[zalaps]

Originally Posted by swami69

Mine is 2015 Facelift model, could the cable be different ?

Swami

It should be different. But then I'm no expert in parts.
I'll try again with dealership.

[ralto]

Originally Posted by swami69

Mine is 2015 Facelift model, could the cable be different ?

Originally Posted by zalaps

It should be different. But then I'm no expert in parts.

Pre-2015 and facelifted one's are different. Moreover, the pre-2015 are not that great. I drove a lot in the hills and the cable would simply snap out every time I parked on an incline (even if slotted in gear). Facelifted one had an improved system, which I assume should Scorpio based, hence improved.

[(Alok)]

Originally Posted by TaurusAl

I am repeating the problems again for better understanding.

1) Centre console does not remain 'slightly' hot, the gear stick is hot and untouchable after 15-20 mins of driving at speeds around 80-100

2) My AC does NOT have a problem. It becomes ineffective due to heat from gear stick.

3) I am asking what could be the issue and what can I look to address, which you are asking me to resolve and then changing the oils.

My Thar is 2013 make.

I am quoting a 3 years old post this time but since you are active, so doing this.

Finally what was the solution for ‘hot gear stick’?

I am also facing this problem in my Di 4x4 NGT 520 gear box since long back. If there is only 2 persons with nominal luggage gearbox (shifter stick) stays normal but if there are 5-7 person in the vehicle shifter stick becomes extremely hot. Otherwise there is no problem in gear shifting, it works normal.

Is it ‘maximile synchro UV2’ gear oil, which create this problem? In mahindra owners manual(s) this oil in not at all recommended anywhere except for Thar m2Dicr transfer case.
'Maximile syntech f2' gear oil is not easily available in market.

Thanks

[TaurusAl]

Originally Posted by (Alok)

I am quoting a 3 years old post this time but since you are active, so doing this.

Finally what was the solution for ‘hot gear stick’?

I am also facing this problem in my Di 4x4 NGT 520 gear box since long back. If there is only 2 persons with nominal luggage gearbox (shifter stick) stays normal but if there are 5-7 person in the vehicle shifter stick becomes extremely hot. Otherwise there is no problem in gear shifting, it works normal.

Is it ‘maximile synchro UV2’ gear oil, which create this problem? In mahindra owners manual(s) this oil in not at all recommended anywhere except for Thar m2Dicr transfer case.
'Maximile syntech f2' gear oil is not easily available in market.

Thanks

Here's what I managed


1) Check your coolant levels. Get your radiator serviced. My radiator had lot of rust from inside when drained. After that the gear stick started to reamain atleast 10 degrees cooler.

2) Check the water pump if working properly. Mine was malfunctioning and had to replace it.

Apart from this as a first-aid till you find a problem -

3) Take a break if the stick becomes really hot.

4) Drive slow, slow down to a speed where the stick is reasonably hot.


I did all of the above and finally was happy with the end result. (I did not change or tampered with oils)

Hope your find a solution soonest. Happy Driving.

[Maverick1977]

Hi everyone, a friend is selling his recently done up 2012 Thar CRDe. The car has done about 90K km and he's spent a bucket load of money to do it up including putting off road tyres, rims, snorkel, full under body protection etc. He is selling it as he's a family man now and needs a bigger car. He's offered it to me at 5.5L which I feel is on a higher side. His take is that he's spent 2L+ on the car and completely done it up. There is absolutely no work required.

I am worried on 2 counts - the age of the car & the problems associated with it, especially rust and what happens if the NGT rule gets applied to all major cities.

Also, any tips on what things to check especially in the engine bay will be highly appreciated.

[Hill_Boy]

Seeking Advice on Buying a 1st Gen Thar

I'm here looking for advice on my upcoming car purchase, particularly considering a 1st Gen Thar.

Here's a bit of background:
Having admired the Ghurka for a while, it was a massive disappointment earlier this year when I learned it was out of production. The news left me reminiscent of teenage heartbreak. With limited information on the release of a new Ghurka, I'm contemplating a used 4×4 as a temporary solution. Even if a Ghurka was released now, I'd wait at least a year for Force Motors to fix the nighles before I put down the booking amount.

Other options on my radar include a N-line i20, Tiago JTP, Polo GT, and even a near-mint 2021 Duster (Petrol) or a 4×4 Duster with around 60K on the odometer.

Thars that have caught my eyes:

Cars 24 - 2019 - HT|| 36,*** Kms ||Black|| Single owner|| 8.15 (+ insurance, RTO, etc)
Poorly done interior, and had a AK-47 painted on the top - A bad sign for a used car according to a friend who came along. But, comes with Cars24 assistance.

