[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by Mpower

To? I was'nt really asking any question.

But you mentioned there is a problem - Perception in India. That is not a problem here in this case. Here a sedan (ANHC) is very different than a Hatch (Jazz) as GTO has rightly mentioned - The engine, Ride Quality, Handling, Max Speed, Boot, 3 Box etc. Jazz Engine whatever you say technologically costlier but from user perspective as GTO mention is no better than Ritz Engine. Ride Quality & Handling is questionable. So? So, we justify Jazz as City car. The problem is Perception in India FOR HONDA.

Originally Posted by Mpower

Lastly let's not forget that the City has cheap quality plastic on the dash.

At the end of the day both cars are overpriced IMO and strictly for Honda fans which there are plenty.

Absolutely right - both points. Again here also comes classic case of perception in India FOR Honda. When it was said ANHC has poor plastics, those guys said its the performance that matters what the hell with Plastics, Interior, CD Player, Climate Control, Alloys etc. When interiors are good in Jazz, they say oh yeah, excellent quality, Honda should charge premium & are completely silent about Engine (as compared to Ritz like GTO said), Ride Quality, Handling, Max speed etc. Though some said GTO review was a bit sweetner, he has covered ALL these finer points without missing any imp point. One has to read it critically only then will notice.

Originally Posted by Mpower

Fiesta may be cheaper to run and Swift is even cheaper to run, the point is that people are happy to drive around with 68 bhp. The NHC was petrol and it was no scorcher, had patheric ride AND handling and pathetic touring capability.

Very very valid point. The same thing is mentioned repeatedly in other threads of Linea where they scoffed at it saying Grapes are sour & why the soul of the car is to be defended & just ignored Fiesta & NHC.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

I really don't understand why everybody is pissed off about the pricing.

in US (which I think is an unbiased market because of uniform taxing on various segments etc), fit is priced very close to corolla and civic.

And at that price in US, what all Honda gives in Jazz in US? And what all it is not giving in India?

[Glass]

Originally Posted by Glass

The only thing I don't agree with is why the sedan is automatically the preferred/superior choice and hence can be much higher priced than the hatch. Is there any technical or performance superiority the AHNC offers over the Jazz, or is it just the extra boot space that gives many the perception AHNC>Jazz?

Originally Posted by GTO

For 50,000 more, the City gives you:

1. A 1.5 liter engine & 27 more horses. The City is a great highway car too, the Jazz competent only within the city. By any measure of performance, the City is superior.
2. The City has an advantage in ride quality as well as handling.
3. Automatic available
4. Too early to take a call on this, yet most probably the City will retain its value better when its time for resale.

Makes sense from that perspective, thanks.

Interestingly, today's BusinessLine quotes the Honda MD saying the Jazz is actually more expensive than the City in Thailand etc. It is cheaper here because it qualifies for lesser excise, falling within the small car length.

On another point he says Honda would like to break the perception that a sedan is somehow superior to a hatch.

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

And at that price in US, what all Honda gives in Jazz in US? And what all it is not giving in India?

will that justify the difference of 4L?

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Unless some guy has been waiting all his life ONLY to buy the Jazz when it comes to India, most people do some bit of research before plonking down 8lakhs. And rest assured that just because someone is not on tbhp, does not mean they are not aware.

No, SB. Jazz will be mostly bought as a 2nd car in the family whoc owns Corolla/ Merc/ BMW etc & who'll not do any research damn the engine, damn the ride quality & Handling, damn the price. Anyone who does research on Price vs performance is highly unlikely to buy it.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

will that justify the difference of 4L?

you've not mentioned what all Honda gives in US in Jazz

[jassi]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

No, SB. Jazz will be mostly bought as a 2nd car in the family whoc owns Corolla/ Merc/ BMW etc & who'll not do any research damn the engine, damn the ride quality & Handling, damn the price. Anyone who does research on Price vs performance is highly unlikely to buy it.

and damn the features ??? I don't think so buddy - you can get more features at a lower price, then why buy the jazz - if someone is buying a 2nd car and they already own a premium car like corolla/merc/bmw, then I am sure they will look for those premium features like climate control, alloys, etc in the hatch too - where are these features in the jazz

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by prince_pervez

Ultimately, it will be the sales figures which will decide whether the Jazz is over priced or not. If Honda manages to sell 2000+ units a month then, it has worked for them, even with the jacked up prices. If not or, good sales only during the initial months then, it has not been a hit and that might encourage Honda to introduce price cuts (high hopes) or better packages (free servicing, insurance rebate etc. etc.)

