[DKG]

Originally Posted by travancore

It must have been fascinating to have two Lagondas in the family!

..and the Holkar Duesenberg too !!

[harit]

Originally Posted by DKG

..and the Holkar Duesenberg too !!

Hi, the automotive archaelogist is back, and can state with 100% surety that the Holkar Duessy was NEVER in Ahmedabad. They had the Idar Duessy which was a DIFFERENT car. Yup, I too was stunned when I figured this out after talking to a lot of people.

Cheers harit

[wasif]

Originally Posted by harit

Hi, the automotive archaelogist is back, and can state with 100% surety that the Holkar Duesy was NEVER in Ahmedabad. They had the Idar Duessy which was a DIFFERENT car. Yup, I too was stunned when I figured this out after talking to a lot of people.

Cheers harit

Pictures please ....what was the chassis number of the Idar car ?

[DKG]

Harit from what I gathered from the Nath family is the Holkar car went to Idar, may have passed on to Jodhpur (they are not too sure about this) and back to Idar. From Idar the Nath family bought the car. Apparently later a dealer bought the car from the Naths and in turn sold it to Sheikh Mukhtar. I vaguely recall a picture of the car in their collection of photographs which is how when I asked about the car they mentioned they owned it once !

Anyway you are the archaeologist so will leave it to you to ascertain the facts

[travancore]

Originally Posted by wasif

Pictures please ....what was the chassis number of the Idar car ?

Here is published info and Chassis Number (posted earlier in the Duesenbergs in India thread, post #22).This is very likely the Idar car. Last seen in 1952 with the Maharaja of Ramnagar ???

Also note the interesting "expanding" luggage carrier on the running board by the rear door.



On page 100 of Autos of the Maharajas is an interview with Maharaja Rajendra Singh of Idar, where he recalls that his favorite childhood car was the Dueseneberg (which one ???)

Also remember reading that Idar took the Duesenberg from his nephew the Holkar, since he thought it was "too much car" for the young prince. Can't seem to trace that page - thought it was in the same book. Cheers

[wasif]

Any idea who was the first owner in India of J 196 ?

So does this mean thet the Holkars at some point had this car too apart from the famous custom ordered J 585

It would be soo interesting to trace the ownership hitory and fate of both J 196 and J 202

[harit]

Hi,

Idar had a dual cowl car, but that is only 90% sure.
Mr. Nath always felt that the Holkar Duessy was smaller than his car.
Holkar car went first to Holkar (no need to be a Sherlok to come up with this), then went on to a state in Maharashtra (there is documented proof of this) and then to the Sheikh who took it to Bombay and sailed them away (along with the Caddy).
The Idar car did land up with Mr. Nath, who sold it to a broker from, of all the places, Indore, but he did not have "Royal" blood. And the Idar car was most probably owned by the Maharana, not Maharaja.

From a relative of the Idar family I have heard that the car was spotted abroad by another relative who was a pilot but unfortunately is no more. He even went up to the place where he had seen the car and told them about its Idar heritage. But now the trail has gone cold.

I also feel that there is an attempt to throw many off-track by linking the Idar car to Holkar. I know that that is not the case.

Cheers harit

[DKG]

I've asked Mr. Nath to hunt out the picture of the Duesy that passed through them. As far as I know there was no other Duesenberg made like the Gurney Nutting bodied car for the Holkars. So its highly unlikely the Idar family has a similar car. Considering the Farman went from one state to another the Duesy may have passed through Idar too.

Pictures will clear this up though !

[wasif]

Originally Posted by DKG

I've asked Mr. Nath to hunt out the picture of the Duesy that passed through them. As far as I know there was no other Duesenberg made like the Gurney Nutting bodied car for the Holkars. So its highly unlikely the Idar family has a similar car. Considering the Farman went from one state to another the Duesy may have passed through Idar too.

Pictures will clear this up though !

Maybe one of the Hyderabad Duesenbergs passed thru Idar / the nath family and ended up in Calcutta with the Mitters.

