[Stanher]

Originally Posted by harit

A Fiat, and a young boy. The Fiat appears to be well used.

Cheers Harit

I remember you'd posted this pic. once before. Really speaks of the pride of ownership in the boy.....or maybe it was just a pose for the photo.

BTW, is the rear bumper actually painted white? I remember many older gen. cars in Bombay had the chrome parts painted so, in fear of the rust perhaps? Many even had grease smeared on the chrome parts.

[arvindmanju]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Those are excellent pictures, thanks for sharing. Are there any more?

Judging by the age of the photo, the MYS registration is probably the older MYS series (it was repeated later on I think).

Originally Posted by deutscheafrikar

Arvind Manjunath, Nice pictures and thanks for sharing. Which part of the country is this located in.

Originally Posted by KPS

This place would be in Hassan or Shimoga District in Karnataka

Cheers

KPS

thank you!
these pictures were taken at my grandparents place called Hosaholalu, currently in K.R.Pet tq Mandya district Karnataka. Back then Karnataka was called Mysore hence M series reg.

I tried to find more details of the car, but not many know the details, all I came to know was my great grandfather was very passionate about Cars, Bike and Photography (same passion running in my blood)

I have some more pictures of the bikes and trucks we owned during those days, will scan them and post it soon

[dbv333]

Originally Posted by harit

Hi Travancore,
I am aware of this Monza, now in the US, but I am talking of a different car. A 1750. If anyone can give the chassis no of the Indore car, we can compare. This car was brought to India by a Lieutenant, I am not familiar with army ranks to know whether that makes him an officer.
Many of these cars had landed up in Ethiopia, which was under Italy, and during WW II they lost to the British. That is how some of these cars became British owned, and one Lieutenant brought one to India.
More can be read in The Automobile, August issue.

Cheers Harit
PS I was hoping that kasli would post a picture of the Alfa.

Hi – I am a very new “newbie”, indeed this is my first ever post, so please excuse any mistakes. I feel a bit of an intruder on this excellent site, as I do not live in India nor do I have connections any longer with India, but I was born in Calcutta and have some recollections that I thought might be of interest in some of the fascinating threads I have been following since discovering the site.

Re Alfa Romeos, I am son of the Jimmy Braid mentioned as having shipped the Alfa Romeo 8C-2300 Monza (Chassis # 2311206) to India. The car was already in India when my father (not an English officer, incidentally, but a proud Scotsman) bought the car for Rs6, 000 after very lengthy negotiations on 2 March 1947 in Ahmedabad from a Lt. Robin Marsden and had it transported by rail to Calcutta. In the very informative letter Lt. Marsden sent my father to confirm despatch of the car to Calcutta he said that since my father had last seen the car the bodywork had been fully rebuilt in early 1946 for Rs2, 000, but noted that much of the instrumentation was not working properly, and the clutch was sticking, possibly from lack of use.

Interestingly, apparently Lt. Marsden also claimed that the car was ex-Nuvolari (although I know my father was sceptical as even back in 1947 he said every Monza for sale claimed to be ex-Nuvolari) but he seemingly didn’t base this assertion on the two rev counters but on the revised bodywork which he said the owner in Asmara from whom he had purchased the car told him had been undertaken by an earlier owner specifically to enter Nuvolari in one race only.

Early photos sent when my father was first enquiring about the car in 1946




I think this is of Lt Marsden, possibly in Ahmedabad (it was colour edited in the 1980’sby a friend of my father’s from an original photo which seems now to have been misplaced)

My father, who was at that time involved in the jute industry and was based at Angus Jute Mill outside Calcutta, used the Alfa at weekends to drive around the countryside or to go into Calcutta, as this was before motor sport had commenced in Calcutta. The car carried the registration BYA 3573 while in Calcutta according to my father’s insurance certificate dated May 1947, but unfortunately I don’t have any photographs of it in Calcutta. I recall as a very young boy seeing the car at the race track in Alipore, Calcutta around 1956 when it was being driven by Howard Jackson.

I was interested to read the comments on the Indore Alfas. My father must have enquired about an Alfa Romeo that His Highness the Maharajah Holkar of Indore owned, as I have a letter dated 12 May 1943 from the ADC to H.H. the Maharaja Holkar informing him that the car had been purchased by “one Rai Bahadur Seth Hiralal of Indore”. Unfortunately, the letter doesn’t detail the car, but I still have the photographs of the two Alfas that my father said Indore (or his ADC) had sent to him – the one I recall him saying he had tried to buy was a 2900B but I think the one that the letter refers to as having been sold was the smaller one (a 1750?).






