[Julian UK]

I'm not sure if this is appropriate but I hope he survived and lived his life as he should have, a belt drive Triumph Model H miltary model. Perhaps he or his relatives will see this as it ought to have a place in this thread.

Source I think in the team-bhp motorcycle thread. Correction or deletion welcome..

[sabinesnubbing]

Team-BHP members,
I have managed to progress well with my write up of the pre-independence registration details this last two days and am happy to share what I have found out so far with everyone. I am hoping that any of you with further information, pre 1939 photos, corrections, suggestions, etc can contact me either through the forum or on sabinesnubbing@hotmail.com
A lot of the early information I have managed to find from the excellent photos posted all over the Team-BHP site and it has been of enormous help.
The basis for my work is a desire to update the information in the book registration Plates of the World by a society for people interested in number plates (including me) called Europlate based in England. There was a fair amount of early information already but I have managed to improve on it. No doubt there are many errors, certainly many omissions and still some confusion.

I found a 1908 picture of a car in Calcutta with the registration 893 (on the Team-BHP site) and that has led me to say that registrations in India started by 1908, much earlier than anyone previously had recorded. The original registrations in Bombay, Calcutta and Hyderabad at least were initially just a plain number of up to five digits (in white on black) but Hyderabad had black on yellow plates with a red crescent below the number. In some of the smaller states the full name of the state was used. In other places and after that in the big cities, letters were also used and the early registrations may have been in the form of a letter or letters as a prefix to the number, or a suffix to the number or a number with both a prefix and a suffix where the suffix may have indicated the district or been serial. Several FP plates are known in the format FP 1234 A and I am sure the A is just a serial letter.
I have compiled this table that shows the letter combinations we know of. Where the letters are to the left of the name, it is a prefix and where the letters are to the right of the name, it is a suffix. So, for example, the early Agra plates were in the form UP 1234 AA but the early Travancore plates were in the form TVR 1234. Assam seems to have used 123 A and A 123 type registrations as well as AM 123 and 123 AM numbers. At some point (maybe 1920?) all registrations became ABC 1234 or AB 1234 type numbers I think with Bihar & Orissa and United Provinces adopting as prefixes only the letters that had previously been suffixes. The letters with ? beside them are places where there seems to me to be a conflict with another place having the same letter(s). Given that long distance travel was rare before 1939, this may well be the case but I am just not certain.
At the bottom right of the table are a list of letters that I have seen in pictures but I have no idea where that is. All help greatly received! Please!
Also please make comments, suggestions and corrections.

While I am writing, does anyone have a full list of the current Jharkhand district numbers (the only one I can find is partial only) and a correct list for Madhya Pradesh list that doesn’t have the district numbers repeated in it?

Many thanks to all BHPians for their most excellent pictures that have been a great help to me.
All the best to everyone
Cedric

[susan3004]

Thanks,
I could dig some more family photographs.
My fathers' grey Amby and my uncles' white one.
My fathers'Vespa 150.

[Stanher]

Originally Posted by sabinesnubbing

Team-BHP members,
I have managed to progress well with my write up of the pre-independence registration details this last two days and am happy to share what I have found out so far with everyone

Wow, thank you Cedric, thats a real painstaking job you've done in compiling all this information!
I'm glad to have clarified the MC (Madras city) bit finally! However, I still suspect that MS was for Madras state, even before independence.
I remember reading an article online at the standard motor club website about a standard in madras that was registered new in the 20s with an MSC regn.

[sabinesnubbing]

Firstly, my apologies for a messy looking post above. I had not realised that cut and paste was not a good idea. You can tell I am new to this!
Also, the bottom corner has been cut off on the picture. If anyone is interested, the missing details are Manbum MN and Monghyr MO.

Many thanks for the MSC piece Stanher, I will get it included in my list. Since Mysore originally had MS, I bet Madras had only MSA onwards. By 1939 there was a new (single) system introduced country wide and MSx was certainly Madras then. The list was pretty small in 1939 and it needed to be replaced/augmented when 1947 came around.
All the best
Cedric

[karlosdeville]

Originally Posted by Stanher

I remember reading an article online at the standard motor club website about a standard in madras that was registered new in the 20s with an MSC regn.