Local dealer 1 - 2017- HT|| 17,000 Kms|| Green||2 owners(Gursehaj Motors)|| 7.25(+ insurance, RTO, etc)
Limited information; seen only in pictures.

Local dealer 2 - 2018- ST|| 26,000 Kms|| Red|| 2 owners(not sure)|| 8 Lakhs(+ insurance, RTO, etc)
Limited information; seen only in pictures.

Questions:
Does it make sense to consider a 1st Gen Thar?
How can I ensure I buy a well-cared-for vehicle and avoid scams?
Considering the 10-year rule for diesels in Delhi, what are my options?
I've noticed different bumpers(metal off-roading types)on two of the Thars. Do these attract fines in NCR?
What is the maintenance like on these machines? I'm pretty sure they are reliable but I want to double check - I really do not want to be stranded anywhere.

A bit about myself:
-Grew up with a love for the Gypsy; owned a 1992 MG410 for over 10 years.
-Keen on serious off-roading, though limited experience.
-New to Delhi, seeking advice on FNGs, trusted used car dealers and hopefully some leads to well loved Thars looking for a new home.
-Current plan is to use this vehicle as my daily driver(~ 30Kms daily and 20-300 kms weekend trips around Delhi).

Your insights and recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Hill_boy

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by Hill_Boy

Seeking Advice on Buying a 1st Gen Thar

I'm here looking for advice on my upcoming car purchase, particularly considering a 1st Gen Thar.

........................
A bit about myself:
-Grew up with a love for the Gypsy; owned a 1992 MG410 for over 10 years.
-Keen on serious off-roading, though limited experience.
-New to Delhi, seeking advice on FNGs, trusted used car dealers and hopefully some leads to well loved Thars looking for a new home.
-Current plan is to use this vehicle as my daily driver(~ 30Kms daily and 20-300 kms weekend trips around Delhi).

Your insights and recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Hill_boy

Keep one thing in mind. In Delhi the diesel car has to be phased out in 10 years, so consider this while getting a diesel thar.

As you like Gypsy, why dont you consider the Jimny? The price has come down so it is a good buy, especially in Delhi as you can keep it for the next 15 years.

[Blooming Flower]

Why I Chose FWH (Free Wheeling Hub) for My Thar CRDe.

Background:

I am not generally eager to modify stock setup in a vehicle unless a specific use case is defined for it. Recently, I have decided to move to FWH for my Thar CRDe.

First of all, I am not a hard-core off-roader; but I am an avid road-tripper, and most of my travel plans include at least one destination-OTR. Despite being a crude and not-so-road-worthy vehicle in today’s date my family and I are already acclimatized with Thar CRDe and its shortcomings for long-haul road trips with it. Thar CRDe, since its launch almost 15 yrs ago, had undergone many minor and major changes. I know a few early owners who got their Thar with auto-locking hubs (which costs a bomb for a pair), and also a few with fixed flange. There was no clarity as to why Mahindra switched to a fixed flange and again to an auto-locking hub a few months later. Maybe, cost-cutting and/or reliability and ease of use based on internal management decisions. However, mine came with an auto-locking hub from the factory, and till date, no major problems cropped up except a few minor and common niggles. Yes, they didn’t fail and are working properly as they should. Since the beginning, I could never perceive the click noise (as stated in the manual) even with the window glass down while the auto-locker gets engaged or disengaged. But it never caused a 4WD failure in my case while several failures were reported across the OTR community. In few instances, even after reversing for 100 mtrs, (yes, you read it correctly, it’s hundred, not ten) the hub locks did not disengage properly and used to make kat-kat noise while taking sharp turns. But this is not at all the reason why I chose FWH.

Use case:

It’s not quite surprising that to provide easy accessibility to remote locations the road infrastructure in India is improving rapidly. This makes the daily life of the local people easier; at the same time, it poses some tacit difficulties to part-time 4WD vehicles.

In the past few trips, while attempting to reach my destination through some no-so-known, uncharted roads/ tracks I found, of late, the initial few kilometres are converted to either concrete or tarmac by the local panchayat or PWD. Undeniably it’s a boon. The tracks don’t get unmotorable during the rainy season. But concrete or tarmac doesn’t essentially minimize the inclination angle (gradient) of these tracks. Because of very narrow and twisty nature of the roads, a driver has to stop to give space for an oncoming vehicle to pass or must reverse and start from a stand-still to negotiate a sharp 3-point turn. However, a certain drawback exists in CRDe powertrain compared to its DI sibling. If you look at the torque curve throughout the RPM range the CRDe engine suffers from inadequate low-end torque. Then comes the gearings in the picture to worsen the situation. For Thar CRDe, I always felt the gap between the 1st and 2nd gear is very large. While climbing up with momentum through a moderately inclined road the RPM drops from the turbo band in 2nd gear, and sometimes 1st gear also fails to pull up an inch forward if the inclination is steeper. This warrants the use of the reduction gears in part-time 4WD vehicles. A torqy diesel powerhouse as in Thar CRDe handles those gradients like child’s play in 4L 2nd. 4L 1st is hardly required. And here comes the real problem.

