[RPRIME95]

Been a while since I wrote my first ownership thread - "Lola is home - My TVS Apache RR310 BS6 ownership review"

That particular purchase was made in August 2020 and brought home in September 2020. Since then, I have completed my P.G.D.M and moved to Pune for a new job opportunity. Within a year, Pune's renowned traffic made one thing very clear. The RR310 was not a bike that should be used daily in stop-go traffic. Add in the dry weather and well, I never would have thought I would miss 'sweating' as much as I did. And so began the itch for something with a roof, that is large enough to house my healthy frame comfortably and be spacious yet compact.

Stage 1 - The Deliberation

For a quick backstory, my family already owns a car. It is a Tata Tiago XTA (2017). And I love that car. It's peppy when required, the AMT is great and the handling is the crown jewel. Honorable mention to the splendid Tata suspension. The only problem for me, it's small size which makes it uncomfortable for long drives. So I knew I had to go up.

The search area was quite clear. Start from Punch/Altroz/i20 and go up to Creta/Seltos if needed. But what I did not anticipate was the seating position and comfort in some of these cars. Let us look at them one by one.

Disclaimer: I was looking for an automatic only. No Manual. Any type of Automatic was ok for me.

1. Tata Punch

This was a no-brainer at first. Has a newer ALFA platform than the Tiago, is taller, comes loaded with features, and the top automatic variant is priced under 12 lakhs OTR. Looks like the perfect buy on paper, but the reality is quite different.

Test drove the top variant with a sunroof and it was not a problem. I had more than sufficient headroom and a good view out of the windscreen. The driving felt pretty similar to the Tiago, just taller. However, it lacked that cohesive feel from the interior. The infotainment looks too small, the center console looks like Tata forgot to add it until very late in the process and the door trim abruptly ending midway looked like an afterthought.

Hence the Punch lost its lustre in my mind and I took it off the board.

2. Hyundai i20 N Line

Why not the standard i20, you may ask? For the price, it has less overall features than the Altroz and does not look any better. This is where the N Line shines. Smashing paint scheme (especially in Thunder Grey), loaded with features and a fantastic engine-gearbox combination.

Only 2 issues here. The price is the same as mid-spec variants of C-SUVs and the center console interferes with the left knee. Deal breaker right there.

3. Tata Altroz

Originally, this was my first choice before the Punch. The only reason it is down at number 3 is the absence of an automatic in the iTurbo variants. Test drove a dealer vehicle as well as a colleague's car, recently purchased. Both were 1.2 NA Automatic. Two words, butter smooth.

The only issue was the infotainment. But there was hope. Tata had shown the Altroz racer at the Auto Expo with the large infotainment screen. The only reason I need to wait it out. But days turned into months without any indication of a launch date or even spy shots of a test mule. Still held hope until it's bigger brother broke cover.

4. Hyundai Venue N-Line

Great car, fantastic engine-gearbox, cool points for ADAS Level 1 and fabulous paint scheme. The downsides? Too much chrome on the exterior, severely lacks features and very cramped interiors.

5. Tata Nexon Facelift

Tata just pulled out the rug from under its rivals at the launch. I was following it on Carwale website when a particular detail caught my eye. 10.25inch customizable instrument cluster with Navigation display? Brain immediately went 'Audi'. I know Mahindra already had a version of it on their XUV7OO, but this felt something else.

Then the variant list came out. And the top two almost immediately eliminated all consideration of any other car. Only the Sonet facelift was pending. Did not have much expectation from it. Boy, was I wrong. Nevertheless, the Nexon was decided and pre-booked. Adrenaline was high until prices were out. The facelift was almost 2 lakhs pricier than the outgoing Red Dark edition. Yes the DCA was carrying a hefty penalty but this was quite a large sum.

Only then I realised, I had to save up. Everything this size was similarly priced, even though less equipped. The plan was shelved.

6. Kia Sonet

The launch of the facelift brought me back. By this time, I had saved up more and received a good yearly bonus. Test drove the GT Line and was blown away. This car felt like a segment above. Interiors were amazing, the engine-gearbox was fantastic as before and the overall quality of fit and finish was great. Price was also in the same league as the Nexon with similar features.

Space was a bit cramped but something I could live with. Not a deal breaker. This time, the company/dealer policy turned me away. For reference, the actual car costs less than the top spec Nexon. But you have to get about Rs. 25000 accessories as minimum with the actual amount quoted of Rs.40000.

