[harit]

Originally Posted by Prabal

Whether it's a fake ad or not, the car looks for real. I am eagerly awaiting to hear which model of Beetle this is from the VW experts here.

Originally Posted by Prabal

Thank you, Ajay ji. So, do we take it as a '66/'67 Beetle then? Do the other VW gurus concur? It's very confusing for me, but yes, .......

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

I'd say either a 67 Delux or a 68+ Standard.
Though the pic is not entirely clear, ....I find it hard to believe that you had any difficulty in determining that this car is not a 1947 !

Originally Posted by Prabal

Well, it's not so much about it being 1947 model or not, but exactly which model (or a rough period block) ....experts on the forum, especially the Vollkswagen specialists who are said to be the best in the country, that it would be wonderful to be guided by them, I feel.

Originally Posted by priyo

Not a 47 Beetle . 1 The back window is too large- postwar VW had a two piece rear window ........

Prabal, you are a riot. And a 1947 Beetle where did that come from. I am sure that many Beetle experts have been challenged and legs have ben pulled. BTW, its not uncommon for Beetles to have a mix of parts from other years fitted on them as parts were used from whatever source was available.
Some experts seem to have been had.

Cheers harit

[thebulletboy]

Originally Posted by harit

And a 1947 Beetle where did that come from.

Why, where else would it come from ?!?

Originally Posted by harit

Prabal, you are a riot.

Yes, I am glad that the aura of mystery surrounding Prabal Ji's capabilities has finally be lifted and he will now receive all the laurels and ovations that he so richly deserves !

Originally Posted by harit

Some experts seem to have been had.

I'm sure everyone involved was glad to be of assistance in the general amusement and merriment.

But what was the punchline?

1. Prabal Ji is the actual owner of this 'jerman war' example and has changed all parts including chassis, body, wheels etc to that of a later model?

2. Prabal Ji weeds out fake ads of real cars and feigns ignorance about the model year?

3. Prabal Ji and Harit Ji have formed a mutual admiration society, where they meet and consume obscene quantities of Parle Ji dipped in hot tea and discuss the next "Googly" to be pulled off on team-bhp?

It's all very confusing to me.. wish someone would explain !

[Ravindra M]

Originally Posted by vinay kamath

Bowman, I'm always on prowl for sporty 1995-2002 model black BMW 7 series at reasonable cost! similar to the Transporter one!

Your wish is likely to come true. See the ad in T-BHP classified itself. This is the best example I have ever noticed in recent times.

[Prabal]

Originally Posted by ajay99

Prabhalji, many of us still remember your detailed article on air cooled bugs in the 1998 AutoIndia(month-October??)magazine on the 50th year of Beetle.!!! So you are actually the pioneer/guide regarding VW specs,history.

Thank you, Ajay ji, but I have absolutely no illusions of being a pioneer/guide/specialist, or whatever, on VWs or any other marque, whatsoever. Heck, I don't think I am even a good writer either. Certainly a terrible (almost ex) auto jouno, who never went on paid junkets or accepted expensive gifts!

A Volkswagen guru here had once rightly mentioned on the forum that by writing an article in a publication one doesn't become knowledgeable about automobiles, or an expert in a particular marque - one does so by working on them! Very right! Which is why I was hoping to hear from those with vast experience (accumulated from working on the VW marque, in particular) to tell us more about this Beetle here. Fake ad or not, at least the car is real, and I am sure there are tell-tale signs that a specialist/experienced restorer can easily pick from the pics and share with us.

And my interest to know stems from a desire to learn more about all marques, not just VWs, btw.

Originally Posted by harit

Prabal, you are a riot.

Harit G, I wish it were a blonde bombshell who'd started a riot instead!

Originally Posted by harit

And a 1947 Beetle where did that come from.

Actually, that's mentioned in the ad from Pune - the one on OLX (link given in the first post on it).

Originally Posted by harit

I am sure that many Beetle experts have been challenged.

Unfortunately, the experts aren't sharing their knowledge with us. Very disappointing, I must say! It's all very well to see nice pictures of cars that have received an expert's TLC and treatment, but the unglamorous bits (like identifying model and all) also need to be enlightened by them, no?

Originally Posted by harit

BTW, its not uncommon for Beetles to have a mix of parts from other years fitted on them as parts were used from whatever source was available.

That's true. Which is why these cars confuse me so much! Thank heavens I don't have to work on them often!

