[sauravdc]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

A bliss I love to keep trying. Gets a smile on the face. One suggestion: as much as possible avaoid clutch riding. Slot the gear in first or second gear and slowly release the clutch, the car will keep moving without stalling.



I don't care what Maruti or Fiat have to say or recommend as I just don't go by their word. I love my car and my engine so I changed the oil (15W40 - used to cost 300/litre In 2011) every 5K kms till 30K kms service post which the interval is 10K kms. The engibe feels great till 8000-8500 kms from oil change post which the NVH from engine goes high and the overall clatter is evident.



It depwnds on the environment conditions in Kolkata. I would recommend use 5W40 for the car.

In mine the oil is by Shell/Castrol with the 5W40 grade. This is the synthetic variant and I change it every 10K kms.

Anurag.

Hi,

Did a lot of driving around and querying around today.

Driving in the "new" style suggested by you, up-shifting exactly @ 2000 rpm before the turbo kicks in and down-shifting before the engine lugs. No I never ride half clutch for long (something my father taught me to extend life of clutch plate). Even downshift to 1st and keep rolling, if I have to drive at 'walking speed' (say following a cycle rickshaw) for long. Enjoying the bliss. Have learnt how to do it on congested roads of Kolkata too. (Now roads are more congested due to Durga Puja). Tanked up midway today to study any change of mileage. Sudden traffic congestion of Kolkata due to Durga Puja factor has brought down the city mileage from 16 to 13 over the last 3 days.

Spoke to a few oil dealers and MASS engineers.

Oil dealers wanted to sell the highest price oil, suggested Castrol Edge, Motul Xxxxxxx, Mobil Delvac1, etc. etc. for reasons of blah, blah. I understood, they got someone (read: "murga") to sell a Rs 1100/lt oil in a 4 lt package. They did not have stock (naturally - who uses such high priced oil in a low economy city like Kolkata) but will get one if I make an advance. Thanks to all of them for their "help".

Had a looooong discussion with my MASS engineers & came up with a practical solution. (Very similar to yours).

Now my car is running on factory filled 5W40 oil (possibly Castrol - looking at the OEM tie-ups when my car left MS factory). The first oil change @ 10000 kms will be Servo 15W40. MASSs in Kolkata generally does not stock 5W40 for cost reasons, but can get it if required. Now MS recommends oil change every 10K kms for DDIS engines. Practically, MASS recommends 10K interval for 5W40 oils, but a max 6-7K for 15W40 oils, looking at the practical driving conditions and tropical nature of climate in Kolkata.
I also asked why Fiat (the supplier of 1.3L MJD engines) recommends only 5W40 oils and 15K interval for oil change. Firstly, the reason (it seems - to my SA @ MASS) is that the 15K interval is not as per Indian standards, it is as per European standards of road, traffic, pollution & climate. No known to him what Fiat recommends in India for its MJD cars. Secondly, MS has tweaked the Fiat MJD engines before putting them in MS cars. Hence, the 10K interval.
As for the oil grade, even MS recommends 5W40 for these engines like Fiat, but 15W40 works well in Indian conditions in these engines. Hence it is choice #2 for MS. In Europe, 5W40 oil is more readily available as compared to India and price differential is not as big as in India. Again, 5W40 is a must where temperatures are near to freezing point. This condition is more prevalent in European winters than Indian winters. Even in India, cars in Himalayan states should better use 5W40 keeping in mind the winter temperatures. But I am in Kolkata and the car will run in the eastern part of India only (unless otherwise I decide toe take my car to J&K during winter). So 15W40 is fine, but change interval better be reduced to 6-7K kms.
No we cannot get our own oil during 3rd service. Own oil means, customer cannot buy oil of his/her choice from the market and MASS pours it. Reasons are commercial, MS gets to bill it to customers for a service otherwise rendered free. The legal aspect they have put is, if own oil is poured, (even if it is exactly the same as what MASS is selling) it voids warranty (no technical reasons - can be argued at length). Hands tied for MASS (to prevent any "setting" between customer & MASS) also by ensuring that the cost of the oil is billed in the software, and only then the payment for 3rd free service is released to the MASS by MS.
This clause is not there for paid services. For e.g. I get my own oil for my M800 (13 yrs old) for the oil change. MASS writes a comment on the job card, "Oil given by customer". They charge for other labour and consumables like filter, etc. However, this flexibility of getting your own oil is only permitted for engine oils in sealed packs (not permitted for other oils and consumables).