I dislike too much chrome and unnecessarily expensive mats, visors and so on. That 40k would have been grudgingly paid and I did not want that.

7. Hyundai Creta/Kia Seltos

Great cars with their own minor niggles. I felt the dashboard was too low in the facelifted Seltos and lowering my seat did not help. As for the Creta, my cousin owns one and I have driven it on multiple occasions. Never gelled with the car and the test drive confirmed the same.

Add in the fact that the only Automatic variants available were either CVT or iMT, the size and features did not justify the extra investment.

Stage 2 - The Decision

At this point, it was clear that the 2 best options were the Kia Seltos and the Tata Nexon. Both had the right feature set, were priced within 10-15k of one another and the overall reviews for the service and sales were on par with others.

An important thing to remember at this point is that I was not looking to buy the top variant of either car. I was comfortable with an AMT so my initial enquiry was for the Creative+ AMT variant of the Nexon and the HTX DCT of the Sonet. Here the Nexon had better features but the Sonet had the edge on the interior. Test drove both and both were similar. Neither blew me away or let me down. But one thing became clear, it did not feel special.

So I started to look at the top variants and their pricing. Here the Sonet was at a disadvantage since the Sunroof was not optional plus the fact that Kia was unwilling to quote me a price without accessories. One point in Kia's favor though, their insurance includes some great add-ons, even if the quoted price is on the higher side. Anyone buying a Kia should try and negotiate there for a better deal. Anyway, the Nexon could be specced without a Sunroof at the top end, so I was leaning towards it although it was sad that I would miss out on the JBL speaker system with the Subwoofer.

The only question that remained was finances. A loan was necessary as I am also planning to purchase a home soon. So out came the calculator app. Thankfully the difference in EMI from my original amount for the Creative+ and the new amount for Fearless+ was only around 1.8k since the downpayment was staying the same. That sounded good to me and a quick calculation confirmed it to be within the monthly budget.

It was decided. A Tata Nexon Fearless+ would be joining the garage. The only decision remaining, perhaps the most important one, was the choice of color. There are 4 shades on offer - White, Grey, Red and Purple. White was stunning but too common so it was out. The Grey was a bit too dark than what I would have liked plus I had seen a few on the road and it was honestly not that appealing. So it came down between Red and Purple. My RR310 is also Red, so that was a disadvantage from the start and Purple was the halo color, which meant a lot of people would be buying that.

Fearless Purple Colour


Other colours available for Fearless variants


This tumbling went on for a few days until one random moment caught me. My first bike was a Brilliant Blue Bajaj Discover 100T. The second one was a Racing Red RR310. How great it would be to get my car in a color that was an almost perfect mix of the two. Fearless Purple (yes that is what they call it) was set in the heart and soon on the booking sheet.

A Fearless Purple Tata Nexon Fearless+ (one too many 'fearless' in there) was coming home.

Stage 3 - The Purchase

With all decisions done, popped down to the 'good' Tata dealer and made my booking. They offered a test drive once again, which I promptly accepted. They, however, did not have Fearless+ (without a sunroof) with them and upon asking why, all I got was the fact that it is not as popular as Fearless+ S or just Fearless S. Hence Tata refused to send out a TD vehicle. While it would have been good to drive the exact variant, I understand that Tata has to prioritize and not send every variant as a TD vehicle. This however planted a seed of doubt about the manufacturing of the car and what exact car would I be allotted.

As soon as the booking was done, the loan guy came up, shared his number, and sent the list of all required documents. The interest rate was between 8.8% and 9.1% depending on the bank and my CIBIL score. I started to research and having informed my parents, they suggested taking the loan with our bank, which we had a banking relationship with for over 30 years now. They were also offering an interest rate of 8.5%, which sounds good on paper but is practically useless as I found out later. But at the time I got swayed and started the loan process. By this time I had already collected and scanned all required documents, so I sent them over. I was hoping that our existing banking relationship would result in a smooth loan process and approval, but boy was I wrong. An important detail here is that I stay in Pune, but the branch local to my family is in Palghar. Logistics became a hassle. Sometimes the bank would accept virtual documents, other times they demanded a physical copy. Not to mention all the stamp papers and forms I needed to sign. This meant an unplanned trip home.