Gautam Sen's book says the Mitter brothers both had Duesenbergs at one point in time.

I will take Harit's knowledge as accurate regarding the ownership history of the Holkar car

[DKG]

Let some pictures emerge on the car that passed through the Nath family and it will clear up the confusion. I very vaguely remember a picture in their collection which was the Holkar car and btw this car is not something you confuse with any other Duesy. I remember I asked specifically where the picture was taken and I was told the family had the car. I was obviously very surprised to hear that and hence my hunch. But this was a couple of years ago and I may be confusing pictures.

Anyway lets hope Mr. Nath finds the picture and it will clarify as to which Duesenberg passed through their ownership.

As for the Hyderabad cars the coupe is in the US, don't know the route it took before heading out of India. The other car was rumoured to have gone to Calcutta. There was some talk of only an engine suriving which went out later.

[harit]

Originally Posted by DKG

I've asked Mr. Nath to hunt out the picture of the Duesy that passed through them. As far as I know there was no other Duesenberg made like the Gurney Nutting bodied car for the Holkars. So its highly unlikely the Idar family has a similar car. Considering the Farman went from one state to another the Duesy may have passed through Idar too. Pictures will clear this up though !

If I remember correctly, I had mentioned that the Idar car was a dual cowl car. The Holkar car was not.

Originally Posted by DKG

Let some pictures emerge on the car that passed through the Nath family and it will clear up the confusion. I very vaguely remember a picture in their collection which was the Holkar car and btw this car is not something you confuse with any other Duesy. I remember I asked specifically where the picture was taken and I was told the family had the car. I was obviously very surprised to hear that and hence my hunch. But this was a couple of years ago and I may be confusing pictures. Anyway lets hope Mr. Nath finds the picture and it will clarify as to which Duesenberg passed through their ownership. As for the Hyderabad cars the coupe is in the US, don't know the route it took before heading out of India. The other car was rumoured to have gone to Calcutta. There was some talk of only an engine suriving which went out later.

No picture will emerge because at the moment Mr. Nath has none. But at the back of his mind there was always something troubling him that the Holkar Duessy was smaller than his. But this goes on memory and recollection which need not be accurate, and certainly not conclusive. It just would be supporting evidence.
BUT, I have been privy to a registration book of the Holkar car. That clearly shows the trail of ownership, and BOTH Idar and Nath are NOT mentioned. Holkar, another state, and the Sheikh.

Another info is that the Idar Duessy was a 1st owner car with them.

There is definitely a lot of intrigue in this. I have discussed this with more than three reliable people, reliability is very important in this sort of snooping around and one should quickly judge if a source is reliable or not.
Now I wait for more feedback. Let us begin by accurately identifying how many Duessies came to India, who were their 1st owners, and follow the trail. I believe that there were 6 Duesenbergs, 5 type J and one type A, but my source for this info is a bit suspect.

Cheers harit

[wasif]

why not move the Duesenberg discussion on to the appropriate "Duesenbergs in India" thread on the link below.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/pre-wa...rd-auburn.html

So now Harit states there were six Duesenbergs that came to India. We have discussed four of them on this thread, all Modes J's

It would be intresting f you can shed some light on the fifth Model J , most probably it would be the Idar car you are refering to.

Now with regrds to the Model A do you hae any ideas on who owned ad and what happene to it.

[harit]

Change the topic. Does anyone know where Russel market is? I would bet on south India, but you never know. Note the Lamby Ricksha.

Cheers harit

[Samurai]

Russel Market is in Shivajinagar, Bangalore.

[IQBAL VEERJI]

Originally Posted by harit

Change the topic. Does anyone know where Russel market is? I would bet on south India, but you never know. Note the Lamby Ricksha.

Cheers harit

HARIT JI,It is not lamby rickshaw but Vespa aka BAJAJ of today, pls notice the front suspention swing arms, it is one sided as we find in Bajaj and Lamby has both sides trailing links. Regards....