Originally Posted by sabinesnubbing

Firstly, my apologies for a messy looking post above. I had not realised that cut and paste was not a good idea. You can tell I am new to this!
Also, the bottom corner has been cut off on the picture. If anyone is interested, the missing details are Manbum MN and Monghyr MO.

Many thanks for the MSC piece Stanher, I will get it included in my list. Since Mysore originally had MS, I bet Madras had only MSA onwards. By 1939 there was a new (single) system introduced country wide and MSx was certainly Madras then. The list was pretty small in 1939 and it needed to be replaced/augmented when 1947 came around.
All the best
Cedric

Here is the article.

Indian SLO4

I really doubt however that the regn dates to the day it was delivered.

I think a regn numbers thread is in order.

[Prabal]

Originally Posted by susan3004

Thanks,
I could dig some more family photographs.
My fathers' grey Amby and my uncles' white one.
My fathers'Vespa 150.

Nice, very nice susan3004. Was your dad in the ASC? Could you PM me details please? You're in uniform too, right?

Thanks,

Prabal

[noonrock]

Of all the posts, this one is the most highly regarded by me. Fascinating yet sentimental, strange yet attractive, gone and nearly forgotten.

[Bhargava_sr]

Awesome Pics, we would have never got a chance to have a look at such a marvellous & Classic .. Goldy pics if you were not a Vintage Phyche ..

[susan3004]

Hi,
I stumbled upon more photographs. My father next to a Jonga and a tracked vehicle. (no marks for guessing the owner)A helicopter taking own casualties to safety. Confrontation between my fathers' friends over a Vespa 150.

[Prabal]

Originally Posted by susan3004

Hi,
I stumbled upon more photographs. My father next to a Jonga and a tracked vehicle. (no marks for guessing the owner)A helicopter taking own casualties to safety. Confrontation between my fathers' friends over a Vespa 150.

These Army-setting pics give me the goosebumps, Sandy. Superb and thanks.

May I take the liberty, folks, of posting a non-automotive picture here (been holding back for a long time, but susan3004 has motivated me with these shots?) This is my father as a paratrooper just exiting from the aircraft in 1948. My father was the first paratrooper to jump with an India-made parachute, after of course many sorties with the British-made ones by a company called Irwin, if I remember right. He wore a little enamelled-wing of theirs (Irwin's) on his lapel for the maximum jumps with their product too.

To bring a small auto angle to this photograph, paratroopers used the tiny paratroopers' motorcycle (by Wellbike, BSA, etc.) that was dropped in a secured cannister from which the paratrooper would extract it after locating the cannister post landing, assemble the bike (more like unfolding it actually) and putter away. A few of those cannisters can be seen in the picture dropped earlier (they looked pretty much like human forms). Paratroopers also jumped with the foldable para-cycle (bicycle) that was strapped to them and released by a long cord just before the man touched down.

Slightly OT, on one of jumps his multi-function Tissot's strap broke. It was a routine peace-time exercise jump, so he went looking for the watch in the dessert and found it still ticking after the drop. And continues to, even today!

[karlosdeville]

Superb Prabal!

One question. Who was mad enough to stick himself half out of a plane in mid air to take a photograph?!

Thanks for this wonderful contribution.

[Prabal]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

One question. Who was mad enough to stick himself half out of a plane in mid air to take a photograph?!

These guys thrived on their madness, Karl, all of them. They weren't/aren't normal humans. However, it is also possible that the shot might have been taken by a camera on the kite itself.

Talking of madness, an uncle of mine who flew Spitfires, claims that they'd do sorties with petrol in only one tank and beer in the other, because there's be no chilled beer in the Mess (obviously there would be some order passed for the sortie to make it look like an official sanction). There would be a crew waiting on the ground with hoses to suction out the beer fast, which would be better than chilled-perfect, now!cheers:

[SuperSelect]

Wow Prabal, these stories are the stuff legends are made of ! Do keep sharing.

[speedy]

Originally Posted by Julian UK

I'm not sure if this is appropriate but I hope he survived and lived his life as he should have, a belt drive Triumph Model H miltary model. Perhaps he or his relatives will see this as it ought to have a place in this thread.
Attachment 41567
Source I think in the team-bhp motorcycle thread. Correction or deletion welcome..

here is the triumph 1910 belt drive that belongs to a collector here.