I also had to pay the down payment before, since the bank refused to sanction the loan until they saw a payment receipt for the same. It was about this time I regretted not taking the loan from the dealership. Probably would have gotten the car a week early. Signed everything, got it all approved, and came back. Surprisingly, the car had also arrived. And what a huge sigh of relief after analyzing the chassis number. Manufactured in March 2024. Could not ask for anything more. Scheduled a PDI for the next day. As expected, the car was not clean but I could still see all the panels (with a torch of course). The car had no fuel so driving it was out of the question. Carried the TeamBHP PDI checklist with me and everything was in order.

I also managed to get a good deal on the insurance. Opted for HDFC Ergo General Insurance with the following add-ons: Zero Depreciation, Engine and Gearbox Protection, Return to Invoice, Consumables Protection, and Roadside assistance. Was originally quoted Rs.74,000 for the same without any add-ons. They gave an Rs.20,000 discount to sweeten the deal. But I managed to get a quote from the HDFC Ergo website and they matched it. The final quote was Rs.46,279 with the add-ons.

One new thing I learned was that the instrument cluster cannot be navigated if fuel is below reserve level. Weird quirk but something to keep in mind.

I signed off on the car and asked the bank to disburse the loan amount. The dealer started the registration process almost immediately after they received the funds and a tentative delivery was set for 27th March 2024. I also confirmed some accessories. The regular stuff like mats, mud flaps, air freshener, and so on. I also opted for a body coating, engine coat, and 3M underbody coating. All totaled around Rs.18,500 after the discount.

The total breakdown is as follows :

Ex-showroom price - Rs.14,29,990
RTO - Rs.1,78,081
TCS at 1% - Rs.14,299
Insurance - Rs.46,278
Fastag - Rs.600
Extended Warranty - Rs.22,000
Accessories - Rs.18,500

Total OTR Price - Rs.17,09,749

Final Stage - Taking Delivery

Originally I planned to take delivery on 9th April, when we celebrate Gudi Padwa (Marathi New Year) as it is one of the most auspicious days for us. This was based on a timeline of 30 days to delivery from booking. However, the car came to the stockyard in a week which caused a lot of hurry in getting everything cleared. And I did not want to keep the car with the dealer any longer than necessary. So the date was changed to 28th March, which also happened to be an auspicious day for us. But since I had work and could not take a day off, I asked for the earliest possible delivery i.e. 11 am. However, my luck being the great opportunist it is, I was running approximately 30 minutes late. Which delayed everything as other deliveries were also planned in the showroom and since they had only 3 bays, I had to wait. This particular dealer has a unique delivery experience. Their location does not allow them to host grand reveals and rollouts so they do all the fanfare at the showroom along with document handover. Then they take you to the stockyard where they have 3 delivery bays and everything else needed to hand over the car.

While this would not be an issue as such, the entry-exit road to the stockyard is smaller than a 1BHK in Mumbai. How they deliver a Safari is a question I have been pondering ever since the PDI. Plus the delivery area, while airy has no lighting to speak of. So inspecting the car was a task and a half. But all looked good except for the missing neck pillows I ordered. They were out of stock so I was told they would be given later. Not a problem as it was an optional item for me anyway. Garland and all was fixed, number plates attached, and pooja done. All within about 30 minutes. Fantastic!! I checked the tire pressures, corrected them, started the car, checked all the displays and functions, took the customary photo with the key (small and large), and off I went.

I feel very fortunate to say that both my acquisitions have been painless deliveries and I was in and out within an hour and a half. Dropped off the SA back at the showroom since I had to go there anyway and headed straight for a fuel pump. After a nice helping of Power95 from HP, drove out, pulled over shortly, threw some air punches , and went back home after. Had to return to office so did not have much time to admire the new ride. That duty rested with the next couple of days, a long pleasant weekend.

Photos from delivery

Photo of the car just after arriving for delivery


First delivery photo


The 'actual' delivery photo


One for the memories


The Accessories Game

I had a wishlist created on Amazon after I booked the car. Had added some important and some want-to-have items. The ones I would need immediately were a good washer fluid concentrate, screen guards for the displays, and a protective layer for the door handle cavity. I wanted to get a separate tire inflator but since I could not use the bike and car simultaneously, I decided to stick with the same one I already owned. Also grabbed a key skin since I dislike key covers extensively and a custom keychain. I thought of getting a boost pack and jumper cables but with a new car, I could hold off on those for at least a year or two.

All of the above was applied to the car early next morning (couldn't sleep). Then my OCD kicked in and I removed all the plastic seat covers and celebratory ribbons. Then folded them up nicely and stowed them away in the boot.