Honda will be able to sale 2000 units a month- there are so many families who own Merc/ BMW/ Corolla/ Camry/ CRV who would buy Jazz as 2nd car in family. That would be very sad as it'll encourage Honda to continue milking Indian consumers

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

you've not mentioned what all Honda gives in US in Jazz

alright, here you go

2009 Honda Fit - Options and Pricing - Official Honda Web site

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by jassi

and damn the features ??? I don't think so buddy - you can get more features at a lower price, then why buy the jazz - if someone is buying a 2nd car and they already own a premium car like corolla/merc/bmw, then I am sure they will look for those premium features like climate control, alloys, etc in the hatch too - where are these features in the jazz

Check this thread & run thro' certain posts. Those guys guys give a damn to climate control, alloys etc. Till now they used to care a damn about interiors & features/ equipments also since ANHC is poor in that deppt. But now suddenly Interiors & features/ equipment have become one of the strong points since Jazz is good at that
Knowing Honda & how it does sales planning, 2000 units p.m. will be achieved. Sad but thats how it goes.

[VahanPujari]

in US (which I think is an unbiased market because of uniform taxing on various segments etc), fit is priced very close to corolla and civic.

Corolla in Bangkok is used as a Taxi whereas in India is premium premium car available only to a select few

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

alright, here you go

2009 Honda Fit - Options and Pricing - Official Honda Web site

OK. 1st things 1st. India OTR price is approax > 8.5 Lacs to < 9 Lacs for the top model.

Being 1.2 Engine, it qualifies for huge excise benefits hence Honda could (could?) kept the prices to 8.5 L. Excise benefits in the range of 75K to 1 Lacs? am not sure. So that comes to diff of 12 Lacs (what you quoted in US) less 9.5 = 2.5 Lacs.

77% of Jazz in India would be localised. Now labour cost & operating cost in India is dirt cheap thats why US companies are outsourcing from India, right? where will that difference / benefit go?

Now featurewise, from the link you posted, below are US Jazz top model features:

BTW, in US how are you saying 12 Lacs price - Link shows price of top model in US @ only $18,110 which comes to roughly Rs. 9 Lacs. Deduct the above benefits from it, deduct the prices of features missing in India & you'll know how Honda is ripping Indian customers.

Automatic transmission variant is available in US @ $850 more (Rs. 40,000). Honda oblidged Indians not giving it in India.

All features marked in Bold below (available in US) are not available in India. Where ?? mentioned, am not sure if available in India
Technical Features

• 117-hp, 1.5-Liter, 16-Valve SOHC i-VTEC® Engine
• ULEV-2 (Ultra-Low-Emission Vehicle) - ??
• Drive-By-Wire Throttle System™
• Front-Wheel Drive
• MacPherson Strut Front Suspension
• Torsion-Beam Rear Suspension
• Front and Rear Stabilizer Bars (All Fit Sport Models) - ??
• Electric Power-Assisted Rack-and-Pinion Steering (EPS)
• Power-Assisted Front Disc/Rear Drum Brakes
• 100K +/- Miles No Scheduled Tune-Ups[6]

Safety Features

• Dual-Stage, Dual-Threshold Front Airbags (SRS)
• Front Side Airbags with Passenger-Side Occupant Position Detection System (OPDS)
• Side Curtain Airbags
• Active Front Head Restraints
• Advanced Compatibility Engineering™ (ACE™) Body Structure - ??
• Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS)
• Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD)
• Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®) with Traction Control
• Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) -
• Daytime Running Lights (DRL) - ??
• Side-Impact Door Beams
• Outboard Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren (LATCH) -

