[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by Stanher

Which exactly was my point!
Incidentally, this reminds me of a conversation I had with a collector from Pune once, who has a vintage car with a Mysore state (MY) series regn. I asked him how he still has the old regn. and he replied that it was never transferred to MH, so regn. never changed. So then I asked him how would one in that case, manage with the fitness renewal etc. and he said "Who would check all that? For these cars?"

Exactly and apart from that no one really bothers with such issues. If you own a rolls royce or a bentley tomorrow will you go and get the fitness done if it is pending for 20 years ? Its not practical to do such things with these cars.

Originally Posted by mycarhasablower

Well as you said a large number of classic cars in delhi ae registered in other states, maybe they dont have papers at all an the numberplates adorn them for authenticity purposes, but there could be some that have complete papers as well.

You maybe correct on that but the out station cars will soon also not have everthing upto date if the owner decides to keep it.As i said before who is going to take the trouble to transport the car from one city to another just for getting the FC done ? If it is a rare car then you don't want to get into the stress of moving the car from one place to another and then bringing it back. Not worth it at all!

Originally Posted by mycarhasablower

It is a known fact that in most states you will be given a hard time if your car doesnt have a registration plate from that state. Delhi is one of the only places in the country where cops dont fuss over this issue. Well illl say i am lucky to be living in delhi but having complete documents is part of the authenticity of a classic. That the car is no less than it was in its haydays.

That is again as i mentioned above for newer cars and not for Classic cars and i am not considering Fiats , landmasters and SS 80 etc in this list. Not only delhi but all other cities create any fuss over classic cars.If you see the thread i gave you the link to , there is a team-bhpian who got caught by a cop for a traffic violation and the cop asked for his license and not for any documents of the car.
Even without all the documents complete no concource condition classic car is less than what it was in its haydays. A car is not good or bad by looking at the documentation

Originally Posted by mycarhasablower

People like to keep the original reg. no. of the car for authenticity purpose, you could say i like to go the extra mile and i like to keep the papers complete as well.

What do you plan to do when you buy a vintage car that has got tax arrears for more than 30 years ? Going to pay tax for 30 years to get it in order which may even cost more that the value of the car ? Not a prcatical solution.

Originally Posted by mycarhasablower

To each their own. Some collectors may never drive their cars anywhere except rallies, but i prefer to keep my options open, and want to be able to drive the car whenever i want to where ever i want to.

How do you know which collector is driving his cars only to the rallies and not regulerly. There are certain collectors whom i know drive one car everyday to work and the cars may or may not have valid documents so with that i don't think he is not keeping his options open. You can drive your car whenever you want to but then the where ever is contradicting everything that you just above. If tomorrow supposing you get a job in another city and you decide to move and settle down there and you take your classic along with you but according to the norms you can't transfer it their and if you recide there on a permanent basis then would you be coming back to delhi evertime your car need a FC. Not practical at all.

On the other hand if you get a collectors car and it has no documents what so ever and has got a number plate of an out station state then what you won't buy the car just because it has no documents?

Originally Posted by mycarhasablower

Ps: Last year i had a major crash with a police gypsy in wich both cars were totalled. I am thanking my stars for my obsession with keeping the documents complete otherwise i would have been in a much bigger mess than i am in now. And for this reason i dont want to compromise on the legality bit of owning a car

Was this crash with a classic car or a new reguler driving car? The obession should be there with everyone but the same can't be applied for classic cars. Apart from having the documentation in order a person has to be practical in their approach about these things and you have to be flexible eveything cannot be done according to the LAW and the rules.We have to adjust and make do with whatever is available.

Originally Posted by ajay99

As you may have noticed some people are really excited when they see a vintage/classic are available without papers/documents.
that is really a disturbing trend

I don't get why they get excited with cars which have no documents. They probably are thinking that they might get it cheaper without documents than with documents.

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

A rare car not having document does not demerit the car from being restored, I consider it "Sacrilege" to abandon rare cars because there are no documents

Exactly and in such cases we need to be practical in our approach to see that these cars are up and running and then just use them.

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

Just like we get a spare engine for a car, you can as well search for the document and attach them. Also a heavy percentage of lovely exotic cars across India with many collectors dont have proper documents.

When a Classic is Available, it is Classic Available, whatever condition it maybe in, it might also serve as a Donor car.

One of the solutions to this problem of no documents and apart from that some cars are badly gone and are best used as donor cars but if it can be saved then there is nothing like it.

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

There are different ways a true restorer has to look into such cars.

I completely agree with you on this point .

