take care of your vehicle and not shut shop in India like Chevrolet or Daewoo. With this filtering, the only brands that were left were Maruti, Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, Mahindra, TATA.
• Safety ( which is the only reason I'm forced to go for the top end variant. I don't care about the ambient lighting or the styling used in the alloy wheel. )
• Space ( If the passengers need to stretch their legs during a long drive, they should be able to do that even if 4 people are in the car. )
• torque availability at practical rpms.
• Reliability and robustness of the technology used ( I've owned an Etios for 6 years and 1.25 lakh kms and it has never spent a night at the service center except for accident repairs. And I never had to plan a day for 10,000 kms regular service. It's always done during my trips because the service gets completed in 1.5 hours flat! And the durability of parts are just amazing. The only unplanned replacement done till now - fuse ( after the car was driven on knee deep water ), 1 break bulb, 3-4 headlight bulbs since I use the less durable Philips Xtreme Vision plus and rear suspensions ( more of a proactive replacement than due to an issue. )
• Efficient and easy on the environment. I would have loved to think of a Corolla Hybrid if it was available. ( On this front, I'll feel a bit guilty if I'm forced to go for the 2800 cc Diesel )

Originally Posted by msaudf

And, the downside of this design format doesn't show up on our city drives or intercity drives, but only when you hit roads that are rough and rugged which are quite suited for this particular car type.

Atleast with the old Innova, I have travelled extensively in country roads which are not smooth and I felt, it gave one of the most comfortable rides by any vehicle cheaper than 25 lakhs. You can literally stampede on these roads without compromising on passenger comfort. I think, it's more to do with the combination of the wishbone suspension setup that Toyota uses and the kind of tuning they have done with it. Regardless, I'll be using it more than 95% of the time in city roads and inter city highways and that's when I need the comfort primarily. And it's for the same reason that I'm not considering any of the SUVs in the market. For the 1% off-roading that I might do, I still believe that a 25 year old Mahindra still does a better job than many of the 'SUVs' we have in the market for < 20 lakhs.

Originally Posted by msaudf

but if its four or below passengers I'd choose a sedan which has ergonomically designed seats that provide adequate thigh support and has seats that may be sat on without having to climb up onto or bend down to dive into.

It's 4 or below that I'm planning for. 5 will be a rarity. What I'm concerned about is the thigh support during long drives because that's what decides your knee comfort in long drives. As far as the driver seat is concerned, this factor is well taken care of due to the combination of seat adjustment controls, automatic gear box and cruise control. The passenger seat is what I'm worried about due to the lack of height adjustment controls. Probably, I'll take a Corolla Altis rent a car for a long drive to validate this.

Originally Posted by msaudf

Service costs have to be considered here. It can be easily found and is a well known fact that petrol powered cars are cheaper to maintain than diesels. I don't mean just the regular maintenance, but also factors like the tyres and all. so again round two corolla 2 crysta 0

The Diesel vs Petrol maintenance cost holds true for most brands. But, not with a Toyota. Toyota diesels are as inexpensive to maintain as a Petrol. Infact, the previous gen Innova Diesel was cheaper to maintain than a Corolla Altis Petrol ( because the brake pads used in Altis Petrol was very expensive and it has to replaced at much shorter intervals compared to the Innova ). Even Fortuner Diesel ( old gen ) maintenance costs will put to shame some of the Petrol sedan maintenance costs.

Originally Posted by msaudf

Round 3 IMAGE!!
Innova Crysta = BIG CAR 7 seater
Corolla = Hmm somewhat big car (OHHH corolla) only 4 people no? Ahh Then small.
Innova Crysta = OHH NEW CAR. very good!! just like fortuner only no 4wd
Corolla = Toyota?? which one?? Ohh corolla, smaller than that Camry. ok ok (with a nod. side nod)
Round 3 Crysta 1 (with a bling) Corolla 2 (why did i even try)

This is one area which I don't care about. Otherwise, I would have never been able to buy the Etios. The priorities for me are

• Ergonomics/Practicality wins over aesthetics/features
• Reliability/Durability wins over flashiness/bleeding edge technology
• Shape of the torque curve and where the torque is available more important than the BHP numbers
• Airiness and view of the outside more important than some of the weirdly designed rear windows for the sake of exterior looks. Even with the Crysta's 3rd row windows, I find this problem.
• Safety more important than the cost.

Originally Posted by msaudf

Okay, I've probably confused you even some more but honestly, Dont buy both, Buy a sparingly used or maybe less than a year old Camry.

Nice thought. The camry hybrid is a very interesting proposition. If I find a very good used car for a good price, I might go for it!

Originally Posted by lamborghini

I doubt a diesel ban would see any effect right now - and you should be secure for 10 years following which the car can be sold to a smaller town.

Is that 10 years a guarantee that we can rely on. I heard that government is planning for only EVs and hybrids by 2030. If things move at that pace, tier 1 cities might be forced to throw out big diesels.

