[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by drpullockaran

Its precisely because it is rotated 180 degrees that the problem arises. As you correctly pointed out the continuous rib does go to the outside which is good but the block tread pattern too goes 180 degrees which will result in extreme hydroplaning. The nitty gritty is in the contact patch and how the individual tread-blocks and water channels are arranged in relation to the continuous rib on the outside of the rolling tire. Please please have a look at the tire in the flesh/rubber. You will get the point I am alluding too.

Yup I got what you were saying earlier. These are not just asymmetric but also uni directional. Pretty strange.

[pjbiju]

This definitely looks like an issue. I hope someone can shed more light on how this would affect handling, water channeling and wear and tear of the tyres. I was thinking of switching to these tyres soon. But now I am worried. I hope the images below explains well what drpullockaran has been trying to say. But I am surprised how this could have passed the eyes of the MRF design team. Or is it that they have different tyres for the left and the right sides? But, this is not something that they have mentioned on their site.

[drpullockaran]

Originally Posted by pjbiju

shed more light on how this would affect handling, water channeling and wear and tear of the tyres.Or is it that they have different tyres for the left and the right sides?
Attachment 848744

The continuous rib has to be on the outside. The rib is for cornering grip and straight line ability. In this case its for cornering. IF it was for straight line ability it would be in the center. The water channeling should be such that the water has a pathway to be pushed forward and to the inside of the car( towards the engine/gearbox) and away from the continuous rib. Any other way will be suicidal. The first and second diagram on the right side and the last two diagrams is the correct water pathway if the arrow direction is the path of the car and we are seeing the tread from beneath on the monitor screen.

As far as wear and tear goes if the blocks are to the outside you will have a bald area in no time especially if you corner without slowing down like one would in a Fiesta or GTX.

[MCR]

I have got ZLO's for my Punto. The mechanic ensured that MRF's recommendations was followed. The tyre has a sticker as well as rubber marking showing "outside" marking.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post2592470

[drpullockaran]

Originally Posted by MCR

I have got ZLO's for my Punto. The mechanic ensured that MRF's recommendations was followed. The tyre has a sticker as well as rubber marking showing "outside" marking.

Please stand in front of the car bend down and check whether the tread pattern is the same for the left and the right. If not pray real hard in the wet.
If you can please post a picture from the lower front of the car on a cloudy day with flash such that the tire tread can be seen clearly.

[Prass]

Originally Posted by drpullockaran

Please stand in front of the car bend down and check whether the tread pattern is the same for the left and the right. If not pray real hard in the wet.
If you can please post a picture from the lower front of the car on a cloudy day with flash such that the tire tread can be seen clearly.

+1 and I am sure you meant thread pattern is a mirror image of the other.

Originally Posted by MCR

I have got ZLO's for my Punto. The mechanic ensured that MRF's recommendations was followed. The tyre has a sticker as well as rubber marking showing "outside" marking.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post2592470

In BS Potenza GIII, looking from the front of the car, the channel pattern resembles a straight V. When the car rolls, the converging ends ( of V) meet the road first and pushes water out through the channels to either sides as the tyre rolls.
Similarly, check the pattern from front of the car. For each tyre the channel pattern should be slanting from bottom to top towards outer edge (engine bay side in this case). And also, the LHS and RHS tyres should look like mirror images.

[Nikhilb2008]

In my opinion, this is not a big deal. As long as you fit the tyres with the continuous rib on the outside, the water is being channeled away from the tyre. Yes, it isnt symmetric but I dont think it should be a problem.

I have emailed MRF and am awaiting a reply.

Drpullockran --- Honestly, your sense of observation is FANTASTIC! Hats off! Your detailed explanation coupled with pjbiju's picture made things easier for me to understand! However, I think statements like "If not pray real hard in the wet." is a little over the top.

[absynthguzzler]

I reckon they have got it wrong indeed .

If the principle of water being channeled out is taken as the sole purpose.Then in one of the tires( as depicted in the right side 1st pic post#47), it wouldn't because the channels are already under stress whilst being in contact with the road. Since the escape path is blocked , the water would be pushed inward towards the center groove.

If the arrow marks were reversed in the right side picture, that would depict the actual flow in running.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

In my opinion, this is not a big deal. As long as you fit the tyres with the continuous rib on the outside, the water is being channeled away from the tyre. Yes, it isnt symmetric but I dont think it should be a problem.

Actually it is a problem, Nikhil. If you keep the rib on the outside on both sides then one side tyre will channel water away from the centre but the other side will bring water into the tyre. One side will aquaplane way easier than the other.