Originally Posted by mycarhasablower

However i also agree with ajay on the need for complete documentation, it only increases the value of the car and saves you a lot of hassle. So if by any means (including getting papers from a scrapped car and etching the engine)it is possible to get the paperwork completed , id rather spend a month running around and get it done (and bask in the satisfaction of owning a truly priceless classic) than just give up without trying and just decide to be lazy.

Trust me whenever i see any classic rotting away i feel a verryyy strong urge to obtain it and restore it, but limitations like time and money just dont let certain things materialize.

Also restoring a car takes a lot more time for me than it does for most of you since i like to do pretty much everything myself. engine, bodywork, suspension, painting.

So what may not be a sensible project for me mayb a gold mine for another.In the end we all together are just trying to save these classics, it isnt one mans job.

Now we seem to be on the same lines of thinking . Thank god for that

Originally Posted by mycarhasablower

@ajay: i must reiterate the fact that i dont support the idea of scrapping cars just cuz they dont have documents. there are collectors that keep their cars like museum exhibits and these are never driven, such cars make perfect aquisitions for these collectors. And you never know if how the law changes tomorrow, cuz if they allow re registration of these cars tomorrow you might end up kicking urself for wanting to scrap them.

There is no point in having priceless cars and then just keeping them for public display and never drive them and just look at them and admire them. I would instead say its better to give that car to someone who would instead use the car and enjoy it and the person who keeps it in the museum to admire it can maybe go and admire the car with someone else who will take better care of it. Apart from that it has been noticed that cars that are being used are looked after better than the cars kept in a museum. In a museum only the looks are seen not the other bits of the car like originality and mechanicals.

Originally Posted by mycarhasablower

(How I wish that team bhp can be reason behind a change in the laws that makes life easier for all vintage and classic car collectors in india. If one supreme curt ruling can make things difficult for us , another can make laws that make owning classics a cakewalk)

Many of us want that but our forum has its own limitations and difficulties so lets hope for the bast anyway.



Can we now get back on track and get look for some more classics available for purchase?

[harit]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

The papers should be there but they don't have to be a delhi registration . Since its an old car the laws are a bit more relaxed for it. Check the number of outstation classic cars that are in delhi today. There is no such hard and fast rule that it is very important.

This is incorrect. There is no official excemption or relaxation of rules for old cars. If there are a number of old outstation cars in Delhi and they were to flout the rules, that would not be a justification. And a number of outstation cars in Delhi do have docs upto date.

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

Your posts look confusing to me. But what (1)i could gather quite a bit from it.
Anyway you don't need to RE-REGISTER or transfer your car here in delhi. You can (2)use the existing registration and drive the car with out any problems. However i am aware of the supreme court ruling and have also seen cars here with out-station numbers belonging to very close friends of mine. The car is used regulerly and without any problems. (3)This only applies to vintage and classic cars and not reguler cars. On this forum and speacially this section. On the other hand what you are saying is true that you cannot RE-REGISTER but (4)hardly the cops stop any classic car here. If it was a Honda city or something like thing then you would have had loads of problems.

Sir most of the cars in india just have registration numbers but (5)most owners do not have any papers in true sense. The cars are being used on a reguler basis and apart from that (6)even if you give a temp delhi address in another state it wouldn't really matter. Apart from that (7)hardly anyone gets the fitness done for such cars. Most of them would be unfit to run due to the emissions.

1) How brilliant, na?
2) Provided docs are completely in order.
3) Do you not see modern cars in Delhi with out of state registration? In fact it was in Delhi that I saw for the first time registration plates from some of the north eastern states. My understanding is that you can use any private car anywhere in India provided docs are in order. In some cases there may be a time period limitation, this is often overlooked for vintage and classic cars. But basic docs must be upto date.
4) Again not true, I know of a vintage car event in Delhi where cops asked for docs and a phone call settled the issue.
5) Are you sure? Maybe in Bengal or in Tamil Nadu where they do not have life time tax and dues with interst have accumulated to lacs of Rupees. I feel that you cannot make such a general statement.
6) Are you serious? It should be the other way round, temp. address in another state to register the car there, have all requirements met and then use the car in Delhi. Strictly not legal, but atleast papers are intact.
7) Again, are you sure? I know of a 1959 good condition classic car hauled up for not being able to produce a fitness certificate and the fine was Rs 3000/- in Mumbai.

Unfortunately this post is very misleading. Be careful. If a cop in Delhi were to catch a car with incomplete docs, the owner cannot say that what he is doing is OK because Indrojit of tbhp said so!