If anyone has a link to a good OBD2 scanner tool that they have personally used, do send a private message. I would like to have one for contingencies.

Now some of you might be thinking, did he miss buying a dashcam? Well yes and no. I had pre-ordered a dashcam from a company called Woodman. Renowned for their infotainment units. It was dual-channel, FHD front and 720p rear at just Rs. 6500 and they claimed it was made in India. Well, I was bound to make one mistake and this was it. Immediately after it was delivered, I noticed that it was Made in China (not an issue but would like to have known beforehand) and the rear camera was a heavy, metal-bodied external unit designed to be mounted as the sole backup camera. The mount was very flimsy and I was sure it would get dislodged within a few weeks since it used screw hinges on either side for sturdiness. And the worst part, the company claimed that a hard-wire kit was free but failed to mention that it was the only power apparatus you would get. There was neither a 12V car charger nor a spare USB power cable. At this point, I am fuming. Thankfully one of my colleagues wanted this camera and didn't mind the hardwire-only solution. So I sold it to him and ordered a 70mai A500 Pro Plus, which I should've done in the first place. Also got an emergency seatbelt cutter-window hammer combo from AmazonBasics.

Preliminary driving impressions (500 km)

I had a chance to go up to Wai near Mahabaleshwar for a long drive and the below impressions are based on that

Likes

1. Build Quality - Doors shut with a nice thud and the cabin is cozy enough to make you feel safe yet not claustrophobic.
2. Interiors - Almost every control you need is an arm's length away. The touch points are mostly soft-touch materials and everything else is hard plastic. The seats are very comfy for me (I am over 6 feet tall) and everything is visible clearly. I can also sit behind myself comfortably
3. Features - The infotainment screen is nice and slick, as is the instrument cluster. Speakers are just fantastic and no other car comes close in audio quality. 360 camera is amazing.
4. Powertrain - Smooth, Torquey and Quick. Vibrations are controlled nicely and there is very little noise during normal driving. Road noise is also insulated properly and only concrete roads come through slightly.

Dislikes

1. Touch Controls - They are incorrectly executed and the lack of a separate display for the AC only exacerbates the issue
2. Powertrain - Turbo lag is evident since you are pulling about 150-200 kg more than the Altroz with the same power. Also the engine revs to just 5,500rpm at redline. Could have been higher. The gearbox complicates matters. It feels like a 5-speed DCT with overdrive gears on both ends. 1st is too short and 7th is lethargically long.
3. Drive Modes - I found Eco mode to be the best for city usage. City mode is great for making a quick getaway from a signal and on mild inclines. Sport mode is too twitchy (probably due to the first gear) and should be reserved only for overtaking.
4. Fit and Finish - It feels as if the QA/QC tested 95% of the car and signed off. While the remaining 5% does not affect the car's ability, it hampers the perception of the car and the brand. When the market evolves to a higher standard, this will become a huge issue.

An important detail to note here is that the cluster is actually 9.6 inches across and not 10.25 inches. This might be the reason most reviewers have complained about the font size. Having driven both the new Sonet and Nexon back to back, the font is the same size but the screen is not. It feels okay to me and is as crisp as the infotainment unit.

Overall a great place to spend long distances in. Is the performance more than adequate? Yes. Is it smooth? Yes. Will it feel like the Hyundai or Volkswagen twins? No. But at this price point and feature set, it doesn't have to.

Now comes the great question, "Kitna deti hai?". My SA and everyone else told me not to expect any magic until after the first service. They were somewhat true. Overall my first 500 km gave me a total of 12.1kmpl (City + Highway). Not great not bad. Let's see what the next 500 km has in store.

Overall, a solid 9/10 for the car. Deducting one point for the famous Tata niggles and service experience. Why only one point, you may ask? While it is not perfect, I have personally seen worse clown shows in brands regarded highly for service experience and fit-finish. Hence I will reserve final judgment until after the first paid service.

For a more detailed review, I would direct you all toward the official Team-BHP review of the Nexon facelift here (2023 Tata Nexon Facelift Review).

Are these problems or just niggles?

Let's discuss a few niggles I have observed

1. Glovebox - It takes a royal 53 seconds for the glovebox to fully open on its own. I timed it since it was starting to piss me off. Will have it checked during the first service.
   
2. Auto Headlamps - Quick to turn on, lazy to turn off. The 'ON' trigger is very low and sometimes the lights come on if you pass under a sufficiently large tree. On the other hand, the 'OFF' trigger is ridiculously high. you could be in direct sunlight but you are facing away from the sun, it takes a while for the lights to turn off. The problem? All the interior lights dim and you cannot see much at a glance since the dim light makes the white lettering illegible under moderate sunlight.
   