Now the solution: Let the first change be of Servo (that is the tie-up now). The next change will be under paid service, so I can get my own oil.
As per my SA @ MASS, I have got two choices:
#1: Pour Servo 15W40 at ODO=10K and then change oil @ every 6-7K kms interval with 15W40 of my choice. Repeat this process till I keep the car.
#2: Pour Servo 15W40 at ODO=10K and then change oil at ODO=16/17K and pour 5W40 of my choice. Next change oil @ every 10K kms interval with 5W40 of my choice.

I came up with a third, banking on the theory of climatic conditions of Eastern India, non-freezing temperatures, Fiat-Europe vs MS-India, etc. etc.
Keep pouring 15W40 of my choice (except the ODO=10K change) but change interval to be every 5K kms. Now 15W40 oil deterioration at 5K will not be as bad as 5W40 at 10K (agreed by my SA). Price factor: INR 1100 every 5K kms = INR 2200 every 10K Kms with 15W40 oil. VS INR 4000+ every 10K kms for 5W40 oil. Surely a factor for keeping maintenance costs under control.
Also the engine gets "fresh" oil every 5K kms. My SA recommended to go in for Castrol Magnatec 15W40. He says it is semi-synthetic and a very good oil.
Also, this model is good for the current difference of market prices of 5W40 and 15W40. My SA feels that in future, with more and more engines using 5W40, price differential may come down to European levels (narrow down - in short) and then the change model can well be 5W40 every 10K kms without burning a hole in the pocket.
Like I said: the proposed model is very similar to what you have followed. Maybe, in future the relative difference of prices of 15W40 and 5W40 may close in, and I might start using 5W40. Till then I will use 15W40 every 5K kms. Also, good oil to be used in the old engine !!

Suggestions ...

Regards,
Saurav

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by sauravdc

The legal aspect they have put is, if own oil is poured, (even if it is exactly the same as what MASS is selling) it voids warranty (no technical reasons - can be argued at length).

Give poor Maruti some business. You get your own oil and ask them to charge only for labour is not fair. Follow the rules till the car is in Warranty post which it is your wish. They would have tied up with oil supplier for the oils and if you get from outside they loose business so that is the reason they say it'll void warranty. Nothing else but just a business trick.

Originally Posted by sauravdc

Like I said: the proposed model is very similar to what you have followed. Maybe, in future the relative difference of prices of 15W40 and 5W40 may close in, and I might start using 5W40. Till then I will use 15W40 every 5K kms.

Fill in 5W40 @10 K kms service. And post that do with 15W40 oil at regular 5K intervals. Good decision on the model and all the best. Happy driving.

OT: Happy durga puja to you and your family.

Anurag.

[sauravdc]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Give poor Maruti some business. You get your own oil and ask them to charge only for labour is not fair. Follow the rules till the car is in Warranty post which it is your wish. They would have tied up with oil supplier for the oils and if you get from outside they loose business so that is the reason they say it'll void warranty. Nothing else but just a business trick.



Fill in 5W40 @10 K kms service. And post that do with 15W40 oil at regular 5K intervals. Good decision on the model and all the best. Happy driving.

OT: Happy durga puja to you and your family.

Anurag.

Ha .. ha ..

Agreed, lets give Maruti some business ...
I know it is all commercial reason why we are forced to buy oil from them within warranty period. Fine will abide by like a "good boy". post that it is "meri marzi".

Did the "bliss" driving again tonight. Learnt to do it even in bumper to bumper traffic of Kolkata (esp Durga Puja traffic). Was 'pandal hopping' from 9:30PM to 2:30AM. Did quite some midnight driving. Traffic was bumper to bumper at 2AM (heavier traffic than 7PM office traffic).
Upshifting @ 2000 instead of 1500 is fun. We (wife & self) thanked you all along the drive. (Did you get "hitchky"s ?)

Oil @ 10K service cannot be 5W40, will be Servo 15W40, since that is the current tie-up pattern in Kolkata MASSs. Can do a thing: change to 15W40 @10K service and fill 5W40 @ 15K service instead of 15W40 again, and then skip oil change @ 20K service and change oil again @ 25K service with 15W40 and thereafter every 5K with 15W40.

What say?

Good wishes for Navratri to you too.

Regards,
Saurav

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by sauravdc

Upshifting @ 2000 instead of 1500 is fun. We (wife & self) thanked you all along the drive. (Did you get "hitchky"s ?)

Lol, I didn't the hitchky's yesterday. You'll have to try harder

Originally Posted by sauravdc

Can do a thing: change to 15W40 @10K service and fill 5W40 @ 15K service instead of 15W40 again, and then skip oil change @ 20K service and change oil again @ 25K service with 15W40 and thereafter every 5K with 15W40.

