[harit]

Originally Posted by xoticars

Harit, I have personally seen the Kanpur Daimler Double Six and it is NOT a limo converted to a two door car. I have a number of fotos too, but not allowed to put here. Also on the subject of the Alfa, I had been in Coimbatore a few years ago, and there was chat about this car being rebodied at some point. This car has had a bad time over the last several years. It has fallen off a truck, and hence windscreen and other bits missing. Right now sitting in the open in White Fields-Bangalore along with the Lancia. Been sitting in rain and sun for a long while now. Unlikely the car can ever be restored in India with so many bits missing. Good luck to the owner.

Hi, nice to see you here.
Just have a close look. What I remember, the body on the car was not finished. It isunfinished. So perhaps 'a' ( being very cautious here) Limo body was removed and a new one was being built. I spoke to Manvendra, he is not sure if it was a Limo, but he is sure that the body is not of the correct period, a later body. So, technically it could be said not converted, but perhaps rebodied. Is there a Daimler register to give feedback, since numbers have been given? Perhaps we can see the pics whenever we meet.
The Alfa was semi stripped, loaded on a truck, allowed to move back and forth, hitting the nose many times. This is what the owner had told me, and the pics show a damaged nose. Has it fallen of a truck? I am not so sure, damage might have looked different. But that is trivia.
I agree, good luck to the owner and may he succeed in his endeavour.

[DKG]

Originally Posted by harit

Is there a Daimler register to give feedback, since numbers have been given?

Ah the wise men speak! I am already in touch with the pre-war Daimler Registrar Steve Campbell-Wright and he confirmed seeing the car some 10 years ago and has pictures. We are in the process of confirming more details of the car.

What is certain is the car was originally bought by a Joseph Mackle of Stratstone ( I think dealers of Daimlers). Joseph Mackle used to purchase atleast 2 cars each year and often his wife would sketch a car to have it made by a coachbuilder. They would enter concours across the continent with Mrs Mackle specially attired.

Xoticars I've also confirmed the correct rim size of the car to be 21 inches with a 31 x 5.25 size tyre (the correct size for the 131 inch chassis Model Q which this Daimler apparently is)

[karlosdeville]

Id think the list is more or less final now. How long before we start cropping it? How do we take it from here?

[TractionAvant]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Id think the list is more or less final now. How long before we start cropping it? How do we take it from here?

I think a list, with pictures, of all contenders would be the way to go. Only one person might take the job of cropping it (after discussion here, of course )

Aditya

[DKG]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Id think the list is more or less final now. How long before we start cropping it? How do we take it from here?

Set some criteria Karlos

Desirability of marque
Number produced
Number surviving
Coachbuilt/Custom design/special features/one off car
Originality/ Ownership/History

etc

[S.B.Jatti]

Attached are photographs of 1929 Stutz, Model M, Vertical Eight Engine, 113 HP, 4 Passenger Speedster with Dual Cowls, Coach built by LeBaron on a 134½" Wheelbase. This car has 10,360 miles on the odometer. Probably will find its way in the most desirable cars list.

Please see this thread for more pictures and a discussion on the car: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/pre-19...find-year.html

[S.B.Jatti]

Originally Posted by DKG

Set some criteria Karlos

Desirability of marque
Number produced
Number surviving
Coachbuilt/Custom design/special features/one off car
Originality/ Ownership/History

etc

I agreee with all the criteria that you have mentioned about coming to a conclusion based on the parameters mentioned by you. It may be worthwhile to shortlist about 30 cars and send the list of these cars with all the details as mentioned by you along with details of the condition of the car and whether the car is road worthy etc. along with recent photographs to one or two international auction houses of repute to give their asessement of the likely prices these cars could fetch in an international auction. Ultimately desirability / collectable largely depends on what price a car commands in the international market.

[wasif]

Originally Posted by S.B.Jatti

I Ultimately desirability / collectable largely depends on what price a car commands in the international market.

Sir.

This is not necessarily always true. This would ba a very commercial way to look cars.

Most people are in this hobby for the pure pleasure of owning such cars. What it would be worth on the international market would not be a consideration.

For that matter going by your own assesment the Stutz would be out of consideration on this list as there are plenty available in the international market. The reason this car would figure on the list would be the originality of its condition and its rarity in India.

[S.B.Jatti]

Unless a car is Desirable or Collectable, no car will fetch a higher price in the international market. That is the reason, I have said International market and not the price somebody has paid in India. If we go by individual preferences we will have twenty lists of the most collectable cars and there is no way of coming to a consensus on a list of ten cars which everybody agrees on.

[DKG]

Originally Posted by S.B.Jatti

I agreee with all the criteria that you have mentioned ....

I should have thought it was a reasonable way to select the top ten but except for you no one else seems to think so. I am open to some methodogy to whet out the final few

[DKG]

I am glad the owner of the Alfa has taken the trouble to share some more info on his car. I am reproducing below a direct extract from his email to me.

Attaching pages from the book 'Giulietta Sprint Veloce Zagato' by 'Gino Giugno'.