In the 28 November 1954 Calcutta Motor Sports Club programme an Alfa Romeo is pictured being raced at Alipore by a Pat Connolly. From the photo it looks like a 1750 and closely resembles the one above, but it looks (in B&W) to be a different colour.
I hope this may help you fill in some of the “Alfas in India” gaps.

Best Regards

Ron Braid


Note from Mod : Please note that it is required that you upload pictures directly to the Team-BHP Server. Please click here (Uploading photographs directly to Team-BHP) to view our simple help article on uploading pictures. Thanks for your excellent contribution so far. Hope to see more.

[DKG]

Originally Posted by dbv333

this is my first ever post....

Ron, after Steve Stuckey's posts on the RR PIII's this has to be one of the most awesome posts on TBHP in ages. WOW !!! What a treat and I honestly don't know how to say thank you to you for sharing this amazing history with us !!

[karlosdeville]

Originally Posted by dbv333

Hi – I am a very new “newbie”, indeed this is my first ever post...

...bought the car for Rs6, 000 after very lengthy negotiations on 2 March 1947 in Ahmedabad from a Lt. Robin Marsden and had it transported by rail to Calcutta.

The car carried the registration BYA 3573 while in Calcutta according to my father’s insurance certificate dated May 1947.

I was interested to read the comments on the Indore Alfas. My father must have enquired about an Alfa Romeo that His Highness the Maharajah Holkar of Indore owned, as I have a letter dated 12 May 1943 from the ADC to H.H. the Maharaja Holkar...

In the 28 November 1954 Calcutta Motor Sports Club programme an Alfa Romeo is pictured being raced at Alipore by a Pat Connolly.

Ron, we cannot thank you enough for sharing this priceless information with us. It is indeed very exciting, and pictures of the Holkar car were an added bonus. If possible do share some more scans of the correspondence and any more literature like CMSC leaflets, or even the insurance letter you speak of.

BYA would be an Ahmedabad registration when it fell in the erstwhile Bombay Presidency. There is also a picture of probably the same car registered BRT 100 in Gautam Sen's lovely book 'The Maharajas and their Magnificent Motorcars'. BRT would be a Jamshedpur/Tatanagar registration.

[harit]

Originally Posted by dbv333

I hope this may help you fill in some of the “Alfas in India” gaps. Best Regards Ron Braid

Dear Ron,

Somehow I get the feeling that you know a lot more on the motor sports scene in Calcutta. Did your dad own the Allard? Please check post 1506 on http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...-cars-101.html . I got 5 pictures, in one of them the Allard is seen.

Here is a family picture of an Amby. Could it have been a taxi? I know that in certain places in South India taxi's were black + yellow but did not have a meter.

Cheers harit

[Stanher]

Originally Posted by harit

Here is a family picture of an Amby. Could it have been a taxi? I know that in certain places in South India taxi's were black + yellow but did not have a meter.

'cant be a taxi since it has black number plates (taxis back then, as you'd know, had white plates with black lettering- the black & yellow ones certainly did)

On a lighter note, taxis in Madras do have meters even now but are as good as not having them!

[dbv333]

Originally Posted by harit

Dear Ron,

Somehow I get the feeling that you know a lot more on the motor sports scene in Calcutta. Did your dad own the Allard? Please check post 1506 on http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...-cars-101.html . I got 5 pictures, in one of them the Allard is seen.

Here is a family picture of an Amby. Could it have been a taxi? I know that in certain places in South India taxi's were black + yellow but did not have a meter.

Cheers harit

Hello Harit - yes, it was my father who bought the 1951 Allard J2 from Desmond Titterington in summer 1954 and imported it to Calcutta, first racing it at Alipore on 31 October 1954, 3hrs after it landed at the docks. He sold it in January 1956 to another Calcutta racing stalwart, Allan Ramsay.

I think I probably have some more information and pictures that I can contribute regarding motor racing in Calcutta in the 1950s, although I was very young at the time, and will try to do a fuller post sometime soon.

Regards,

Ron

[travancore]

Originally Posted by dbv333

Hi – I am a very new “newbie”, indeed this is my first ever post, so please excuse any mistakes. I feel a bit of an intruder on this excellent site, as I do not live in India nor do I have connections any longer with India, but I was born in Calcutta and have some recollections that I thought might be of interest in some of the fascinating threads I have been following since discovering the site.

Ron Braid

Hi Ron, welcome to TBHP. This is probably one of those rare ocassions when a "newbie" brings such fantastic wealth of information - and invaluable photographs.

The Holkar 8C-2900B is well known and very much around, including Pebble Beach. But the 1750 (at least to me) is a new "find". In the Alipore photo, the car also seems to "sport" wing lamps and a rear view mirror.