Originally Posted by lamborghini

However, with the Innova and knee issues - keep in mind that ingress/egress will not be as comfortable as you still have to climb in to the car.

Good point. Will keep this in mind.

Originally Posted by bullet-tooth

Anyway, the best way to evaluate the right car is to do Test drives and lot of them. Take your family along and get their inputs as well (Ingress/egress, back seat comfort etc.) All the best!

The normal test drives is not long enough to test all that out. Probably, I'll take a rent a car with Corolla and Innova for a long drive and test all of this out.

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

1. Primarily Urban city use vs Highway/rural use
2. Need for an occasional 6 seater
3. Aspirations of long road trips like Ladakh.
4. Monthly running in excess of let's say 2000km a month.

1. Primarily City and Highway, with the occasional drive to country roads. Off roading will be rarity.
2. Not needed. I can opt for a rent a car/taxi, if at all needed.
3. Yes, but I've seen bhpians like Samba take his Etios Petrol to all sorts of roads in the country and the car still stays in great shape after close to 7 years
4. I was doing that during my younger days. But, it is coming down now. I do around 1500 kms a month these days.

Originally Posted by wildsdi5530

Purely from a comfort point of view, the Corolla will win hands down. But why haven't you considered the Innova petrol? Best of both worlds..

Petrol is not good for lugging heavy vehicles. And the Petrol engine in Innova doesn't look very capable as well. Add to that, the sluggish gearbox, you have a very inefficient and dull to drive car which I don't want to get stuck with for 10 to 15 years.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

It is clear that you are limiting your options two the two Toyotas and are not open to considering anything else. Otherwise, Tata Hexa blows the pants off both Crysta and Corolla when it comes to ride comfort and sheer quality of seats. Most comfortable car under 30L, no questions asked. I suggest you do consider it.

Agree with the comfort level of the Hexa. Again, I'm looking for 10 to 15 years of ownership. Even though the quality of TATA has improved several folds these days, I still don't have the courage to take that risk yet.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

If absolute comfort and reliability are your main lookouts, I would suggest looking at a slightly used, 1 year old Nissan Teana or Toyota Camry. Drive in either of them and you will forget about Innova/Corolla.

Thanks, adding used Camry Hybrid to the list now!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by amalji

I'm looking for a comfortable cruiser in the 20 lakhs range.

The options I have in mind are

• Toyota Corolla Altis CVT 1.8 VL Petrol
• Toyota Innova Crysta Z Automatic

Ideally, I would love to go for the Innova Crysta for the kind of flexibility it offers. But, I'm a bit skeptical for the following reasons.

PS: I plan to keep the vehicle for a long time. And hence cannot risk the Diesel ban. The only reason why I'm thinking of a new car is for an automatic and along with that, I'm just trying to rope in the comfort factor as well.

Looks like you have already decided on the Crysta, but just unsure because of the possibility of diesel bans in the future.

Why not buy the Innova Crysta Petrol AT then? It is available in the 7 seater AT configuration and you should be able to save more than 2 lakhs on road, which can later be used for fuel.

Being a long time Toyota user, and the petrol not being a hot seller - you might get discounts on the above price as well.

[Arjun Reddy]

Please also take a look at the Tucson GLS CRDI. Slightly overpriced at around 24 lakhs but it should suit your needs.

Under 2 litre , strong and refined 180 bhp , 400 nm torque engine, decent 6 speed auto , reclining rear seats with good amount of leg room and cabin space , big boot , car like dynamics , full LED head and tail lights, and more importantly full safety kit( 5* Euro NCAP).

The ingress is more car like. Take the family on the test drive and then decide.

Hyundai's reliability and service network reach is just as good as Toyota , if not better.

The festive season should see some discounts on the Tucson. Though looks are not a priority you could use some bling.

[abs182]

Originally Posted by amalji

I'm looking for a comfortable cruiser in the 20 lakhs range.

The options I have in mind are

• Toyota Corolla Altis CVT 1.8 VL Petrol
• Toyota Innova Crysta Z Automatic

I'm in the same boat as you to replace my aging Honda City. I agree with the view expressed that Crysta isn't built like it looks. I too know owners who are complaining of the niggles they are having in their cars. I have owned the previous generation corolla for 12 yrs. My family loved it so much that selling it was a very difficult decision. I will be buying a car in the next 6 months and currently have zeroed on Corolla because of its comfort and reliability. For me the Petrol version will be more than enough as the car will be barely doing 1000 kms a month. What I'm still undecided is whether I should opt for an AT version or not. I'll have to secure an extensive test drive with the AT before I make up my mind and to get that from the stingy dealers in my city will be a task.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by amalji

Space ( If the passengers need to stretch their legs during a long drive, they should be able to do that even if 4 people are in the car. )

Please check the comfort of a captain seat equipped SUV and the one which comes with regular seats. Sometimes passengers like to stretch or sit cross legged or you would like to rest in an emergency [of course in a stationery vehicle] and this is where practically choosing the seats will be a blessing in disguise.

If given a choice, I will opt for regular seats for my 4WD S10. Happy shopping