As the concrete/tarmac road surface provides full traction to all the wheels there is barely any chance for required wheel slippage while driving in 4WD modes. The frequent twists and turns make the situation unfavourable. The steering already feels heavy with 4WD engaged, and one can feel it gets heavier with more turns. No doubt, it can be understood how much stress the entire drivetrain is subject to almost causing an onset of transmission windup. This particular situation demands the 2WD-L mode to utilize the torque to climb up without causing excess pressure on the transmission. An FWH for part-time 4WD vehicles with a full floating axle can make this a reality.

A question may arise why no manufacturer give this 2WD-L as an option? The single-word answer is FOS (factor of safety). While the transmission is in low-range 2WD mode, the rear axle only has to handle the entire torque the transmission system delivers. This can cause untoward axle-twist and other failures. Reckoning this safety aspect why I am inclined to have this mode? More explanation to this is in the latter part of this post.

To my knowledge, the costly 4x4 vehicles, even full-time 4WDs viz. old gen T-Fort with 3 differentials also provide 4L only with centre differential in locked condition. This too apparently defeats the purpose and cannot eliminate the chances of transmission wind-up while plying on steep tarmac/concrete road. As on date, I have come across only one vehicle (Land Rover) owned by bhpian Blackpearl in UK providing 4L with centre diff. open condition. (Link) (The heartbeat of BlackPearl | Land Rover Defender 90 Review) This essentially offers the driving mode that is desirable from 2WD-L in part-time 4WD vehicles.

Why 2WD-L can be used without compromising safety:

Consider a situation where a 4WD vehicle carrying not much load at the rear has come to a standstill while negotiating a steep, uphill road in 2WD mode. To move forward, the driver has to either rev up very high burning the clutch in order to supply enough torque to the rear wheels or he/she has to engage 4L for ease. Now, to eliminate the chances of transmission windup if he manages to drive in 2WD-L mode what will be the situation?

If you look at the rear axle, the net twisting force exerted on it in either case (2H and 2L) will be exactly equal for moving the vehicle up. Rather, in 2H there remains a high probability of frying up the clutch.

Also, while in 4L both the front and rear propeller shafts are forced to rotate at the same speed. But in 4L with FWH unlocked condition (effectively 2WD-L), the front axle has technically no load (except the weight of the moving propeller and drive shaft, which is negligible compared to the load on the wheel). I agree, only the rear axle will be the driving axle bearing all the twist force to roll the vehicle uphill. But an axle is designed to take much more load than what is exerted by 2 pax. and a few baggage only on-board. Imagine goods carriers like Bolero pick-ups doing their regular duty on these terrains, which often carry 2-3 times the rated load without severe damage to the axle. So, with minimal loading in a passenger 4WD vehicle, the net twist force exerted on the rear axle in 2L mode is much less than its designed failure mode. With hindsight, the stress given on the entire transmission system (including front and rear axles) if driven continuously in 4L mode on such roads will be more detrimental.

To summarize the use case, the following points helped me decide to opt for FWH.

1. Reliability: My preference of reliability factor for wheel hub in descending order is--
Fixed flange > Freewheeling hub > Auto-locking hub > Electronic hub lock (e.g. FAD in new Thar) > Vacuum actuated hub (e.g. Jimny).

The last two incorporate lots of electronics in feedback loops rendering them intrinsically complicated and not so robust and reliable. On the contrary, the first 3 are completely mechanical. Auto-lockers work similarly to paul and ratchet mechanism. But the most reliable one, the fixed flange, and even the auto-locker can’t fulfil the intended purpose.

2. Cost: Needless to say, a FWH pair costs 1/10th of the failure-prone auto-locker.

3. Installation and Maintenance: Unlike replacing fixed flange with the FWH, for Thar CRDe with auto-lockers, these are very easy to install. No disassembly of the hub-lock is required. These are just bolt-on with a thin layer of RTV gasket maker and a few drops of removable blue loctite. Pretty much plug-and-play! Maintenance is also easier.

4. Safety: If kept in unlocked mode, in case an uninitiated driver mistakenly engages 4WD while driving in the not-so-desirable condition the drivetrain won’t be subjected to any untoward stress.

