[Habanero City]

Recently I purchased an ANHC and got it fitted with alloys from Honda as a part of the total deal.
The alloys were balanced with sticker type weights and the car was delivered.
I noticed that the weights that were used in my car were larger and not brightly shining as they were in the car at the show room that was shown to me before I agreed for the alloys.
Anyways I took delivery of the car and noticed that the balance weights had fallen, some while the car was parked the others I don't know where.
I noticed this and took the car to the dealer and he has balanced it again using the similar type of weights (larger and dull in color).
I have following questions and would be grateful to hear the opinions of tyre experts in Team BHP
1) The larger weights that were used in my car had the inscription "Fe".
Does this mean that the weights are made of iron and so they are large in size, while the other same weight which I saw in the show room is made of lead and so it was small.
How is it possible to have 2 sizes for the same weight and material?
2) While balancing one of the wheel, 60 gram of weight was added.
I saw that the technician and the manager were discussing this issue for quite some time.
When I asked them they told me that this wheel needed more than 50 gram weight so we will keep this as a spare wheel.
This lead me to believe that there was something abnormal.
Could anyone throw some light on the above 2 issues

[Nikhilb2008]

Usually lead weights are used. Nowadays the industry is slowly shifting to Zinc.

I think the dealer used old weights which is why it fell off. It is not supposed to fall off so easily!

For your second issue, there is nothing wrong. Many wheels take more than 60 grams weight. It's just a thumb rule that you keep the wheel which uses the most weights as your spare. There is no particular reason for this.

[Habanero City]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Usually lead weights are used. Nowadays the industry is slowly shifting to Zinc.

I think the dealer used old weights which is why it fell off. It is not supposed to fall off so easily!

For your second issue, there is nothing wrong. Many wheels take more than 60 grams weight. It's just a thumb rule that you keep the wheel which uses the most weights as your spare. There is no particular reason for this.

Hi Nikhil,
Thanks for the clarification that was useful.
I have another question regarding the pasting of the balance weights.
Say for example, if 60g of weight is required, the dealer pasted a combination of 10g and 5g weights all in a straight line running to about 100 mm in length.
Is this normal? Why don't they use 1 or 2 large weights instead of several small weights?
Approximately how much does it cost for 5 wheel balancing with lead weights and any suggested place in Chennai for this work?
Thanks in advance.

[vrspower]

For my wheels tyre guy used only 15gms on 225/40 18.60gm are too much.

[Habanero City]

Originally Posted by vrspower

For my wheels tyre guy used only 15gms on 225/40 18.60gm are too much.

Vrspower,
How do you say that 60 g of balancing weight is too much for an alloy wheel.
Any references?
What I understood from the tyre shop is that they have experienced using up to 150 g for passenger car wheels and up to 200 g for SUV wheels while balancing.
Expert Nikhil can show some insight in to this

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by Habanero City

Hi Nikhil,
Thanks for the clarification that was useful.
I have another question regarding the pasting of the balance weights.
Say for example, if 60g of weight is required, the dealer pasted a combination of 10g and 5g weights all in a straight line running to about 100 mm in length.
Is this normal? Why don't they use 1 or 2 large weights instead of several small weights?
Approximately how much does it cost for 5 wheel balancing with lead weights and any suggested place in Chennai for this work?
Thanks in advance.

Weights come only in those sizes. They cant use large weights as such.

Originally Posted by vrspower

For my wheels tyre guy used only 15gms on 225/40 18.60gm are too much.

No such thing. 60gms per wheel is perfectly fine. The weights used differ from wheel to wheel, tyre to tyre.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Usually lead weights are used. Nowadays the industry is slowly shifting to Zinc.

Lead (Pb), Chromium (Cr), Cadmium (Cd) etc are categorized as "Hazardous substance" for use in automobiles. EEC/ECE norms state the use of these elements need to be controlled or eliminated as far as possible. Nikhil, any idea why industry is moving towards Zinc passivation?

Spike

[Ricky_63]

All my sedans have sticker weights, none of them have fallen off inspite of driving on bad roads etc etc.

The trick is to clean the alloy of any dust / grime & put "new" weights, which have good adhesive.

That is all there is to it...no rocket science here.

SUV"S can also use sticker weights on alloys but that is seldom done. The new tyres on my Pajero have the regular alloy specific (rectangular) weights, being an SUV it is ok.

But for my Sedans I'd never use normal weights only sticker weights will do, else it kills the look of the alloys & also damages the lip of the alloys.

Just my humble opinion.



Cheers

[Habanero City]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Weights come only in those sizes. They cant use large weights as such.



No such thing. 60gms per wheel is perfectly fine. The weights used differ from wheel to wheel, tyre to tyre.

Thanks Nikhil for the information that was useful.
Would drop in to meet you when I come to Bangalore.

HC

Originally Posted by Ricky_63

All my sedans have sticker weights, none of them have fallen off inspite of driving on bad roads etc etc.

The trick is to clean the alloy of any dust / grime & put "new" weights, which have good adhesive.

That is all there is to it...no rocket science here.

SUV"S can also use sticker weights on alloys but that is seldom done. The new tyres on my Pajero have the regular alloy specific (rectangular) weights, being an SUV it is ok.