3. Monostable shifter - Needs the safety switch pressed to engage any drive mode. You can return to Neutral without it. But best advised to use the switch at all times. The issue is with the design. While it looks fantastic, one cannot grip it as confidently as a traditional gear stick. Which makes you lose pressure on the safety switch and the car then refuses to shift. Needs some time getting used to.
   
4. Steering switches - The toggles on the steering are a hassle for anyone who's driven anything else with steering controls. They have square edges, a smooth metallic finish, and a weak center spring. Which translates to accidentally pressing the button more often than toggling it. It is quite frustrating for someone with large hands like myself. Might get used to it, might not.
   
5. Auto up-down driver window - No idea who wrote this piece of code, but that person was probably angry at Tata. There is no definite pattern as to how it works. If I figure it out, Ill let you guys know.
   
6. Front passenger wiper - You cannot, and I mean you cannot lift the passenger side wiper without damaging the hood. Firstly, it is blocked by the hood when closed. If you somehow manage to pull it up, it rests on the edge with considerable pressure. I already have some scratches on there. Not sure if this is just with my car or a wider problem but it is outstandingly stupid. Will get it checked in the first service.

Aside from point 6, nothing on the list screams bad engineering. Can I live with all of these? Yes. However, the question most people ask is, do I have to? This I feel is a personal choice and most petrolheads choose to look away. But everyone else is fine and the sales numbers show it.

The Verdict

For me, the Nexon ticked most boxes right. I have established that it is not perfect at all and I presume that I will experience even more niggles over the next 4-5 years of ownership. Does that mean I regret my purchase? Absolutely not. I would still recommend anyone who is shopping within 18 lakhs OTR to have a look at this car. Maybe they like it, maybe they do not. But will it tick enough boxes for them to pull the trigger? Yes it will.

Which is exactly what the Nexon is made for. Jack of all trades, master of very few. Tata knows it has a long long road ahead of it to be anywhere near the likes of Hyundai, Volkswagen, and Suzuki. But they also know what Indians value at their core. Hence it should be no surprise when the Nexon sells as much as it does. The modern-day more car per car.

For anyone who has decided on the Nexon but is unsure whether to go ahead or not, just do it.

I am looking forward to many thousands of kilometers with Ellie and the journeys that will take me through them. If nothing else, it will definitely be invigorating

Photo Gallery

First wash!


Front of the car from the right


Rear of the car from the right


One with our Tiago


The side profile


Front of the car from the left


Social Media pose!

[RPRIME95]

The 1000 km Update

As one does after a big purchase, I went home. Spent some time with family and let them experience the car. Got the seal of approval although they hate the fact that all seatbelts are compulsory plus the seats have load sensors so no escaping from that.

I had to drive across all terrains to get home. Mumbai-Pune Expressway, Thane City roads, and the all-conquering NH48 stretch from Ghodbunder to Manor (recently renovated to accommodate 4x4's and dirt buggies) Chef's kiss to Tata suspension here. It was fantastic. Cruising was excellent as well although the cruise control seemed more aggressive. I might be wrong since this is my first time driving with Cruise on in any car, but it felt like it was fighting the set speed rather than relaxing into it. Also, the car is always 1-2 kph above the cruise speed, which is weird but nothing to cause concern. The journey back was less eventful with highway traffic being the worst offender.

Overall I got about 14.5 kmpl for my trip home and back, with the overall figure for 1000 km standing at about 13.2 kmpl. Not bad for a highly stressed 1.2 Turbo Petrol making 120 HP before the first service. Found some more little niggles

1. The driver side door looks bent outwards. Not enough to break the seal with the door frame but enough so that it doesn't sit flush with the rear door. Will have it checked during first service.
   
2. The monostable shifter is bugging me now. So it seems that to shift from Reverse to Drive you have to move a little fast. The electronics can register only one toggle at a time. So if the car registers Neutral when going from D to R or vice versa, you have to let the shifter return to center and do it again. So you know, stuff to learn. And if you somehow manage to shift into reverse with two notches of action, the cluster stays in Neutral and restarts.
   
3. The rear washer is not ready enough. The wiper spins 2-3 times before the water is sprayed. I tried pulsing the toggle switch to only spray the water first but it's highly inconsistent. The front is much faster and easier to work with.
   