Don't skip oil changes that are at even number (10K, 20K, 40K, 60K, 80K & 100K) intervals. These are the major service that help the car in long run and important in both healthwise and warranty wise. If the tie-up is for 15W40 then keep pouring that and change it every 5K kms. Simple.

Till the car is under warranty you'll have to get the oil change as what MASS recommends for the engine.

Have you taken extended warranty? When was the car purchased and how long is the warranty for you?

Anurag.

[sauravdc]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Lol, I didn't the hitchky's yesterday. You'll have to try harder

Don't skip oil changes that are at even number (10K, 20K, 40K, 60K, 80K & 100K) intervals. These are the major service that help the car in long run and important in both healthwise and warranty wise. If the tie-up is for 15W40 then keep pouring that and change it every 5K kms. Simple.

Till the car is under warranty you'll have to get the oil change as what MASS recommends for the engine.

Have you taken extended warranty? When was the car purchased and how long is the warranty for you?

Anurag.

OK

Point noted ...

Then 15W40 every 5K kms ...

Yes I have extended warranty. The 3rd year came "free" with the on-road price of the vehicle. It was bought on 27th December and delivery taken on 30th December 2012 (and then went out with friends on the 31st night).
So warranty expires 24+12=36 months from purchase date (29th December 2015).

My regular running is 900 kms a month, plus occasional long drives, minus car in garage if I am out of Kolkata on office work, hoping to make it about 10K kms per year. The Ritz did 1076 in 1 month (1st service), 4976 in 6 months (2nd service), 8540 in 9.5 months.

My M800 ran for 9234 kms in entire 2012 calender year.

Regards,
Saurav

[pacman2881]

Originally Posted by Granville

@pacman, for the problem you have quoted, one may try rotating the wheels if it has not been done earlier. Wheel rotation is generally the cure for this humming noise/vibration issue, especially since it is present even when one is coasting in neutral. If one may ask, how many kms has your car run?

Originally Posted by a4anurag

LXi / LDi / VXi / VDi - 165/80 R 14

ZXi / ZDi - 185/65 R 15.

The overall diameter remains the same but yes the load on the steering system is more on a 'Z' variant but not alarming enough to have problems.

Anurag.

Thanks for all your inputs. The noise is almost non existent after tyre rotation and brake cleaning. Now I am also upgrading to 185 tyres (chosen ER60). Very excited to check how the car will behave with the new rubber

[automobilophile]

Originally Posted by Simple_car

Hi InControl,

The clutchplates being shot has nothing to do with the pick up. I have a ritz vxi too. When you press the accelerator lightly, and then release the clutch, are you getting a slight / more than slight judder from the car? If so, then this is the most common symptom for shot clutch plates. If you are still not convinced, go to a independent garage and inspect the plates visually. If they seem burnt, then its best to replace.
Please do note, I have actually run my car on shot clutch plates for upto 5k kms before replacing.

Regarding A.S.S. in yesvantpur, sorry, I have no idea.

Thanks,
Simple_car

Hi Simple_car,

I am seeing this judder problem in my brand new Ritz-Vxi . After covering just 35 kms, I started noticing a sufficiently strong judder when I disengage the clutch in 1st gear at around 1500 rpm. Any idea what could be the problem in such a new car?

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by automobilophile

I started noticing a sufficiently strong judder when I disengage the clutch in 1st gear at around 1500 rpm. Any idea what could be the problem in such a new car?

That is bad. It could be a problem with the clutch per say. Manufacturing defect may be. Get it inspected and changed under warranty.

Anurag.

[Simple_car]

Originally Posted by automobilophile

I am seeing this judder problem in my brand new Ritz-Vxi... when I disengage the clutch in 1st gear at around 1500 rpm.

Although it has been a very long time since I drove the car now, I would just like to point out that the rpm which you have mentioned while disengaging clutch is actually a little high for normal flat roads. I believe that the idle rpm for the ritz is ~800 - 900 rpm. You are just supposed to lightly tap the accelerator and release the clutch; i.e. the rpm should rise to say ~1000 -1100.

Unless of course you are on a incline / the car is full loaded. Then it is another matter.

Check it out if there is a judder at the said rpm's, and if still present, then it is definitely a problem. Let us know.

Thanks,
Simple_car

[automobilophile]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

That is bad. It could be a problem with the clutch per say. Manufacturing defect may be. Get it inspected and changed under warranty.

Anurag.