Interior Features

• Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System™ with Voice Recognition[4]
• 160-Watt AM/FM/CD Audio System with 6 Speakers - not sure about wattage shd be < 160 watt in India
• USB Audio Interface[3]
• MP3/Windows Media® Audio (WMA) Playback Capability[2]
• MP3/Auxiliary Input Jack
• Speed-Sensitive Volume Control (SVC)
• Air Conditioning with Air-Filtration System
• Power Windows with Auto-Up/Down Driver's Window
• Cruise Control
• Perforated Leather-Wrapped Steering Wheel - ??
• Tilt and Telescopic Steering Column - Only tilt, no telescopic steering in India. Why?
• 10 Beverage Holders
• Cargo Area Bag Hooks
• Headlights-On Reminder
• Driver's and Front Passenger's Vanity Mirrors
• Map Lights
• 60/40 Split 2nd-Row Magic Seat® with Underseat Storage Compartment
• Blue Backlit Gauges
• Multi-Information Display (MID)
• Maintenance Minder™ System
• Current Fuel Consumption Indicator
• Average Fuel Consumption Indicator
• 12-Volt Power Outlet

Exterior Features

• Roof-Mounted Antenna
• Security System with Remote Entry
• Body-Colored Folding Power Side Mirrors - Not power-folding in India
• Body-Colored Door Handles
• 2-Speed/Intermittent Windshield Wipers
• Rear Window Wiper/Washer
• Impact-Absorbing Body-Colored Bumpers
• Fog Lights - Honda never gives Fog Lights in India. Why? American lives are more worthy/ costlier?
• Multi-Reflector Halogen Headlights with Tinted Chrome Bezels -
• Body-Colored Underbody Kit
• Body-Colored Rear Roofline Spoiler
• Chrome Exhaust Finisher
• Tinted Glass
• 16" Alloy Wheels - Honda never gives Alloy as standard in India. Why? Indians are plain simple people & Americans are funky?

[CBlazer]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

when you can pay upwards of 12 L on the other two cars on india, isn't FIT practical at 8 L?
PS: I am not a honda fan. but it just doesn't seem as outrageous as everybody is making it believe.

Let's stay with Jazz's competition. Let's talk about i20. How is Hyundai able to provide all those extra features for a much lesser price? How was Skoda with ~90% import content and all those first-in-it's-class features able to price the Fabia Elegance 1.4 MPi at 8L OTR?

For me, the issue with Jazz is not as much about the price as it is about the lack of premium features. I agree, Honda is always known to charge a premium due to the image they have in India - just that the premium seems ridiculously high this time.

I believe this forum is doing a lot of good for potential customers, in that we get to know and debate a lot of stuff. If some members do go out and buy a Jazz we really should respect their decision.

[Equus]

Guys, can we focus back on the "Test Drive and Review" of Jazz instead of the price war! VFM and Honda dont go along, atleast in India. Honda India very well know what they are doing, and probably want to sell only 20k units per year which means they are targetting the upper++ middle class. Why should anyone have a problem with that??
The car looks nice (I am biased!) and extremely practical. I wouldnt probably spend that much to own this car, but would envy the owners for sure

I really wish Maruti makes bigger hatches (atleast 10 inches longer and 10 inches wider!). The VFM junta will cheer them like never before.

PS: Own NHC - views may be biased.

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

BTW, in US how are you saying 12 Lacs price - Link shows price of top model in US @ only $18,110 which comes to roughly Rs. 9 Lacs.

Dude, that's why I put corolla and civic in picture. It's a known fact that cars in India are 50-100% costlier because of duties. That's why I was saying FIT/JAZZ at comparable prices was a pleasant surprise to me (I am serious). I was avoiding to let a friend wait for it because I didn't expect it to launch at < 12L. Let's continue on the other aspects of the car now.

[anilkalvani]

Courtesy: Rediff iShare

Rediff iShare: Hormazd Sorabjee on the Honda Jazz and more