Had some vinyl mods done and here is the final avatar (for now)

[RPRIME95]

Disclaimer - Everything past this point will be extremely controversial to many on this forum. These are my views and I request everyone who does not agree with them to be kind in their replies. Please do not launch personal attacks on me or anyone who agrees with what I am saying.

Hottest of Takes

I start this section by saying that I am quite worried reading some posts about Indian brands such as Tata and Mahindra on this forum. Criticism is one thing but some have just started spewing hate simply because these brands don't match up to their competition in the market. I understand that providing feedback is essential and we expect that feedback to be acted upon very soon. However, this is not the reality and as an IT industry professional, I have more than enough examples where feedback was heard but never worked on simply because the corporate priority was different.

And most of the time, this process of improvement is seldom advertised. Think how the human brain works. If someone tells you they have improved something in their work after the original work was done, the first question we ask is, "Why was this not done before?". Hence these rollouts are silent. When the media drives happened for the Nexon facelift, every reviewer was informed that these were pre-production units without final software and hardware. Very few mentioned this and the hate from some channels was astounding.

Now most people who say, "Oh but then Tata should have fixed it before starting deliveries" have never actually been responsible for shipping a newly engineered product to the masses. Today's world of social media has made scoops and leaks everyday things. The Nexon design leaked during a media shoot for their TVC somewhere in the north. This caused mass cancellations for the existing Nexon and people holding off bookings to wait for the new one. This eventually forced Tata to launch the car in a state where all things worked normally but any abnormal use could potentially cause issues. These were eventually solved with software updates. Yet people still want perfection.

One must remember that Mahindra only improved as much as it did when it started sales in highly developed markets. That pain of being harshly reviewed, dismissed as inadequate, and poor sales due to quality niggles is essential and Tata has yet to endure it. For anyone who uses the JLR excuse, transferring R&D between independent companies is extremely difficult, even under the same umbrella. Just look at the Harrier/Safari duo. They are Tata's flagship cars, built on a JLR platform, but would not stand a chance if they wore a JLR badge.

And software development is even harder to master. If giants like Apple, Google, and Microsoft cannot do it, Tata is much smaller and inexperienced to make quicker headway than the big 3. Anyone who works in IT would know. If Tata is developing the software itself, kudos to where they are now relative to their age. If they outsource it to TCS [Tata Consultancy Services] (highest possibility), the chances aren't much better given what I have heard about TCS and its work.

The biggest example I have is Hyundai not offering wireless Android Auto and Apple Carplay on its flagship variants. The reason. They are worried that your phone will drain out and the wireless charging cannot charge the phone quickly enough. Many will say the dealers are saying this to customers. In my experience, most dealership staff cannot make this up unless they are specifically informed to say those exact words.

All I am trying to convey is, that don't hate on Tata for their mistakes. People have a right to be angry at it and raise complaints. But remember that this process is very slow in reality and every carmaker did go through it at some point. International brands were battered by other countries and forced to improve long before they came to India. The only difference is that we never got to see it as much with Volkswagen/Skoda, Hyundai/Kia, Ford, etc as we did with Tata, Mahindra, and for a while, Maruti.

So give Tata and Mahindra some space to improve. They are already outperforming International brands with their focus on passenger safety. Given time, they will excel at everything else as well.

[Aditya]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[blogslogger]

Originally Posted by RPRIME95

Hottest of Takes

Criticism is one thing but some have just started spewing hate simply because these brands don't match up to their competition in the market. I understand that providing feedback is essential and we expect that feedback to be acted upon very soon. However, this is not the reality and as an IT industry professional, I have more than enough examples where feedback was heard but never worked on simply because the corporate priority was different.

The biggest example I have is Hyundai not offering wireless Android Auto and Apple Carplay on its flagship variants. The reason. They are worried that your phone will drain out and the wireless charging cannot charge the phone quickly enough. Many will say the dealers are saying this to customers. In my experience, most dealership staff cannot make this up unless they are specifically informed to say those exact words.

I really do think everyone here wants Tata and Mahindra to rock the sales charts. There is really no one who simply dismisses them. The problem is Tata and to a lesser extent, Mahindra refuse to learn from their mistakes.

Tata is in the passenger vehicle business since 1999 and they really did not make much progress in the service department. Even today, tata service centers appear more like FNG's rather than a professional setup. I understand mechanics inherently get dirty, but what about the sales advisors? They seem unkempt as well.
This would all be forgiven if the prices were lower than the competitors but they are higher than the competition. So i would say they are warranted to be held to a higher standard.