[MCR]

Actually, if you observe the picture below, both the tyres throw the water towards the inside of the car. If both of them are clearing the water, how can they aquaplane?
Both tyres are splashing the water in a different direction. Since both are different entities on the road.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by MCR

Actually, if you observe the picture below, both the tyres throw the water towards the inside of the car. If both of them are clearing the water, how can they aquaplane?
Both tyres are splashing the water in a different direction. Since both are different entities on the road.

The left side in the pic is correct. The point of contact with the road is important. On the left the inner tread pattern touches the water first and pushes it outwards whereas on the right the outer tread will come in contact first and thereby push water towards the centre of the tyre.

[pjbiju]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The left side in the pic is correct. The point of contact with the road is important. On the left the inner tread pattern touches the water first and pushes it outwards whereas on the right the outer tread will come in contact first and thereby push water towards the centre of the tyre.

I agree. So this is how the tyres should be mounted then?


Is this an issue in other assymetric tyres? I guess it would be so.

Also if there was no continuous rib, then this would have been less of an issue or not an issue at all? What other effect (other than water channeling) will the patterns themselves have since in assymetric tyres (without specific left and right side tyres), the flow of direction of the patterns would be different? Would it have an impact on grip and wear and tear?

[drpullockaran]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Drpullockran --- Honestly, your sense of observation is FANTASTIC! Hats off! Your detailed explanation coupled with pjbiju's picture made things easier for me to understand!

(Observation). Being the Principal of a college thats what I am paid to do. More than administration which is a cake walk; it is observing the staff and students without being overbearing which is the tightrope walk all Principals are forced to do every minute they are in college. Assuaging the inflated ego's of the senior staff is the biggest trial and triumph.

As far as aquaplaning is concerned it will be serious once the tread starts wearing down to half its level. Presently the tread is very very deep in this particular tire so should not be problem till its half way through. The problem is that while cornering you will get over confident when turning to one side only to be caught out when taking the very same corner at same speed while returning back. Most accidents in the wet are caused by over confidence on the capabilities of the rubber we adorn our cars with.

Originally Posted by pjbiju

I agree. So this is how the tyres should be mounted then?
Attachment 849534

Is this an issue in other assymetric tyres? I guess it would be so.

Also if there was no continuous rib, then this would have been less of an issue or not an issue at all? What other effect (other than water channeling) will the patterns themselves have since in assymetric tyres (without specific left and right side tyres), the flow of direction of the patterns would be different? Would it have an impact on grip and wear and tear?

This is the only way that the tires should be mounted. The beginning of the water channel which is in the center of the tire should be the part of the tire which contacts the road first.
Most asymmetric tires will have a tread pattern that will not hamper water channeling.
In the absence of a continuous rib the detrimental effects will be diminished to some extent but not completely solved..
I sincerely hope MRF gets out a right and left side tire as this will probably be the best tire manufactured in India and dare I say the world for the price its going to sell at. If not dry weather handling it will be king in the wet.Reminds me of Schumy.

Originally Posted by Prass

+1 and I am sure you meant thread pattern is a mirror image of the other.

I did mean tread and not thread. A tire does not have thread but has tread which is what we are referring to here. It has threads of steel and polyester inside the tire which is not visible. What you see is the tread.
Tread - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by drpullockaran

The first and second diagram on the right side and the last two diagrams is the correct water pathway if the arrow direction is the path of the car and we are seeing the tread from beneath on the monitor screen.

Please forgive me I made a massive blunder in this recommendation. They are not correct recommendations. pjbiju's post number 57 is the only correct way both the tires should be mounted. In post 47 again by biju the only correct diagram is the the first one left side.

[Prass]

Originally Posted by drpullockaran

I did mean tread and not thread. A tire does not have thread but has tread which is what we are referring to here. It has threads of steel and polyester inside the tire which is not visible. What you see is the tread.
Tread - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry, it was a typo. I think I know what is tread, thread, threads etc..Thanks anyway

[Schoudhury]

I just got these tyres for my Ritz from Madhu's today in the evening and i must say the ride quality is superb.

To be very frank i was kinda concerned how the ride quality will be on 195/60/15 .

But now after driving them for about 40 kms already , i must say that the ride quality is better than the stock JK .
I even tested the same on real bad roads, rather say a route where there is no road and i found them to be good.

Now im not sure if these are because of these ZLO tyres or not .

Anyways, after reading the discussion thats going on over here, i took a couple of snaps of the tyre to give an idea how to grip looks once the tyres are fitted.

Let me know if pictures from any particular angle is needed .

Hope it helps