[adimicra]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Drive the Jazz with a 1.5 and you will know why I consider the 1.2 an apology of an engine. The Jazz is sold worldwide, for a price similar to that of the City, with the same engine. All Honda achieved with the 1.2 is a discount to the City driven by excise differentials - which obviously was not enough to induce the value conscious to pay for it over the i20 and its ilk.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Jazz for its packaging, and very happily owned a Honda City from 2004 to 2010. At one stage, I never thought I would shift from Honda. But Honda is getting things wrong beyond just the absence of a Diesel engine. And it's failure to position the Jazz appropriately, such that it found favour with at least one substantial segment of Indian buyers, is an example of that failure. The fact that a Honda loyalist like me ended up buying a Superb and a Vento (both petrol automatics, by the way) instead of an Accord and a City (despite having loved my old City) is another example of this failure.

I am not going to debate about the reasons for a waiting list and the sales being bad but you should know a few facts.
First of all before comparing the sales of Jazz with any other competitor (if there are really any), do you know the Jazz is the only car in the segment which does not come up with basic versions? even the base version is almost fully loaded. How many Swift ZXI's sell in the market?
Second, ask someone who has been to the Honda showroom in the recent past to buy a Jazz, the dealers are so very reluctant to sell one. They will do whatever possible to push you towards a City or a Brio. Obviously, this can't happen without the blessing of the company. Have you see Honda trying to promote Jazz through advertisements? May be they were not making money on Jazz or whatever.

Now, coming to the engine, I repeat the 1.2 Ivtec is the best engine in the segment, the Kappa 1.2 may be a close second. Now, since you mentioned I20 somewhere, drive the Jazz and the I20 in the highway and you will know the difference. The Jazz will go past 140 when the I20 will be near 120. Drive the Polo and I am sure you will feel that be an apology of an engine when compared to Jazz.

Obviously, the 1.5L engine would be better for performance but the difference is not as huge as you are screaming. Also, the 1.2 is more rev happy than the 1.5. If I drive a Civic, then I drive the City , should I say that the 1.5 is an apology of an engine? That's too harsh of a statement.

And as much as I would have liked the 1.5 in the Jazz, I don't blame Honda for giving the 1.2 instead. They have tried to keep the costs down to an extent..otherwise, who will buy the Jazz at the price of the City?It is a good engine and one of the best in the segment, so nothing much to complain about.

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by adimicra

I am not going to debate about the reasons for a waiting list and the sales being bad but you should know a few facts.
First of all before comparing the sales of Jazz with any other competitor (if there are really any), do you know the Jazz is the only car in the segment which does not come up with basic versions? even the base version is almost fully loaded. How many Swift ZXI's sell in the market?

I agree with your points adimicra. We just cannot compare the Jazz with any other car in India, be it style, the engine, the cabin, or even the number of units sold. Its a very unique car in all aspects.

Your point about Swift is bang on. One guy in our society bought the Swift LXi yesterday at 5.6 lacs on road. You get peanuts in a 5.6 lacs premium car, IMHO. (No offense meant for existing owners.)

I really wish Honda revamps the Jazz soon and launches a new version with may be a 1.4 petrol liter engine or something and the i-Dtec engine in the near future.

[crisscross]

Wanted to add my 2 cents to the debate as very happy owner of a Jazz. I know for a lot of people Jazz is not a good buy, due to some combination of the price features etc. But it works very well for us & for people who value what Jazz offers.

Everyone we spoke to advised against buying the Jazz, (except on team-bhp, where it was more balanced). We dont regret buying it one bit, the combination of space, flexibility, smoothness & the honda reliability is something that we value a lot. I have driven a fully loaded Jazz with 5 people + luggage at 140 - 160 kmph on the highway without a problem. Sure in the city at slow speeds, the engine is not powerful enough, it is a tradeoff one makes thanks to the tax laws & our preference for a space of a large car with the maneuverability of a smaller car.

The only major problem with the Jazz in my mind is the rear suspension, which was fixed after the re-launch I heard. Would I be happy with a 1.5 litre engine .. sure, would it be better ... of course, but is the difference worth the extra cost i.e. upfront & fuel costs ... I guess that is a matter of opinion. I personally hope to see a revamped Jazz make a quick comeback.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by crisscross

.....

The only major problem with the Jazz in my mind is the rear suspension, which was fixed after the re-launch I heard. Would I be happy with a 1.5 litre engine .. sure, would it be better ... of course, but is the difference worth the extra cost i.e. upfront & fuel costs ... I guess that is a matter of opinion. I personally hope to see a revamped Jazz make a quick comeback.

very well said!
What's the problem with the rear suspension you are mentioning?

[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by Hayek

...Drive the Jazz with a 1.5 and you will know why I consider the 1.2 an apology of an engine.... The fact that a Honda loyalist like me ended up buying a Superb and a Vento (both petrol automatics, by the way) instead of an Accord and a City (despite having loved my old City) is another example of this failure...

Are you saying that a 1.5 Jazz would have saved the product from the fate it met? In spite of it having been more expensive to buy and less fuel efficient that the 1.2??