Coming to the feature set, the problem is with half baked implementations. They are worse than no features at all. And most of the time, they are critical features such as shifter failures or speed sensor issues.

Hyundai's reasoning might be nonsense, but they never promised in the first place. Tata on the other hand has promised Lane Keep Assist and is yet to deliver. And when someone spends 15+ Lakhs, they are right to expect perfection.

[TheStoryweaver]

Originally Posted by RPRIME95

[b][u]. If they outsource it to TCS [Tata Consultancy Services] (highest possibility), the chances aren't much better given what I have heard about TCS and its work.

As per my knowledge, the Software development is done by Tata technologies. Tata group recently listed it on the exchange. Tata motors has majority stake in it.

[RPRIME95]

Originally Posted by blogslogger

The problem is Tata and to a lesser extent, Mahindra refuse to learn from their mistakes.

They learn but it is a painfully slow process. Typical Indian Conglomerate behaviour.

Originally Posted by blogslogger

Tata is in the passenger vehicle business since 1999 and they really did not make much progress in the service department.

Until 2017, nobody bought Tata's enmasse for them to even have an aftersales issue. Couple this with fewer good ASCs than Maruti, Hyundai and you get your service problems elevated to another level.

Originally Posted by blogslogger

This would all be forgiven if the prices were lower than the competitors but they are higher than the competition. So i would say they are warranted to be held to a higher standard.

IMO this is a wrong approach to have. Everyone needs to be held to the highest standard regardless of price.

Originally Posted by blogslogger

Coming to the feature set, the problem is with half baked implementations. They are worse than no features at all. And most of the time, they are critical features such as shifter failures or speed sensor issues.

As I mentioned, considering the software business in India, we are lucky to even have the features out

Originally Posted by blogslogger

Hyundai's reasoning might be nonsense, but they never promised in the first place. Tata on the other hand has promised Lane Keep Assist and is yet to deliver. And when someone spends 15+ Lakhs, they are right to expect perfection.

Never buy anything on a promise. Learned that the hard way. What you buy is often what you get. Big corporations have zero integrity in keeping promises.

As for the price, the band has moved. What used to be the luxury market is now the compact SUV market. Our expectations have to change. I cannot expect perfection unless I am paying over 50 Lakhs simply because it is not possible.


All in all, expectations aside, if any company wants to get something done and they can, they will get it done. Issue with Tata is most of the times, they can't get it done and the other times they don't want to

[RPRIME95]

Originally Posted by TheStoryweaver

As per my knowledge, the Software development is done by Tata technologies. Tata group recently listed it on the exchange. Tata motors has majority stake in it.

Then the software is at a much higher level for the company's age.
Started in 1994 and only rose to prominence post 2005. For them to develop and release a new UI within 3 years of the Altroz release is commendable.

Software stability is still touch and go. Yesterday my 360 camera system stopped working. Parked the car for about an hour and it was back

[revsperminute]

Originally Posted by RPRIME95

[*] Front passenger wiper - You cannot, and I mean you cannot lift the passenger side wiper without damaging the hood. Firstly, it is blocked by the hood when closed. If you somehow manage to pull it up, it rests on the edge with considerable pressure. I already have some scratches on there. Not sure if this is just with my car or a wider problem but it is outstandingly stupid. Will get it checked in the first service.

Most European cars have their wipers fitted in this way and come with a wiper service position option that allows you to lift the wiper blades off the windscreen. Take a look at the owner’s manual and I’m sure it will have instructions for the same.

[Col Mehta]

First of all - heartiest congratulations on your new car! Looks beautiful in that blue shade. And I loved the way you documented your experience with the car so far. And I really admire your unbiased feedback which many, including some members of this esteemed forum, dont do too often and tend to be overly defensive of their favorite brand or model.

I'm, however, not yet certain if I agree with everything you opinioned about Tata as a brand. I think Tata has a lot to learn and improve, particularly their quality control. But having said that, it's undeniable that Tata has made remarkable progress, particularly in prioritizing safety. The fact that Tata is now competing with Hyundai for the second position is a testament to their achievements, and they certainly deserve recognition for that.

Will keep an eye on your future ownership experiences and wish you many happy and safe miles with your car .

[DicKy]

Congratulations on the new car and that is one sweet colour.

If you don't mind could share some pics of the interiors too.

