Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari See, its not a question of my or your liking or disliking it. As GTO said earlier, this forum discusses everything objectively & even Honda howsoever we worship them, can not get away with it.
Now, thats a direct personal attack. Anyway am ignoring it though feel that statement should have looked more matured with the word " People/ Market" rather than the word " you".
Dude, check again. I was just replying objectively to a post he himself has posted with a "smiley". (copied below)
Friend, Its I who have initiated raising the plastic issues in my car in my ownership thread as well as other Linea thread. Unlike some others on the forum, I can look at the car (& the brand thereof) I own objectively, I can hear about the issues or even raise the issues. I find no problem if you go on counting negatives of Linea. Doesn't matter to me. Unlike others who have changed tunes regarding Honda from the time of ANHC-launch to Jazz-launch (details in my post #335 in this very thread). I've even read many of your posts & the thread you started on ratings ANHC vs Linea. In fact, that thread & the way things were being projected there for Honda helped me to take a decision to buy Linea. I always believe that readers here are mature enough what to take & what not to take from each post.
Should thank god that I did not buy ANHC 3-4 months back. Would not have any problem in objectively discussing ANHC issues (there are threads here on the ANHC & service issues)
Oh. From discussing Cars we've now come to discuss How Govt levies higher tax, how roads are bad, how infrastructures in some regions bad & should be discussing those issues rather than how Honda priced Jazz? I thought Govt excise & levies are applicable across the board uniformly & there is no impartiality to Honda or any other mfr.
Check again the posts. A member cited US example & mentioned Honda should have priced Jazz with Corolla & Civic at 12 Lacs. I just replied to put things in perspective. Until then did not even care to see what Honda does in US,
Ohh. All car manufacturers in India seem so depressing . Only Honda shows some light at the end of the tunnel.
No. So lets blame the Govt for the prices Honda charges in India. Thought Govt taxes were uniform across. Lets ask Govt to give higher Excise duty benefits (than what it currently gives) specifically to Honda to facilitate Honda using 1.2 engine in Jazz to price it slightly lower.
Oops again from discussing Cars, we've now ended up disccusing India-China economy. |
Firstly I didnt meant to attack you personally and my apologies if it seemed that way, however I do see this thread is getting you pretty worked up and all I meant was relax as no one is forcing you to buy this car or any other. If you dont like it, simply state it, whats the point in qouting various threads and highlighting your views again and again to raise the same arguments. I am sure those who have objectively gone through this thread know what your views are about this car.
I really appreciate that you have created a thread for Linea troubles. Having said that, you'd agree that Honda City has proven to be more reliable and at least I am yet to hear plastic coming off of Honda City or rattling problems. In my comparison of ANHC vs Linea I had mentioned that Linea plastic quality looked suspect, I remember that statement made a furor. But now I think its quite evident that pricing the car to 6-7 lakhs Fiat has not given us the Palio like build quality and compromised on the quality of material used. It is my opinion that one should rather charge 50k upfront and good better quality, than compromise on quality for the sake of keeping low initial cost. I am certain that the international Linea's have higher quality materials used and better build quality vis a vis India.
Why should I thank god you didnt buy ANHC. I believe your assumption behind that statement is that only you can be objective about something. Do you mean to imply all other Bhpians who own ANHC are not as objective as you???
Coming to govt levies, yes they are for all manufacturers across the board. But tell me whats the price difference between Corolla and Civic considering they both have a 1.8 ltr engine, are relatively in the same market segment world wide. Not much is it?
Now all manfacturers are forced to plonk 1.2 ltr engines in our cars because of the stupid leveis system thereby making all super hatches of the day underpowered. If the hatch is small in terms of space like Ritz than they are driveable and punchy. But if its a i20 or a Jazz the car becomes sluggish or less responsive.
In case of Getz CRDI Hyundai took the engine from Verna diesel and reduced the cubic capacity (like Honda did with Jazz). The cost of the engine was the same for Verna and Getz, therefore Getz was a very costly diesel in its prime. Its only now when its being phased out do we see a price cut. In case of i20 Hyundai plonked the i10 engine in the car, thereby reducing the price of the car and pricing it competitively. However if you go purely by the motor, a Swift Zxi still scores over i20.
It is agreed here that there is not much cost saving for Honda between 1.2ltr i-vtech and the 1.5 ltr i-vtech, its merely the excise benefit that is forcing Honda to give us a 1.2 ltr engine here. The car is more expensive than the City in international markets and that is for a reason. If you look at both cars you'd see apart from the boot and engine (which are of the same cost to Honda) every other aspect Jazz is better than the ANHC. If you look at the quality of interiors this thing comes as close to Civic as any car can come in the south of 10 lakhs. The build quality is solid. The wiper blades are like Civic unlike the cheaper quality ones in City. The side panels are much better than the City and the console of Jazz is in a different league. Add to that the magic seats and the cost associated with that. If not for India's sedan mentality and associated aspirational values of status, for a practical western mind Jazz scores over City in all respects barring engine, which is being forced upon us by the govt regulations.
So keeping the above factors in mind, if nothing else manufacturing Jazz costs same if not more than than ANHC to Honda. Add to that the 12% excise benefit that Honda gets by plonking 1.2 ltr motor. The price difference between Honda City S (comparable model) and Jazz basic is the following:
Jazz: 6.98 ex showroom Delhi
ANHC: 8.32 ex showroom Delhi
Price Difference: 1.34 lakhs
Excise Benefit: 99840 Rs
Actual price difference: 34000 Rs. So for Honda the price difference between the cars is mere 30,000 Rs and which is in line with their international prices. If not for the levies and duties you could very well have a full blown 1.5 ltr in jazz by a mere 30k difference, but dont blame Honda for not giving you one, blame the duty structure.
Lastly I believe all the heat Jazz is getting is due to it being costly for a hatch. Thats merely our mentality. I am sure WV wont price Golf in 5-6 lakh hatch bracket. If you check in UK the price difference between i20 1.2 ltr and Honda Jazz is approx 1600-2000 pounds and even more in some variants, which is quite inline withe their price difference here.