Yes, I would be visiting them coming saturday and want to get this inspected.

However, it is surprising. Note, this is when I disengage the engine (i.e when I depress the clutch) with AC on and in 1st gear aroudn 1500 rpm.
The vehicle shakes a bit when I depress the clutch as if it some one jerked the vehicle.
I am not sure if it is a clutch problem because this is noticed when I depress the clutch, not while releasing the clutch pedal.

Did anyone notice such thing?

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by automobilophile

I started noticing a sufficiently strong judder when I disengage the clutch in 1st gear at around 1500 rpm

1500 RPM is a high for a first gear launch!

For the Ritz I don't think you need to press the pedal that much for a start.

Are you trying to do a burnout or something?! You go a bit higher say 2000 RPM and your sure to have a burnt out Or you want a launch control start!

Originally Posted by automobilophile

Yes, I would be visiting them coming saturday and want to get this inspected.

Please update what MASS has to say on this problem as the car is brand new and NOT acceptable at all.

Originally Posted by automobilophile

I am not sure if it is a clutch problem because this is noticed when I depress the clutch, not while releasing the clutch pedal.

I would still have my doubts on the clutch and it's linkages. Have a look at the links and bolting of the clutch for proper fitments.

Originally Posted by Simple_car

I would just like to point out that the rpm which you have mentioned while disengaging clutch is actually a little high for normal flat roads. I believe that the idle rpm for the ritz is ~800 - 900 rpm. You are just supposed to lightly tap the accelerator and release the clutch; i.e. the rpm should rise to say ~1000 -1100.

+1

Anurag.

[automobilophile]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

1500 RPM is a high for a first gear launch!

For the Ritz I don't think you need to press the pedal that much for a start.

Are you trying to do a burnout or something?! You go a bit higher say 2000 RPM and your sure to have a burnt out Or you want a launch control start!



Please update what MASS has to say on this problem as the car is brand new and NOT acceptable at all.



I would still have my doubts on the clutch and it's linkages. Have a look at the links and bolting of the clutch for proper fitments.



+1

Anurag.

oh no.. I think I was not clear in my description.

Well, I put to 1st gear and release my clutch with very little acceleration say around 1000 rpm and car starts rolling. I accelerate till about 1500 rpm and now when I depress the clutch to change gear to 2nd I feel the sudden vibration just before engine is decoupled from the transmission.
When the clutch is completely depressed there is no vibration. Then I move to 2nd gear and things are fine.

At higher gears like moving from 2nd to 3rd etc this vibration is less noticeable..

Any idea what is going on?

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by automobilophile

oh no.. I think I was not clear in my description.

Originally Posted by automobilophile

Well, I put to 1st gear and release my clutch with very little acceleration say around 1000 rpm and car starts rolling. I accelerate till about 1500 rpm and now when I depress the clutch to change gear to 2nd I feel the sudden vibration just before engine is decoupled from the transmission.

1500 rpm for a gear change / upshift is low buddy. Try changing gears at 2000 rpm and see whether you have the vibrations felt?!

I am clueless but guessing that the clutch is not insulated from the engine properly while engaging and disengaging process is going on.

Anurag.

[automobilophile]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

1500 rpm for a gear change / upshift is low buddy. Try changing gears at 2000 rpm and see whether you have the vibrations felt?!

I am clueless but guessing that the clutch is not insulated from the engine properly while engaging and disengaging process is going on.

Anurag.

At 2000 rpm the vibration is much higher. Its more like a jolt than a vibration. Your car expriences a jolt when you depress the clutch (just when the engine disconnects from transmission)

When releasing the clutch its perfectly fine. Its only when you depress the clutch for up shift.
what does "not insulated" mean? I hope this is not a major problem and some loose nut/bolt somwhere.

[Simple_car]

Originally Posted by automobilophile

Well, I put to 1st gear and release my clutch with very little acceleration say around 1000 rpm and car starts rolling. I accelerate till about 1500 rpm and now when I depress the clutch to change gear to 2nd I feel the sudden vibration just before engine is decoupled from the transmission.

At higher gears like moving from 2nd to 3rd etc this vibration is less noticeable..

That you are facing a problem in other gears points to 2 possibilities which have to be inspected first:
- the clutch release bearings have most likely have gone bad. This is the most likely possibility to me.
- flywheel should be inspected.

There are other possibilities, but these are the most likely as of now. Take your car to the M.A.S.S. and have it done under warranty.

Thanks,
Simple_car

P.S. Please change gears when rpm is around 2000 or thereabouts. Changing at 1500 is not recommended at all.