Originally Posted by RPRIME95

[*] Auto up-down driver window - No idea who wrote this piece of code, but that person was probably angry at Tata. There is no definite pattern as to how it works. If I figure it out, Ill let you guys know.
[*] Front passenger wiper - You cannot, and I mean you cannot lift the passenger side wiper without damaging the hood. Firstly, it is blocked by the hood when closed. If you somehow manage to pull it up, it rests on the edge with considerable pressure.

If it is anything like the Harrier, then it is by design for the auto up/down window I guess. Most cars have a two step button action where the harder press activates auto feature. But in the Harrier one has to hold down the button for ~2 seconds for the auto feature to activate, by the time the window would already be halfway. Why bother giving auto up/down feature at all.

The wiper seems to be the European style where one has to open the bonnet (service position) to lift the wipers.

Originally Posted by RPRIME95

[b]
....I start this section by saying that I am quite worried reading some posts about Indian brands such as Tata and Mahindra on this forum......One must remember that Mahindra only improved as much as it did when it started sales in highly developed markets. That pain of being harshly reviewed, dismissed as inadequate, and poor sales due to quality niggles is essential and Tata has yet to endure it......So give Tata and Mahindra some space to improve. They are already outperforming International brands with their focus on passenger safety. Given time, they will excel at everything else as well.

Please dont misunderstand online banter for hate or vitriol. You yourself had said that harsh reviews in highly developed markets forced Mahindra to improve, so why not us in India be harsh on the domestic companies to improve QC. Speaking of which, TATA was selling in the international market at a time when Mahindra couldn't even make a vehicle with a proper hardtop. The 2nd gen Indica (Vista) was being sold in international markets when Mahindra hadn't even developed their first monocoque vehicle. So TATA had way more time to improve. This is not the Indica era anymore for us to be lenient. They really need a structural/cultural change. Thought they would improve with the increased sales and profits, but alas they are chasing after bling now. The issues with the monostable shifter, touch controls usage and steering wheel button tactile feel are all stuff they could have avoided if they went for proper improvements than putting bling features after bling features. Nothing wrong with feel good features, but they should be done after much testing so that they really are feel good features than a source of pain.

[RPRIME95]

Originally Posted by DicKy

Congratulations on the new car and that is one sweet colour.
If you don't mind could share some pics of the interiors too.

The wiper seems to be the European style where one has to open the bonnet (service position) to lift the wipers.

Will share some Interior pictures sure

For the wipers, you cannot open them even after lifting the bonnet. They have to be stopped mid operation and then opened. I even checked the manual for any specific instruction or way to do it but no luck there.

[robincsamuel]

Congratulations! Wishing you many miles of happiness.

Originally Posted by RPRIME95

Auto up-down driver window - No idea who wrote this piece of code, but that person was probably angry at Tata. There is no definite pattern as to how it works. If I figure it out, Ill let you guys know.

Can you try pushing/pulling it for a while before leaving, as if the car thinks you intend to push it completely up/down. We have a Nexon facelift in the family and I got really curious about this issue. I was able to do it consistently after a point; now it’s more like my fingers know how to do it but I’m still unsure!

[ByKaizen]

Let us don't go into their engine and performance, panel gaps/fit & finish, sharp plastic edges in door pockets which can cause scratches on hands, rubber cladding coming off from body due to poor glue/sealant, bonnet not properly getting locked every time due to slight alignment miss in bonnet lock, front passenger side leg room having some open mechanical box - Tata cannot fix these things after being in industry for so long?

I purchased a Tata Tiago happily 2 years back and the quality made me sell it in 3 months with a considerable financial loss, I was not against Tata but now I cannot support with all these lethargic QC they have in place.

And the reason for my sale is not any of the above reasons, the major reason is due to the engine, power delivery and transmission quality, since I could not ADJUST-AND-LIVE with Tata I had to sell.

[RPRIME95]

Originally Posted by Col Mehta

I'm, however, not yet certain if I agree with everything you opinioned about Tata as a brand. I think Tata has a lot to learn and improve, particularly their quality control. But having said that, it's undeniable that Tata has made remarkable progress, particularly in prioritizing safety. The fact that Tata is now competing with Hyundai for the second position is a testament to their achievements, and they certainly deserve recognition for that.

I completely agree that they have to fix thier quality control. I hope that was clear in my words. If not, I am terribly sorry. I am just being realistic in my expectation of how quickly it will be fixed. We would all like to have this go away within the next year, but it is highly unlikely.