5. Ease of use: No need to reverse a few meters to disengage the auto locking hubs (which is often of no use to cater to the purpose). Many times there exists no scope to reverse too.

6.2WD-L: The vehicle can be used with 2WD-L mode in specific and demanding situations.

Cons:
Only one for my use case. I have to come out to lock the hubs manually to utilize 4WD modes, which can be messy if the surface is muddy and slippery.

If you have also faced similar situations during off-roading, please pitch in how you managed to overcome the problem.

[Dr_MNC_SK]

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

Why I Chose FWH (Free Wheeling Hub) for My Thar CRDe.

Background:


If you have also faced similar situations during off-roading, please pitch in how you managed to overcome the problem.

Hi there.

Beautifully explained for novice readers what you are doing and why you are doing.
FWH are reliable no doubt but looking at your use scenario I feel its not worth it. The auto lockers in the Thar Crde is very convenient and reliable. In your described use case scenario where you need Low range torque for a moment you can keep on doing the usual stuff of 4 L and then go back to 2 H when the need ceases. That much of 4 L is not going to wind your transmission even on fully paved roads. I can understand where you mean to utilise 2L. ( I had a Thar Crde for 90K Kms and 75K of those I have been driving on hills.)
Also the Crde if not loaded grossly at the rear has a very light rear and can easily overcome building transmission windup at the rear by slippage of wheel.
If on fully paved roads even at a very steep incline you are unable to stop and go at 1 st in 2H without revving very high please check your clutch once. Crde is notorious for burning clutch with very less usual symptoms that other cars throw. I am born and drive in hills and have no clutch riding at all still managed to burn Crdes clutch at 35K kms without any tell tale symptoms. It used to work fine in all situation except very steep inclines like you say. Changed the clutch plate and pressure plate to a Bolero Crde the model that was few and far between and then everything got ok and clutch became much lighter than how it ever was.
You will miss the convenience the auto lockers give. And moving around with a locked hub for some time during those drives shouldnt be much of a wear and tear problem if your hubs are well greased and your front yoke propellor shafts are in good shape. Retain your auto hub lockers as long as they work and they should last a long time if maintained properly. Else some day on a muddy stretch you will curse the FWH trying to figure out which way it will lock in the rain and darkness and mud all around.

[Blooming Flower]

Originally Posted by Dr_MNC_SK

Hi there.

Beautifully explained for novice readers what you are doing and why you are doing.

You will miss the convenience the auto lockers give. And moving around with a locked hub for some time during those drives shouldnt be much of a wear and tear problem if your hubs are well greased and your front yoke propellor shafts are in good shape. Retain your auto hub lockers as long as they work

Hi Doc. How are you? Nice to interact after a long time.

Yes, the convenience of auto-locker I will miss shall be offset by the reliability quotient. I mentioned that in the 'cons' section.

You know, I too have driven to most of the known places in the Himalayas of North Bengal and Sikkim when I was based at Kolkata, and stock 4L mode worked flawless when in need. However, of late, I very often felt the pressure in the transmission system through the steering feel in my recent trips to HP and UK (not to be confused with the Britain land ) while driving on such cemented, steep and twisty roads. As of now, there have been no issues in the transmission. But to be on the safer side I made the provision for this mode.

The clutch assembly is absolutely ok (without any slippage) as well as the fingers of the pressure plate. They are infamous for poor heat-treatment during production leading to hardening of the clutch pedal in CRDe. My pedal force is also perfect within the specified range. I measured it with my push-pull meter recently. It's 14.6 Kg, well within the limit for a diesel car of this genre.

Also, I accept as you touched upon, there exists certain risk of using 2L without fair knowledge of the vehicle's limitation. Even I have put a statutory warning with layman's term explanation in Jimny thread too when people took reference to this post to execute 2L mode in their Jimny. Link (Maruti Jimny Review)

One thing I must mention, the hubs are not to be greased. In the long run, greasing is counter-productive as the entrapment of dust and grimes will be expedited. Rather, they are supposed to be lubricated with high viscosity oil (e.g. transmission/ differential oil). I know a few owners who took care of their ALH pair with regular greasing only to see premature failure of these. OTOH, the propeller shaft U-joints have nipples to be greased periodically with grease gun.

Ah, yes, I am retaining the perfectly working ALH with me only for future use. I don't generally sell things.

[Red Liner]

Has anyone installed 245/75/16 tyres on the OE alloys of the Thar? Does it touch or rub on full lock or articulation? Is the 245/70/16 a safer bet? I prefer not doing any kind of modification to fit an upsize.