[girishpv]

Originally Posted by V-16

Found out about the Debonair.
As i had said, the transmission is crashed. Dont know exactly what is the problem. He wants to sell it at 1 lac. If someone is genuinely interested ill take the trouble of negotiating

Sorry Gogi sir, forget it then, no need of taking trouble

Thanks
Girish

[Prabal]

Originally Posted by Ram

I believe the Debonair was sold only in Japan. So you guys know where you might have to source parts from.

So how did it find its way into India then?
Could have been imported by a NRI returning from Japan. How convenient that all cars in Japan are RHD.

Letting my imagination run wild, it might as well have been a Japanese consulate car which got scrapped in the open market, when no longer wanted. No offense to anybody.

Not so sure about it not being sold in other markets, because I know someone who got his in from South Africa (of course a Right Hand Drive market too). Delhi used to have quite a few of these; I remember seeing them with friends, acquaintances, strangers on the road, well till the early 90s. These cars were "fully loaded", but still seemed like wannabe Toyota Crowns and Nissan Presidents. Although Mitsubishis and Mazdas were otherwise considered the most European of all Jap cars, the Deb was quite outdated, IMO. Silver and Black seemed to be the most common colours plying here. This one's colour combo is quite interesting though - Kitsch or Geisha-like?!

[kasli]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

I suppose this is the same location? Came across it on a flickr album.

This is a Bangalore snap. On st marks road.

Originally Posted by Benson

Saw this Pontiac rusting away in Goa. Looks like it has been discarded recently.

Not blanking out number plates since the car is lying in scrapyard.

Note from the Support Staff: Please don't use external image hosting websites in future.

Can you please give me some details as to where in GOA did you see this car.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Incidentally my grandfather at IIT Powai used to drive a similar Wolseley. BMY 6*** I forget at the moment. No pics unfortunately. It was sold to a driving school back in the 70s itself.

When Ajinkya and I visited the home of Behram and Cyrus Dhabhar,
among zillions of artifacts he had put away, Behram showed me a pair of Lucas foglamps that had come from a silver 1957 Wolseley 4/44 [BML 7349] that he had put 8000 miles on, while in engineering college in 1979.

That Wolseley provoked a long story, and car buffs like myself and Aju really enjoy listening to Behram's narrative.

Behram also showed me a manual for the 4/44 with a supplement for the Wolseley 15/50.

Both cars shared the same bodies but different engines.
The 4/44 had a Morris 1250 cc XPAG [46 bhp] engine with a column shifter. This was discontinued in 1956 and replaced with a Landmaster/Ambassador type BMC B-series 1489 cc [55 bhp] engine and a shifter on the floor.

Here's a sketch I have made.

The traditional Wolseley radiator grille on both the 4/44 and the 15/50 had a lighted badge.

The Wolseley 15/50 had a Lockheed Manumatic gearshift. This had limit switches on the gearshift that would activate a vacuum servo.

This would synchronize an electric clutch-operating mechanism to declutch the engine from the gearbox when the gear lever was gated to upshift or downshift.

Tell'em about it Behram.

Ram

[SuperSelect]

Ram, you are wonderful at sketching ! That traditional Wolseley grille you've drawn, along with the "winged W" hood ornament gave me the goosebumps , and brought back pleasant memories of BMZ 2952, the 1948 green Wolseley Eight.
Way back in 1984 when we had her, I had made contact with the three other roadworthy Wolseley eight owners, mostly in the Girgaum and Opera House locality.
By the way Karl, a similar 1948 Eight used to be parked at the petrol pump at Hughes road (which now has the drool-worthy Porsche showroom) till about three years ago. Fairly complete, in black, she belonged to the pump's owner. Don't know what happened subsequently.

[vintagepoint5]

Very nice sketch Ram, great! keep coming more sketches if you have done more. Also I would like to request our friends to write more about Morris, Wolsely, MG's. I read once in article MG's were using Morris chassis modified to look sporty and enhanced power etc. I am sure our Team BHPians experts may have value knowledge to share with us.

Regards,

[Ram]

Originally Posted by vintagepoint5

Very nice sketch Ram, great! keep coming more sketches if you have done more.

Also I would like to request our friends to write more about Morris, Wolseley, MGs. I read once in article MGs were using Morris chassis modified to look sporty and enhanced power etc. I am sure our Team BHPian experts may have value knowledge to share with us.

Regards,

Thanks for the kind words, SuperSelect and vintagepoint5. Every creative soul thrives on all the adulation he/she can receive.