Originally Posted by mycarhasablower

Well i like my cars papers in order. Its a peace of mind thing. What else can be a proof of your ownership. Also the relaxation in rules for classics is a rule that is there in delhi too, including emissions, just that cars from other states can be brought in. AFAIK there is no exception for classics from other states. But i have never got definite clear answers on these questions. I think ill file an RTI if i have extra time on my hands sometime soon
@stanher: clearing fitness test is no problem for a fully restored car AFAIK

Correct and well said. If papers of a car owned are not in order, then one should spend money and do the needful. About the RTI, a club should take that up. We as individual car lovers are in a real minority, the votes of us minority do not count in an election, so do not expect to be entertained. And end up having the RTI dismissed with costs.

Originally Posted by Stanher

Which exactly was my point!
Incidentally, this reminds me of a conversation I had with a collector from Pune once, who has a vintage car with a Mysore state (MY) series regn. I asked him how he still has the old regn. and he replied that it was never transferred to MH, so regn. never changed. So then I asked him how would one in that case, manage with the fitness renewal etc. and he said "Who would check all that? For these cars?"

The Mysore state papers would have to be upto date, and fitness should also be upto date. Then he will have peace of mind. Otherwise, there is a slight chance that someone will catch him one day. And it will cost money in fines.

Originally Posted by mycarhasablower

Well as you said a large number of classic cars in delhi ae registered in other states, maybe they dont have papers at all an the numberplates adorn them for authenticity purposes, but there could be some that have complete papers as well. It is a known fact that in most states you will be given a hard time if your car doesnt have a registration plate from that state. Delhi is one of the only places in the country where cops dont fuss over this issue. Well illl say i am lucky to be living in delhi but having complete documents is part of the authenticity of a classic. That the car is no less than it was in its haydays. People like to keep the original reg. no. of the car for authenticity purpose, you could say i like to go the extra mile and i like to keep the papers complete as well.

To each their own. Some collectors may never drive their cars anywhere except rallies, but i prefer to keep my options open, and want to be able to drive the car whenever i want to where ever i want to.

Ps: Last year i had a major crash with a police gypsy in wich both cars were totalled. I am thanking my stars for my obsession with keeping the documents complete otherwise i would have been in a much bigger mess than i am in now. And for this reason i dont want to compromise on the legality bit of owning a car

I think most of the outstate cars in Delhi do have papers.
Your PS says it all. If an unexpected problem does happen, it can be expensive. Even insurance is very important, specially when the unexpected occurs.

Originally Posted by ajay99

it is welcome to see people like you prefering to have cars with clear documents/papers.
as you may have noticed some people are really excited when they see a vintage/classic are available without papers/documents.
that is really a disturbing trend

Why disturbing? a car without papers is expected to be cheaper, na?

Originally Posted by mycarhasablower

I completely
agree with PAVAN, that a car just because it doesnt have documents has no value is so not right. But i have little money to spare , particularly cuz its not my money and i dont earn yet(i am in college) so i need to get maximum out of every penny. Thats why i asked if the vw bus has papers. that just applies to me, that if i take the bus ill need the papers, i am in no way discouraging others from taking it up as a project.

I being a hardcore automobile aficionado treat cars as if they were living like us; the same respect and care.

However i also agree with ajay on the need for complete documentation, it only increases the value of the car and saves you a lot of hassle. So if by any means (including getting papers from a scrapped car and etching the engine)it is possible to get the paperwork completed , id rather spend a month running around and get it done (and bask in the satisfaction of owning a truly priceless classic) than just give up without trying and just decide to be lazy.

Trust me whenever i see any classic rotting away i feel a verryyy strong urge to obtain it and restore it, but limitations like time and money just dont let certain things materialize.

@ajay: i must reiterate the fact that i dont support the idea of scrapping cars just cuz they dont have documents. there are collectors that keep their cars like museum exhibits and these are never driven, such cars make perfect aquisitions for these collectors. And you never know if how the law changes tomorrow, cuz if they allow re registration of these cars tomorrow you might end up kicking urself for wanting to scrap them. (How I wish that team bhp can be reason behind a change in the laws that makes life easier for all vintage and classic car collectors in india. If one supreme curt ruling can make things difficult for us , another can make laws that make owning classics a cakewalk)

I was in college too when I started.

Be careful about the use of any means, you must keep it legal, whatever you do by any means!!

I started the same way, collected cars with deficient books. And one day the Govt of Maharashtra came up with a scheme called Abhay Yojna, where they accepted overdue taxes for 6 months without charging interest, and then 3 months more charging just 10% interest. I cleared a lot of my taxes at that time, all required was a VCCCI certificate. In fact I spent a few days at the RTO, and the only other guy I saw doing the same thing was the WIAA man. At that time I also cleared a lot of books for my friends.

Guys, upto date documentation of your vintage and classics is a serious issue, and one should do whatever to have valid books complete with tax upto date, fitness, PUC and insurance. That ensures peace of mind.