The only hatches that offer anything more than a 1.2 are the 1.6 Polo/Fabia cousins (as far as I can remember now and talking strictly petrol). They sure are better engines than their 1.2 sisters, but I'm pretty sure neither have been selling anywhere near the numbers the Jazz was selling. A 1.5 Jazz would have rocked, no doubts, but would have met a sooner end than the 1.2 did.

It's unfortunate that you have lost trust in your once beloved brand, but what exactly is wrong with the positioning of the City and Accord??

Mods, just discovered another thread discussing the discontinuation of the Jazz which is already 4 pages long - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...roduction.html Could we please merge this discussion (from post 2141) to that thread?

[crisscross]

Originally Posted by adimicra

very well said!
What's the problem with the rear suspension you are mentioning?

I find that the rear seats are quite bumpy when going over speed breakers, & unless I slow down to an absolute crawl it is very bumpy. The other thing I noticed when am at high speeds, & if the road is a bit wavy the rear seats especially bounces. My cousin bought a FIT in the US some years back & returned it as he was unhappy with the rear suspension, so I dont think this is unique to my Jazz.

Am considering the Coil Spring Adjusters suggested by GTO, before I do that I plan to get the suspension checked at the next service.

[aaren]

Having owned a Jazz for 18 months and driving in some poor road conditions - I believe Jazz is one heck of a vehicle. No doubt, a 1.5l engine would have been good; but 1.2l engine has performed very well. And I think, the design is amazing (at least many of the BHPians here and certainly to me). It is a practical Hatch with the space of a sedan and it has certainly met my expectations in many regards. Well, am looking forward to seeing the next gen Jazz early next year !!

[adimicra]

New Honda Jazz 2014 to debut in Tokyo motor show in Novemeber this year.
Eagerly looking forward..

Source: Motoroids.

http://networkedblogs.com/JaJEx

[sarthakgupta]

Some information regarding upcoming 2014 Honda Jazz:

Brazilian publication Car&Driver reports that the all new Jazz would have a 6cm longer wheelbase and hence, will have an even roomier cabin than the current model. However, the increased wheelbase won’t really affect the overall length and the new Jazz won’t be longer than 3.96m.

This means that the new Jazz will benefit from reduced excise duty in India and might be priced really well.

The new car will come with a taillight cluster that would be shaped like a diamond and the boot, at 414 litres, will offer 30 litres of more space. The new car will also get triangular reflectors incorporated into its bumpers. The car will borrow many design cues from the Urban SUV concept that was showcased at the North American International Auto Show 2013.

Powering the car might be an all new three cylinder petrol engine that might stretch a litre of unleaded to as many as 35.4 kilometers!

For the Indian market, the Jazz could borrow the 1.5L EarthDreams diesel engine from the upcoming Honda Brio Amaze.

Source:http://indianautosblog.com/2013/03/2...-details-67132

[sa_kiran]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Powering the car might be an all new three cylinder petrol engine that might stretch a litre of unleaded to as many as 35.4 kilometers!

Honda is giving a lot of good news today. First it was the news of them supplying engines to McLaren in F1 and now 35.4 kmpl. Brazil has ethanol in petrol, not sure about the percentage. Does that affect the mileage? Engine on a high Or will be perform the same with our adulterated petrol (sadly, not with ethanol)?

[nkishore_007]

It would be good if Honda decides to implant a iDtec in Jazz's heart subject to their decision on bring it back onto Indian market.
Only one thing Honda needs to make sure is to price it competitively (does not necessary mean pushing the bar below their profit levels); maybe something like ANHC. There are other brands priced same or higher than it, but ANHC provides almost everything in return.

[Baddychat]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Some information regarding upcoming 2014 Honda Jazz:


Source:http://indianautosblog.com/2013/03/2...-details-67132

The attached is a 2013 Honda Fit and has been available in quite a few markets worldwide for sometime now. I remember having seen it in some SE Asian countries even in 2010.
Honda uses the Jazz brand name in a very few markets. What could happen is that Honda could straight away relaunch the Fit as Jazz in India this year or the next.
This is the link to the 2013 Fit page (US) : http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/

Cheers,

[mail4ajo]

Recently both my high beams blew exactly at the same time. They were Osram stock spec headlamps. I am confused why both blew at the same time. Should I check the wiring?

I replaced them DIY with stock spares, was a 5 minute job, so easy.

[khoj]

Ethanol has been mixed in all white fuel sold in our country for nearly a decade now. The percentage though is less compared to what it is in Brazil. It was 5% when the policy was introduced it was supposed to have gone up to 15%, not sure whether that target was achieved but the mix is there for sure.

BTW do you have any details on the Honda engine supply bit to McLaren, would love to know more.

Originally Posted by sa_kiran

Honda is giving a lot of good news today. First it was the news of them supplying engines to McLaren in F1 and now 35.4 kmpl. Brazil has ethanol in petrol, not sure about the percentage. Does that affect the mileage? Engine on a high Or will be perform the same with our adulterated petrol (sadly, not with ethanol)?

[JazzXBlore]

Slightly off the topic from the last few posts. This is a query regarding accessories and enhancements on the Jazz. Has anyone tried the illuminated Door Sill plates or LED lights on the Jazz. Any pointers with pictures and places to find them would be useful.