SuperSelect, do you have a picture of your 1948 green Wolseley Eight?
Was she british racing green or more of a pale pista jade?

MG stands for Morris Garages. They were the distributor for Morris cars in Oxford: city and county town of Oxfordshire, in South East England.
MG was also owned by William Morris, who became First Viscount Lord Nuffield.

Since 1922, they started modifying standard Morris Cowleys, lowering the chassis and fitting more sporty bodywork.

http://www.mgcars.org.uk/news/news128.html

[SuperSelect]

No Ram, I have no pictures. Sadly, she's faded away into the hall of memories, and will remain there for an eternity.

Of course, she was British racing green.

Her first owner was Dr. G. K. Kale, a distant grand-uncle, a medical practicioner from Opera House who bought her new from Dadajee Dhackjee. His son, also a Doctor, inherited her, and my father finally bought her in 1982. Somewhere around 1985 she was sold. I was too young to do anything about it, and that was it.

Incidentally some trivia: Wolseley was among the first British auto makes, and was started by none other than Sir Herbert Austin, who worked for The Wolseley Sheep Shearing machinery Co. in Birmingham. The first Wolseley was a tricycle car, with one wheel at the rear and two in front. Sir Austin later went on to found the Austin Motor Co.

[vintageman]

Hello All ,

Atached photo of the Wolseley awaiting restoration

[xoticars]

There was a post here about the Wolsley 4/44 car, and thought I should share this. I have just helped get a similar car going, here in Chennai. This car has been with the family for many years. It was almost given up. Finally, the car was sent to Kerala for tinkering, and other work. The car is now up an running, just a few days ago. Will try and post some pics shortly. Would love to chat with other 4/44 owners. This car is owned by a relative of mine here. It has been in Chennai for a few decades now. Originally came fro Kerala. Has a Chennai regn.

[karlosdeville]

Originally Posted by SuperSelect

Her first owner was Dr. G. K. Kale, a distant grand-uncle, a medical practicioner from Opera House who bought her new from Dadajee Dhackjee. His son, also a Doctor, inherited her, and my father finally bought her in 1982. Somewhere around 1985 she was sold. I was too young to do anything about it, and that was it.

Incidentally Gogi always told me about his childhood doctor driving an immaculate early Wolseley. I wonder if there is a connection.

[SuperSelect]

@Ka Hah, there were all of Three doctors who owned immaculate Wolseleys at that time !!! Dr. Kale, Dr. Oak, and the last one I forgot. Would gogi remember the said doctor's name ?

@xoticars: Hey which model is a 4/44 ?? Would love to see pictures, I'm a huuuuuuge Wolseley fan ! but somehow the 4/44 has slipped me.

Hey vintageman, the picture you sent is very interesting. Do post follow up pics, it would be great to see this resto through !!

[V-16]

Originally Posted by SuperSelect

@Ka Hah, there were all of Three doctors who owned immaculate Wolseleys at that time !!! Dr. Kale, Dr. Oak, and the last one I forgot. Would gogi remember the said doctor's name ?

@xoticars: Hey which model is a 4/44 ?? Would love to see pictures, I'm a huuuuuuge Wolseley fan ! but somehow the 4/44 has slipped me.

Hey vintageman, the picture you sent is very interesting. Do post follow up pics, it would be great to see this resto through !!

Yes i remember him he was Dr.S.K. Bose. He had a clinic at Hindu Colony Dadar TT, near King George School. Opposite his clinic was his house where his car would be parked. He drove the the car daily for his housed calls and his drives to Lonavala he he had a bunglow. He was particularly fond of me and I remember riding with him many a times to his Lonavala house in his Wolsely.
After his death the car was parked in his house for many years without use. I was a kid then to ask his son Dollo to sell it to me but I remember him saying he wanted to restore it as it was his fathers pet car.
It one day disappeared and I never found it again. His wife (A German national and son I presume left India for good. One of his daughters was teaching in Bombay Scottish School for a long time. She just retired a year or so ago.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Thank you Ram for the Wolseley remembrance. Here is the story of my car.