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

Yes, I am glad that the aura of mystery surrounding Prabal Ji's capabilities has finally be lifted and he will now receive all the laurels and ovations that he so richly deserves !

No sir, am not looking for any Laurels, unless it's something made by a company named Nissan. Plus, I quite look like Hardy myself already! I would like to see a better quality, in the work being showcased often and discussions/posts happening around here though - nothing wrong with that, I hope.

Gosh, that, the 'aura of mystery' makes me sound like Mata Hari, or some spy out of another Ian Flemming novel! But, jokes aside, and once again being absolutely honest, there is nothing mysterious about me, nor any pretension of being an expert. In fact, I find people who masquerade as Mr-Know-it-all rather unagreeable. One can never know everything, and there is no substitute for humility. Period!

And btw, in case you got the impression in any of my earlier comments (in the previous posts) that I was alluding to you, in any way, be rest assured that I wasn't. On the contrary, I have found that you too seem to know your onions well. I also find your posts quite balanced, in general. So there!

None of the "experts/gurus" that I was seeking to draw out, to tell us ignorant ones more about this car have responded so far.

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

I'm sure everyone involved was glad to be of assistance in the general amusement and merriment.

Like I said, what you call "the general amusement and merriment" aside, the quest for knowledge remains unfulfilled because not "everyone" has gotten involved yet!

Oh btw, there used to be a gentleman with the handle 71 Convertible or some such (his real name is probably Vyas, or something like that) - from what I had observed of him, he seemed to possess some genuine knowledge about VWs (I am serious, which is why I have taken a name - assiduously avoided otherwise. It is not said in any other way, so not to be misconstrued by anybody, please), but he hasn't been very active on this forum of late - I am sure he could pinpoint it correctly. However, I would still wish to hear from our experienced experts!

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

But what was the punchline?

1. Prabal Ji is the actual owner of this 'jerman war' example and has changed all parts including chassis, body, wheels etc to that of a later model?

Nix, I am not the owner of this car, nor have anything else to do with it, whatsoever!

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

2. Prabal Ji weeds out fake ads of real cars and feigns ignorance about the model year?

Nope again. Although rhyming with nope (it's synonym, i.e.), that word 'weed' had got my attention for a second. But, the answer to above is negative too!

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

3. Prabal Ji and Harit Ji have formed a mutual admiration society, where they meet and consume obscene quantities of Parle Ji dipped in hot tea and discuss the next "Googly" to be pulled off on team-bhp?

Negative once more; it's been a long time since I last met Haritji. And the brew we had together then was certainly not tea! We didn't meet in Bombay and our discussion was certain not vile - so no biscuit, no meet at Vile Parle either! Cricket wasn't on the agenda, so no googly no spin. The forum may have figured, may be not most likely or not much, if at all - it's really not that important. Not to me at least!

EDIT:

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

It's all very confusing to me.. wish someone would explain !

I hope my answers have been of some help.

[PAVAN KADAM]

Wow, what a fuss about a Beetle. Prabal sir, i know what i said earlier in some post, not denying at all, no need to do so too

http://pune.olx.in/vintage-car-for-sale-iid-558179683

Mr Kedar Khopde ( advertiser ) who is unknown to me, is very busy and not interested in attending calls after advertising a Pandora's box, which is baffling. And lot of members here are making merry with words and taking this thread let me try and have a chat with Mr Kedar ( advertiser ) and update here as everyone seems to be too intrigued to know whatabouts of this very VW Bug, rather than being a little informative.

You can never get it right when it comes to Beetle's in India, as everyone would have changed parts for their kind of utility / requirement sometime ago when it was in use. If i need to make an assesment of the Model Year, going by the 4 lug wheels on the car, its definitely a post 67 model. LOL it can be a typo error too, maybe the seller would have typed 1947 instead of 1974.

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

Wow, what a fuss about a Beetle. Prabal sir, i know what i said earlier in some post, not denying at all, no need to do so too

http://pune.olx.in/vintage-car-for-sale-iid-558179683

Mr Kedar Khopde ( advertiser ) who is unknown to me, is very busy and not interested in attending calls after advertising a Pandora's box, which is baffling. And lot of members here are making merry with words and taking this thread let me try and have a chat with Mr Kedar ( advertiser ) and update here as everyone seems to be too intrigued to know whatabouts of this very VW Bug, rather than being a little informative.