Cheers harit

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by harit

Unfortunately this post is very misleading. Be careful. If a cop in Delhi were to catch a car with incomplete docs, the owner cannot say that what he is doing is OK because Indrojit of tbhp said so!

Cheers harit

I really love your humour. The quoted post by you also comes with a disclaimer tag which i forgot to give with it. But on a serious note there are many things i do not agree with you and your reply but will let it be and not go more and more off topic. I would love to meet up with you sometime or speak to you away from this forum and discuss many things. Hope you would spare some of your time for me.

[ajay99]

((Correct and well said. If papers of a car owned are not in order, then one should spend money and do the needful. About the RTI, a club should take that up. We as individual car lovers are in a real minority, the votes of us minority do not count in an election, so do not expect to be entertained. And end up having the RTI dismissed with costs.))
fully with you harit,on documentation /paying taxes due
I think you have mistaken RTI (Right to information) with PIL(Public Interest Litigation).
No office is supposed to dismiss/ignore information seeked under RTI.
You can get information you seek (except classified documents) from all offices as per RTI ACT 2005 and this has helped many individuals getting many of their grievances addressed.

[harit]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

I really love your humour. The quoted post by you also comes with a disclaimer tag which i forgot to give with it. But on a serious note there are many things i do not agree with you and your reply but will let it be and not go more and more off topic. I would love to meet up with you sometime or speak to you away from this forum and discuss many things. Hope you would spare some of your time for me.

I too love my humour. And so do many others, but again some do not.
BTW, why post something with a forgotton disclaimer tag? You can still put that up.
You can PM me your number, I will call you.

Originally Posted by ajay99

((Correct and well said. If papers of a car owned are not in order, then one should spend money and do the needful. About the RTI, a club should take that up. We as individual car lovers are in a real minority, the votes of us minority do not count in an election, so do not expect to be entertained. And end up having the RTI dismissed with costs.))
fully with you harit,on documentation /paying taxes due
I think you have mistaken RTI (Right to information) with PIL(Public Interest Litigation).
No office is supposed to dismiss/ignore information seeked under RTI.
You can get information you seek (except classified documents) from all offices as per RTI ACT 2005 and this has helped many individuals getting many of their grievances addressed.

Ajay, you are right, thanks for pointing this out, I meant PIL which can be dismissed, RTI can but should not be ignored. Slip of the tip (of the finger on the keyboard)

Cheers harit

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by harit

I too love my humour. And so do many others, but again some do not.
BTW, why post something with a forgotton disclaimer tag? You can still put that up.
You can PM me your number, I will call you.


Cheers harit

DISCLAIMER - All the above posts are subject to personal opinion and may be tried by an individual but the person writing this is however not responsible for any problems in the real world off this forum.


Sending the PM.

[cmdalvi]

chill guys
i think we are all taking this too far
relax and lets get back to looking for classics for purchase

[allana13]

Originally Posted by cmdalvi

chill guys
i think we are all taking this too far
relax and lets get back to looking for classics for purchase

Well said....
I think people here waste too much time on who said what and if its wrong or right..... Who cares if its wrong or right or whatever.... This discussion is about classics so lets stick to that rather than talking about useless things that are not adding any value to the discussion.

[cmdalvi]

i do think that there is a lot of useful info that surfaces during healthy debates, but then i think we should stop when it starts getting a little sarcastic and mean

no offence to anyone here

[V-16]

raizada, will you reveal the asking price if the bus please?

[cmdalvi]

hey guys

I have been offered this '73 - '77 oldsmobile cutlass 2 door coupe for sale
V8, automatic

the agent insists its a '66-'71 model, but i think its a '73-'77
he didnt have a clue on the p.d , so it could be anything from 4.3 to 7.5

He insists it is in a running condition with original engine and the works

asking price : around 6.5 L
any comments

[V-16]

cmdalvi, i think the dealer has many more cars, Is his BMW and Cadillac for sale as well? if from the same dealer, please check the tax position before buying.
Once again i request Raizada to either reveal the price of the VW split bus if known.

[cmdalvi]

@ v-16
Dont have any info on the bm and caddy
you know this guy, what do you think about the oldsmobile ?
thanks for the info, though

reg
CD

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by V-16

Once again i request Raizada to either reveal the price of the VW split bus if known.

Last heard from one Delhi Dealer about that Split Bus.

" sirjee engine nahi hain, par dont worry, mein intazaam kar doonga"

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

Last heard from one Delhi Dealer about that Split Bus.

" sirjee engine nahi hain, par dont worry, mein intazaam kar doonga"

I remember a dealer selling me one bus with everything complete. Will try and look for the pics and put them up here.