My father had a Premier Padmini in 1979. It was MMF3433. I used to tinker with it continuously which I guess used to irritate him. So one day he decided to buy me a cheap car. There was this car BML7349, a Wolseley 4/44 owned by an old Parsi gentleman. My father and I went to see it in Bandra. He was staying in a bungalow with an white pomeranian for company and the car was parked in an empty compound opposite his bungalow. It was silver in colour. The tyres were half flat (5.90*15 Ambassador size). The battery was completely flat. The car was covered with 3 layers of blue and grey plastic sheets, all tattered. The fog lights were on the car. They had flat lenses and the reflectors had disintegrated. My father spoke to the gentleman (his house was dingy and stank to high heavens). "What is your expectation ?" "I want 7000". My father offered 4000. He did not say anything, went inside and brought a ----- hold your breath ----- a revolver. "Mr.Dhabhar, you want to buy this ? You want to buy this ? I want to sell it". My father said, "no, I don't want to buy the revolver, I want to buy the car". He did not accept our offer and threw us out, so we came home. I forgot about it. After some days, we got a phone call at home. "Mr.Dhabhar, are you still interested ?" My father said "I am interested but at my price". ""Come and take it" and he slammed the telephone down. So we went (my father, mother and I). He was quite upset with us but we kept our cool. So we paid the money, he told me to come with him to the compound and removed the plastic sheets and opened the door. The interior was stinking. He told me to fit a battery (which we had taken along) and take the car. I connected the battery and after what seemed an eternity, the engine started. Gingerly I took the car out of where it must have been standing for minimum of 5 years. My mother sat next to me while my father was to follow in the Padmini. Just as we were about to leave the compound, he ran behind the car and told me to stop. "Give me the keys" he shouted. I stopped the engine and gave him the keys. He opened the dicky and removed a 2ft*2ft torn dirty blue plastic sheet. "Why should I give you this ? Now go". I could not stop laughing but kept a serious face. We came on the road and then I laughed. We went to the big petrol pump in Bandra and filled air in the tyres. I remember people watching in amazement at the car. We filled petrol @ 4 rupees a litre and my mother bought some agarbattis from a shop down the road and lighted them in the car to get rid of the stench otherwise we could not sit inside. We reached home. The first thing I did after reaching home was removing the fog lights and keeping them safely at home, the same ones I showed to Ram recently. The upholstery was a stately dark maroon and had a hand rest coming out of the rear seat. There was a blower also. All original meters worked perfectly. I learnt a lot tinkering with it and my father hopefully got some peace of mind as I left the Padmini alone. I changed the tyres and fitted "Dunlop Cold Seal C49 white sidewall", 4 tyres and 4 tubes for 1000 rupees. Such makes are unheard of today. Well, as there was quite a bit of corrosion, we decided to get it painted. So it became a shiny black with origial chrome bumpers and wheelcaps. I remember the names of the guys who worked on it. They were Munna and Jagdishbhai. Even during those days, the guy who actually painted the car was known as "painter". Today also he is still called painter. Never knew his real name.

One of my classmates in my engineering college in VJTI ran a private taxi business. He saw the car and offered me 12000. This was a godsend offer for me at that time so I sold it. He took it to Aurangabad. After that, I do not know what happened. My only touch and feel remembrances are the superb fog lamps and the workshop manual. I have fitted brand new reflectors in them with high and low beam arrangement. I will never ever part with them.

Once again, thank you Ram for making me remember. I wish those days come back (I feel that I am lucky because I can still re-live the feeling of an era gone by when I slowly drive my Superselect Fiat on the almost empty streets of Nasik).

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Stanher]

@Behram, a very fascinating and intriguing story to read, sir!

Your description of the car and the parsi gent reminded me of some mystery novel....thrilled on reading it!

Meanwhile, here is a very original but sadly deteriorating Standard Super 10 languishing in a corner of this yard for what looks like several years! I'd posted a couple of photos of htis car earlier but this is the only complete shot I could manage to get while I was there again today ('didnt want to attract too much attention)
It looks relatively cleaner than it did the last time I photo'd it, because of the recent rains. The completeness of the car can also be made out this time- although it is missing some parts like the front windscreen, rear view mirror and fuel tank pipe. However it is bound to turn worse as time goes by!
I'd met the owner the first time- incidentally it has been in his family from new, originally owned by his grandfather! He later called me up one night saying that he wanted to sell the car, failing which he would set about to restoring it.
I then tried to get back to him many times but he'd always been busy in his job.
Then one day when I did get to talk to him on phone, he said he'd changed his mind saying that he doesnt want to do anything with the car! Sad! He just ended saying that if he did change his mind (again!) he would get back to me.
'will try & get back to him and see if I can convince him to either let go of the car or do something bout it (which I personally doubt!)