You can never get it right when it comes to Beetle's in India, as everyone would have changed parts for their kind of utility / requirement sometime ago when it was in use. If i need to make an assesment of the Model Year, going by the 4 lug wheels on the car, its definitely a post 67 model. LOL it can be a typo error too, maybe the seller would have typed 1947 instead of 1974.

EDIT : The said car is SOLD and supposed to be a 1974 with 1986 documents as per Mr Kedar Khopde, who also owns few other Beetle's. Very dubious as he was not interested in continuing conversation. I hope, This might put an end to the above discussion.

[Prabal]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

Wow, what a fuss about a Beetle. Prabal sir, i know what i said earlier in some post, not denying at all, no need to do so too

Really? I have seen lots of fuss over Beetles here before. And attempts at creating a buzz around some too!!

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

Mr Kedar Khopde ( advertiser ) who is unknown to me, is very busy and not interested in attending calls after advertising a Pandora's box, which is baffling.

His car his wish. But like you, it's baffling others too - hence the discusions, starting with the model year (whether a typo, or not) to the advertiser's inaccessibility.

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

And lot of members here are making merry with words and taking this thread let me try and have a chat with Mr Kedar ( advertiser ) and update here as everyone seems to be too intrigued to know whatabouts of this very VW Bug, rather than being a little informative.

Nothing OT here - everything has pertained to a classic car for sale. Good if you can get info from the advertiser, since apparently others have been unable to touch base with him. Actually, as far as I am concerned, there is no intrigue about what it is. But being in the august company of experts/gurus I didn't want to jump the gun (I am also always afraid of being wrong!). However, now that you have admitted that you don't know (without saying it in so many words, though), and a couple of other gentlemen who seem to know everything too have not responded, I'll put in my two bit.

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

You can never get it right when it comes to Beetle's in India, as everyone would have changed parts for their kind of utility / requirement sometime ago when it was in use. If i need to make an assesment of the Model Year, going by the 4 lug wheels on the car, its definitely a post 67 model. LOL it can be a typo error too, maybe the seller would have typed 1947 instead of 1974.

Total misinformation! You can get it right more often than not, if you KNOW. I have come across this comment often, but while it is true to an extent, it is pertinent more if with ref to the new cars produced in VW factories, across model-years as well as different specs followed at different production facilities in the same year (btw, the confusing mix of parts across models is sometimes jokingly referred to as Hitler's revenge in the VW circles!). Unless an old car has been bodily modified, it is not difficult to place it in a bracket of year-range. Cosmetic changes too, as anything cosmetic is understood to be, are usually so superficial that it doesn't throw the estimation too off-kilter. However, if a car is extensively customised/modified (whatever the causative factor/or motivation be) that it veers so far away to become difficult to tell, then of course that's different.

BUT, this car in the advertisement is actually still very original!!

Now, I'll hang my head out... if my eyes are not playing tricks, and I am correctly spotting the indentation for the 'eyebrow' vent behind the rear window (that's punched and louvers fitted in other specs), then this is a late 1970 to early 1973, most probably a '71-'72. And a plain vanilla 1200 at that! Just in case the vents are an optical illusion to me (which I doubt, but am open to correction), then she's a '68-'70! Now everybody (interested), look at the four pics in the advert, and check for the vent, please!

EDIT:

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

EDIT : The said car is SOLD and supposed to be a 1974 with 1986 documents as per Mr Kedar Khopde, who also owns few other Beetle's. Very dubious as he was not interested in continuing conversation. I hope, This might put an end to the above discussion.

CAN NOT be a 1974 - with just the indentation for the vent, and that tail light! The highlighted part leaves no doubts about the seller's veracity either. So, I stick with my estimation being more accurate, and comprehensive.

Kindly also bear with me, as I am travelling with limited access to the net, and copious amounts of coconut water in the stomach in Goa - so please overlook any typo(s).

Hope, the discussion on this Beetle has not only been amusing, but also informative. Plus, eye openers are desirable, no? For me, some shut-eye now more so (it's okay at 10 in the morning after you've been swimming for a couple of hours already)! Gotta check out that splendid thing in the thong as well...India Bike Week awaits as well, in a bit. Cheers too!!

[harit]

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

Why, where else would it come from ?!? .... ....But what was the punchline? ........3. Prabal Ji and Harit Ji have formed a mutual admiration society, where they meet and consume obscene quantities of Parle Ji dipped in hot tea and discuss the next "Googly" to be pulled off on team-bhp? .......!