Thanks and keep contributing ...............Cheers

[harit]

Originally Posted by Stanher

I remember you'd posted this pic. once before.

Logically this will imply that I have purchased this photo twice. As a matter of fact, that does happen, I get two old original prints of the same photo. Three copies has not happened as yet.

Originally Posted by Stanher

'cant be a taxi since it has black number plates (taxis back then, as you'd know, had white plates with black lettering- the black & yellow ones certainly did)

I know from personal experience that some of these cabs and hire cars in South India had both plates. white on black and black on white. And they would change these at will. Whether that was legal at that time I do not know.

Originally Posted by dbv333

Hello Harit - yes, it was my father who bought the 1951 Allard J2 from Desmond Titterington in summer 1954 and imported it to Calcutta, first racing it at Alipore on 31 October 1954, 3hrs after it landed at the docks. He sold it in January 1956 to another Calcutta racing stalwart, Allan Ramsay. I think I probably have some more information and pictures that I can contribute regarding motor racing in Calcutta in the 1950s, although I was very young at the time, and will try to do a fuller post sometime soon. Regards, Ron

I am attaching a photo of the Allard when it was already in the hands of Mr. Ramsey. Second picture shows a text written on the back, can anyone identify the author? Just a shot in the dark.
This Allard has completely vanished, no trace of it at all, maybe also exported.

Dear Ron, please check in your photos if you see any Lancia similar to the red car in this thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...-lonavala.html . That was a professionally built racing car on a Lancia chassis.

Cheers harit

[r_nairtvm]

Originally Posted by harit

I know from personal experience that some of these cabs and hire cars in South India had both plates. white on black and black on white. And they would change these at will. Whether that was legal at that time I do not know.
Cheers harit

Harit,

You are both right and wrong

What existed here were Taxis and Tourist Taxis.

The Taxis were two tone paint - black and yellow. These had number plates with black letters/numbers on white.

Tourist Taxis - They had the original manufacturers paint. They also hade number plates like private cars - while letter/number on black plate.

But the difference was that they had a the "tourist" emblem on the plate - letter "t" inside a circle. Many a time that 't' used to be so small that it would have been difficult to spot it.

The car in question definitely is not a taxi. It has to be the personal car of one of the Police Officers in Kerala State of the rank not less than the DSP (it can not be his official car - as all goverment vehicles in Kerala are registered in Trivandrum and hence would have KLT/V/ etc (now KL 01) series numbers). If you notice, there is a Uniformed Police Person there. The Blue beret cap was/is worn by the Drivers of the police department even now. But now they were troucers not the police shorts.

Kerala Police had a few high ranking Personnel from Palghat. KLP is Palghat Dist. In this photo from the lady's dress we can presume that this officer would have been from the Palgaht - Tamil Brahmin community.

Again I think what appears as the lighter tone top - looks like a sunshade. and may be the sun reflection is causing the distortion

Best Regards & Drive/Ride Safe

Ram

[karlosdeville]

Here is a 1920s american tourer, courtesy Life magainze and oldphotos.in

[travancore]

Originally Posted by dbv333

Re Alfa Romeos, I am son of the Jimmy Braid mentioned as having shipped the Alfa Romeo 8C-2300 Monza (Chassis # 2311206) to India. The car was already in India when my father (not an English officer, incidentally, but a proud Scotsman) bought the car for Rs6, 000 after very lengthy negotiations on 2 March 1947 in Ahmedabad from a Lt. Robin Marsden and had it transported by rail to Calcutta. In the very informative letter Lt. Marsden sent my father to confirm despatch of the car to Calcutta he said that since my father had last seen the car the bodywork had been fully rebuilt in early 1946 for Rs2, 000, but noted that much of the instrumentation was not working properly, and the clutch was sticking, possibly from lack of use.


Ron Braid

Here is some interesting history on Alfa 2311206 (though we know that all of it is not entirely factual - thanks to Ron). The wings and cowling seem to have been changed since its "India" days.

Click link below to view.

Christopher Leydon's website

[Stanher]

A pic. showing Churchgate station, B'bay.

Although its mentioned as circa 1940, it appears to be very much post-independence, going by the cars- what looks like an early 50s Chevy (right), an Austin A40 and an early 50s Desoto convertible.



Source:

1940s « The Indian Memory Project

[harit]

This seems to be a pillarless Chevy Impala of the 1960's, very good and new car.
Persons seems to be politicians, maybe even businessmen, or a combination, and certainly stylish and tasteful. To have such a car they would surely be from the upper crust.
Any idea who?

Cheers harit