1) Sports Car Market Magazine > Profiles > 1957 Alfa Romeo SVZ Profiles from the January, 1998 Issue...1957 Alfa Romeo SVZ

During the 1956 Mille Miglia, Carlo Leto di Priolo badly crashed his Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Veloce, destroying the body. He then had the car rebodied by his friend Elio Zagato. The new bodywork bore all the hallmarks of Zagato's mastery - low drag, beautiful lines and lightweight, tipping the scales at some 110 kg less than the standard SV. When tuned by Stefanelli and Vecchi of Milan, the car was capable of 121mph, and on its debut at the Coppa Intereuropa at Monza, it was two seconds per lap faster than any other car in its class, winning by 22 seconds from Jo Bonnier in a conventional SV, and in the process setting a new record speed of 90.56 mph race average, the last laps of which were in the rain.
Over the next six years, the car and its successors totally dominated its class, with engine tuners extracting up to 130bhp from the twin cam engine, leading Alfa Romeo to officially re-enter motor racing. Leto di Priolo's car was also a concours d'elegance prizewinner.
Following the success of this first SV Zagato, orders soon piled up at Zagato's works, and in 1957 three further examples were built, all with “double bubble” roofs, and between 1958-1959 fifteen additional cars were built, all with a conventional flat roof.

2) Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums - View Single Post - The complete SVZ file

I have now redone the the new SVZ book. Gino Giugno lists 16 of the 18 cars mentioned in the Veloce book: 14 for sure (*01849*, *01944*, *02158*, *02289*, *02308*, *02348*, *03249*, *03907*, *04249*, *04458*, *04657*, *04717*, *04718*, *06184*), 2 perhaps (the ex Gorza *01613/04069*, and the ex Schild, *02488* to my files). The two unknown could be *02028* and *08780* to my files

Not mentioned is *01521*, *03613*, *03699*, *04045*, *05114*, *05684*, *06936*, *09403* and the SVS *01819*

The SVZ book has many photos, but some of them are already known from the Giulietta-Targa book. It also shows some period ACI papers copied, but because of the poor print quality it is not always easy to read them correctly. Text and list of race entries are not exhaustive, some show wrong dates. The history of the cars ends in the early 1960s, only for Rajesh' *04249* there are newer photos (from 1999). The last pages show some pics of existing cars (mostly from GiuliettaLetta), but without any comment nor VIN. All in all, it contains a lot of information for the interested, and its price is acceptable.

Short updated history: SVA/SVZ *04249*: 1957-1958 with Mario Angioli; 1958-1959 with Silvano Bernabei, raced by "Lucky" (Battistoli?); 1959 with Clara Barbato, raced by Dario Sepe (note: Dario Sepe already raced in 1958 a Giulietta, but I do not believe it was SVZ *04249* since Bernabei was from Roma, and both Barbato/Sepe were Neapolitano; 1960 raced by Silvio Mandato (note: the book lists Sepe for the 19590927 Catania-Etna with No. 312, but Mandato was there and finished 2cl, Sepe is not listed with *04249* after this); 1961 sold to Renetto Venneli, General Manager of Alitalia Airlines India, Bombay (note: Renato Valli, Italian ambassador at Bombay, according to Giugno)

[Faster789]

Interesting thread! Would be great to see a final list after the required discussion concludes, the thread seems incomplete at this point.

The Zagato bodied Alfa doesn't look so lovely, but must be a different sight in the flesh. Zagato still by far my favourite designer.... Truly the golden age of design in the 50s-60s.

Pictures of the top ten in one place would be great!

Originally Posted by S.B.Jatti

Unless a car is Desirable or Collectable, no car will fetch a higher price in the international market. That is the reason, I have said International market and not the price somebody has paid in India. If we go by individual preferences we will have twenty lists of the most collectable cars and there is no way of coming to a consensus on a list of ten cars which everybody agrees on.

I would think this the most sensible approach as well. As the world become a smaller place, it would be a decent approach to see how we can order the cars in this thread based upon actual prices that these cars have achieved abroad. There is no doubt that they are all collectible! A subjective view of things, or a list based purely on numbers of production/rarit would be misleading. Price at the end of the day (in the markets abroad) takes all these factors on board and applies them correctly in most cases.

[IndrojitSircar]

Hi everyone,

Why has the thread stopped moving further towards finding out the top ten collectible cars in india?Can we start making a consolidated list ? Lets try and wrap it up soon.

[Faster789]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

Hi everyone,

Why has the thread stopped moving further towards finding out the top ten collectible cars in india?Can we start making a consolidated list ? Lets try and wrap it up soon.

To put together a list of this sort, you need to first agree on criteria. As a new member without any axe to grind I can see that there are a lot of different views and people are very reluctant to accept anyone else's points.

I am not sure we've got the discipline to do this here! Here's hoping...

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by Faster789

To put together a list of this sort, you need to first agree on criteria. As a new member without any axe to grind I can see that there are a lot of different views and people are very reluctant to accept anyone else's points.

I am not sure we've got the discipline to do this here! Here's hoping...

Yes and leaving DKG and a few others no one else is willing to contribute to this thread.People need to be interested first before even they make any contributions.