I asked about 1947 because I was hoping that someone would also enlighten us about the oldest Beetle in India. We have never seen the rear split glass car supposed to be stashed away in some secret location. Kasli, you must have seen it. So whose Beetle is the oldest survivor, I know Karl's is very old.
Unfortunately Prabal has not been able to share hot tea with me because he does not come to Mumbai, and I don't go to Delhi. It seems that he went directly to probably Goa bypassing our city which I can understand. Goa is so much more attractive. BTW, what is Parle Ji? Can these be barbequed?
I was willing to share tea with you in Bangalore in November but unfortunately you could not make it.

Originally Posted by Prabal

Thank you, Ajay ji, but I have absolutely no illusions of being a pioneer/guide/specialist, or whatever, on VWs or any other marque, whatsoever. .... Volkswagen guru here had once rightly mentioned on the forum that by writing an article in a publication one doesn't become knowledgeable about automobiles, ......Harit G, I wish it were a blonde bombshell who'd started a riot instead! ........ ....Unfortunately, the experts aren't sharing their knowledge with us. ...........Like I said, what you call "the general amusement and merriment" aside, the quest for knowledge remains unfulfilled because not "everyone" has gotten involved yet!...............Negative once more; it's been a long time since I last met Haritji. And the brew ........

All the troubles have caused you to be apparently in Goa to update your practical knowledge on Beetles as Gurus only talk and experts don't share. Maybe you will even find that "split" Beetle. Goa was a haven for pre 1961 Beetles till they left the beaches and came to other part of India, unfortunately many had cosmetic surgeries done to their rear ends (the glass ofcourse). So finding a genuine Beetle with genuine parts meant for that year can be a challenge. Ofcourse if you look for the cars after "high tea" the evening haze and misty fog may cloud your sight and judgement. That is still ok with a Beetle, defects can be tackled , but becareful with the shells, the blonde may be a bomb not noticed with strange aromas floating around.

Originally Posted by Prabal

Really? I have seen lots of fuss over Beetles here before. ...... (I am also always afraid of being wrong!). However, now that you have admitted that you don't know (without saying it in so many words, though), and a couple of other gentlemen who seem to know everything ....has been bodily modified, it is not difficult to place it in a bracket of year-range. Cosmetic changes too, as anything cosmetic is understood to be, are usually so superficial that it doesn't throw the estimation too off-kilter. .....extensively customised/modified (whatever the causative factor/or motivation be) that it veers so far away to become difficult to tell, then of course that's different. .... ..... ......... Kindly also bear with me, as I am travelling with limited access to the net, and copious amounts of coconut water in the stomach in Goa - so please overlook any typo(s).......... For me, some shut-eye now more so (it's okay at 10 in the morning after you've been swimming for a couple of hours already)! Gotta check out that splendid thing in the thong as well...India Bike Week awaits as well, in a bit. Cheers too!!

That how I know its Goa, mentioned in public domain, no secret club. But Beetles and shells are increasingly mixed up here, see the relevant parts of the above quote. Its never been so obvious that life is about joy and fun, eye candy articles some faked, modified by cosmetic surgery, but still eye candy. One has to ensure the real deal before ones senses get cloudy, sometimes it does not matter. After all some items are meant to be passed on which is why an ad was inserted in the first place. And gully cricket started with googlys bowled. Better to stop or we will get sick, stomach has to digest.
How I wish I was in Goa
EDIT, a tip for all those in Goa. Shells of various kind can be found on the beach, live ones even in the sea.

Cheers harit
Mumbai weather forecasts for the evening is likely to be cloudy

[thebulletboy]

Originally Posted by harit

We have never seen the rear split glass car supposed to be stashed away in some secret location.

I think everyone has only heard of this vehicle. No one I know has actually seen it or photographed it. Still, I can hope that it does in fact exist.

Originally Posted by harit

So whose Beetle is the oldest survivor, I know Karl's is very old.

Karl had compiled a list of Ovals in India some years ago :

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/post-w...ml#post1518196

Add to this, the MYV blue oval in Bangalore and another Red oval seen in Mysore a decade ago which has since disappeared.
I'm sure a few more will pop up.

As to which one is the oldest, I can't say for sure, but 'dating' all these ovals will definitely be an interesting exercise, especially if some of them are eye candy !