But for my Sedans I'd never use normal weights only sticker weights will do, else it kills the look of the alloys & also damages the lip of the alloys.

Just my humble opinion.


Cheers

Ricky,
Thanks for the information and experience with Sedans and SUV wheel balance weights.

HC

[Rehaan]

Here's another point that hasn't been mentioned, which can help in minimizing the amount of balancing weights used :

When you get new tyres, the sidewall typically has a Yellow dot on it. This indicates the lightest point of the tyre. If this yellow dot is lined up with the valve stem of the alloy (the heaviest point), they help cancel each other out -- which means less balancing of the wheel will be required.


Read more under the "Coloured dots and stripes" heading : Link

cya
R

[raj_srini]

My father and I went to the Honda dealer last night to book a Honda city. suprisingly, most of the new cars came with weights in one or more tyres, much to the dislike of my father.

He remarked "Why should new wheels come with weights?" Had the manufacturing process as rigid as Honda been done right, no weights would need to be attached to the wheels for balancing. Is this not a wheel manufacturing defect, specially when weights are attached to new wheels in a brand new car? Ironically, I noticed that none of the wheels in the Tata or Maruti showrooms had extra weights to the wheels.

Am I missing something? Advice appreciated. I've booked an ANHC nevertheless and expect delivery next week. Got a Rs.90K discount. Cancelled my Etios booking on the spot !

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

When you get new tyres, the sidewall typically has a Yellow dot on it. R

The colour of the dot on new tyres is usually red;the balancing shop uses yellow.

Originally Posted by Habanero City

Say for example, if 60g of weight is required, the dealer pasted a combination of 10g and 5g weights all in a straight line running to about 100 mm in length.
Is this normal? Approximately how much does it cost for 5 wheel balancing with lead weights and any suggested place in Chennai for this work?
Thanks in advance.

1.using 10g and 5g weights in line is absolutely fine.
2.Only about 10 days back I saw in Velachery that the balancing charges(including weights) is Rs.150 per alloy wheel(some standard charge fixed by the tyre dealers' association) ; the same charge is 75 per wheel in case of steel wheels ; Rather funny rule

In my city I pay Rs.25 per wheel as balancing charges and Rs.1 per gm for sticker weights ; paid Rs.330 in all for balancing all 5 alloys of my Corolla in Nov2010.

The general rule is to keep the wheels with least weights in the front(possibly' coz the tyres are least "imbalanced")

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by vigsom

The colour of the dot on new tyres is usually red;the balancing shop uses yellow.

Red & Yellow dots have different meanings.

From the page i linked to earlier :

...As a result, all tyres have a point on the tread which is lighter than the rest of the tyre - a thin spot if you like. It's fractional - you'd never notice it unless you used tyre manufacturing equipment to find it, but its there. When the tyre is manufactured, this point is found and a coloured dot is put on the sidewall of the tyre corresponding to the light spot. Typically this is a yellow dot (although some manufacturers use different colours just to confuse us) and is known as the weight mark.

.....

Every tyre has a high and a low spot, the difference of which is called radial runout. Using sophisticated computer analysis, tyre manufacturers spin each tyre and look for the 'wobble' in the tyre at certain RPMs. It's all about harmonic frequency (you know - the frequency at which something vibrates, like the Tacoma Narrows bridge collapse). Where the first harmonic curve from the tyre wobble hits its high point, that's where the tyre's high spot is. Manufacturers typically mark this point with a red dot on the tyre sidewall, although again, some tyres have no marks, and others use different colours. This is called the uniformity mark.

cya
R

[vigsom]

Thanks R ; I jumped the gun based on my observations.

Why is it that one does not see the yellow mark then on brand new tyres?

[Jidousha]

Originally Posted by raj_srini

He remarked "Why should new wheels come with weights?" Had the manufacturing process as rigid as Honda been done right, no weights would need to be attached to the wheels for balancing. Is this not a wheel manufacturing defect, specially when weights are attached to new wheels in a brand new car? Ironically, I noticed that none of the wheels in the Tata or Maruti showrooms had extra weights to the wheels.

Am I missing something? Advice appreciated. I've booked an ANHC nevertheless and expect delivery next week. Got a Rs.90K discount. Cancelled my Etios booking on the spot !

Alloy wheels are die cast while the steel rims are rolled and pressed.
Regardless of any amount of precision in the manufacturing process, a circular rim would always end up with some unbalance. However with modern manufacturing process, the unbalance is reduced to the minimum.
Now added to this is the tire and its manufacturing process and the resultant unbalance.
With the tire and the rim (alloy/steel), the whole wheel including the tube, mouth etc., will constitute the overall unbalance for each wheel.
Any unbalance in the wheels will be significant during high speed (excess of 60 kmph or more towards 90 to 100 kmph).
If you have seen any new vehicles in the show room without balance weights, it does not mean that the wheel is perfectly balanced.
Usually the dealers try to avoid this work as it involves labor and material and consequently cost.
Only when a knowledgeable customer points out this, they reluctantly do this and that too only for the front 2 wheels.
If you have read enough articles from T-BHP, then you will be a smart customer and will not only look for the unbalance wheel but go through every small item listed in the PDI.
Hope you will do this while buying the ANHC