Originally Posted by harit

... BTW, what is Parle Ji? Can these be barbequed?
I was willing to share tea with you in Bangalore in November but unfortunately you could not make it.

Unfortunately we were unable to meet.
A combination of first time parenthood and sleep deprivation means that one worries unnecessarily and jumps the gun prematurely..
I hope we meet the next time around. And I'm sure the brew will be more interesting than hot tea!

Originally Posted by harit

.. as Gurus only talk and experts don't share.

I think there are various reasons for this, which if mentioned here would unfortunately be deemed off-topic, and promptly deleted.

The primary reason (that I will mention) is that for an online community dealing with older automobiles, many of us do not, or cannot discuss technical aspects of restoration.
We are generally more content with receiving and giving comments on aesthetics.
How much interest would a thread titled "How to rebuild a VW engine as per company specs" really generate on team-bhp?

In my experience the best way to pick up practical experience is not just to work on these cars, but to work part-time as an apprentice to an older, wiser mechanic. For whatever reason, they are generally more willing to share quality knowledge.

Originally Posted by harit

unfortunately many had cosmetic surgeries done to their rear ends (the glass ofcourse).

Interesting that you should mention this. In fact the red oval in Mysore was largely upgraded to 1968 specs !!
I guess "modernised" cars fetched better money back in the day.
The trend has certainly reversed now. If I had a penny for everytime I was asked, "How difficult is it to create a Split Bug", I could probably retire.
A thread with this title would probably generate a whole lot of interest. A disturbing trend indeed.

[karlosdeville]

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

As to which one is the oldest, I can't say for sure, but 'dating' all these ovals will definitely be an interesting exercise, especially if some of them are eye candy !

The oldest one documented is the red Dharmasthala Oval (wearing plate MAJ 5945). I think 67Bug had seen the chassis number and identified it as a '55. Sid, please correct me if I'm wrong. Mine is a 56, Bombay car is a 57. The gold oval in Goa is twin tailpipe, so again 56, not sure about the cream car. The Hyderabad car in pink primer had the older batwing steering wheel but again twin pipes, so uncertain.

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

The primary reason (that I will mention) is that for an online community dealing with older automobiles, many of us do not, or cannot discuss technical aspects of restoration.
We are generally more content with receiving and giving comments on aesthetics.
How much interest would a thread titled "How to rebuild a VW engine as per company specs" really generate on team-bhp?

Completely agree, and it is unfortunate, though I believe that if an effort is made by those who can, it can pick up. Regrettably I myself cannot contribute simply because I'm no grease monkey.

[schakravarthy]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

The oldest one documented is the red Dharmasthala Oval (wearing plate MAJ 5945). I think 67Bug had seen the chassis number and identified it as a '55. Sid, please correct me if I'm wrong.

A post card I had bought long ago from there mentions it as a 1950 model. But I don't know how accurate or exaggerated that claim is.

[vinay kamath]

I learnt that a Government mining company called MYSORE MINERALS LTD at Bangalore with email : ed.mml@nic.in & PH: 080-25580373 kind attn : MR UDAY KUMAR IFS , is soon to dispose over thirty classic bikes, jeeps , cars and trucks bearing old registration numbers such as of MYH, MES, MYA, MYE, CAN, CAM, CAN, CAY & CNQ series etc used by their staff.

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by schakravarthy

A post card I had bought long ago from there mentions it as a 1950 model. But I don't know how accurate or exaggerated that claim is.

Attachment 1193043



Attachment 1193044

It is indeed exaggerated, look at the below pics of the same car .

[the mole]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

The oldest one documented is the red Dharmasthala Oval (wearing plate MAJ 5945). I think 67Bug had seen the chassis number and identified it as a '55. Sid, please correct me if I'm wrong. Mine is a 56, Bombay car is a 57. The gold oval in Goa is twin tailpipe, so again 56, not sure about the cream car. The Hyderabad car in pink primer had the older batwing steering wheel but again twin pipes, so uncertain.

I am puzzled as to why such few pre 60's beetles survived when so many pre 50's Fiats, Ambassadors, Morris etc survived or were they defaced with upgradations like the oval we found on one of our trips which had a much later rear windscreen. And then there is also interstate movement which really removes a lot of history of the car.

[Sherlocked]

A 1970 Ford Falcon for sale in Ranchi. The seller appears to be a dealer though looking at the other ads posted by the same user.

http://ranchi.olx.in/1970muscle-car-...-iid-591056899