[cefiljoseph]

"Where curiosity meets forbidden fruit, the heart wrestles between the desire for pleasure and the fear of consequences."

Most of us on this forum would agree that Germans stand at the top of the car food-chain. It's no news but why is it so? German engineers over the last century have near perfected the art turning engineering into enthusiastic little toys for the car loving child that lives within us. This little child amongst all of us irrespective of our current age loves to be coddled in the laps of luxury, loves to feel safe like we were with our parents and loves to be have a blast on the open roads without worrying about fuel economy as if money can just be printed like that. Umm that's kind of what the governments do these days oops. Well, that's a story for another day

Everyone in the community agrees that these cars are relatively harder to take care of. A major component going wrong or a accident outside the seven year zero-depreciation insurance period would be enough for an owner to swear one of these brands out for their life. Even more so at this vintage of fifteen years it's would painstakingly hard to keep one running if not impossible. Or is it?

Through this thread, I wanted to share the continuing journey of how we bought and are owning a Mercedes W211 E280 CDI E-Klasse after yearning for a German car for almost a decade. I don't just want to talk about it with an enthusiast lens but also through socioeconomic and psychological perspectives which are discussed or even observed far lesser in comparison.

Might not have been the easiest ownership. Just like with any good things in life it comes at a price

In search of a star.

[cefiljoseph]

Are car enthusiasts born or created?

Spoiler alert: It's both.

I was in the middle of a an entrepreneurship session with one of the pioneers, Mark Searle from Berkely University. He was talking about the trainings he does to inculcate leadership skills in individuals and how powerful the skill was. One curious student asked Mark, "Aren't people born as leaders and is it something really that can be coached?" Mark graciously answered with a counter example of athletes. Are the best athletes born or coached? It's both plus their environment, privilege they hold in the society, genetics all play significant roles in it.

In my humble opinion, this is wonderful analogy to think about car enthusiasm as well. Most people have an innate love for cars. Some people get it genetically, some have the conducive condition and financially sounds families which fuel this passion, some have good environments where they are around people who loved and talks about cars. However, there are levels to this. Someone might just momentarily observe a car passing by and think, "that's a good car" and someone else might build their entire lives around cars. i.e., own a garage to fix cars, make content around cars, be in business of selling and buying cars, the world is your canvas.

I too had a story of getting into cars very young. I have always been fascinated by the idea of cars. I feel it's the humanish design that connects us with cars in some sense. Like we have two hands and two legs, cars too have two front wheels and two rear wheels. There is an heart that beats it a.k.a the engine(motors too). A network of wires like our nervous systems and so on. Just like with humans when all of these things come in unison it gives the effect of creating something that's greater than the sum of all parts. Germans have a word for this called Gestalt. Perhaps the German engineers understand this and it's no coincidence that they end up making the best cars out there.

I kind of knew this from a very young age that I really wanted one at home. I was maybe six or seven when I learned that BMW makes really fast cars. At the time going fast was the only parameter I looked for when evaluating a car. Oh, it still is. Just that I tweaked the definition of "fast" from speed to the sensation of speed which is what we experience

Anyways going back to my six year old self, I had been a agnostic child which isn't a good place to be when your mother is a hardcore believer. It's always like this isn't it?

Challenging my mother about god not existing was my sport then. At some point she had told me that god gives us the things we ask for. To prove her wrong, I asked her that if I pray for a BMW will god give me one? Being low-key done with me and as a last resort to get me to pray she told yes god will give you a BMW if you pray for it sincerely.

I took this seriously and started praying everyday mostly loudly saying "please give a BMW in our home" hehe

Till day not sure if it was the power of manifestation of the magic of god himself , a few years of me praying continuously, when I turned ten, my father in fact did trade the Innova we had then for an E90 320d. It was truly an on top of the world feeling to have it.



Forget being in it, even being around the car filled me with pride and joy



Yup, I too now cringe at the way my younger self dressed.

[cefiljoseph]

BMW shenanigans and realignment

Happiness doesn't last long especially when you have a BMW
Wasn't any different for us, maybe god wanted to teach me a lesson for question it's existence, he gave us this e-series bimmer. Don't get me wrong it was exceptionally engaging to be in it and feel the peppy acceleration and engagement even as a passenger at least for me when my father drove it around.
However, for better or worse, we felt the sour of this lemon early into the ownership. There were some weird rattles and issues that happened within the warranty period which didn't really inspire confidence to keep it longer. The fact that the Kochi dealer then, Platino Classic were downright frauds and horrible to deal with (Read - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...o-classic.html (BMW terminates dealer agreement with Platino Classic)) made this decision even more easier. Immediately after the warranty period, baby bimmer was gone. Having learned our German car lesson, we played it safe and got a good 'ol Fortuner.

Back, then I did't realise the nuances of warranty or anything. I thought my dad was doing the stupidest thing when I saw him exchanging a 3er for a glorified Toyota pickup. However, ten years later taking the Fortuner for it's service and seeing the advisor struggling to cross ten grands for it, I couldn't have been more wrong. Seeing the mighty Fortuner still looking and driving like it's almost new made me realise that German cars shine during the warranty period while the Japanese shine once it's out of it.

All that said and done, as much as I loved and appreciated the Fortuner, there is no denying that a German car leaving creates a void that only another German can fill.

[cefiljoseph]

"Longing is the bridge between the present and the someday we dream of"

Years went by, while the world changed, our love for cars remained the same. Having a German was still the dream. My mother did buy a boring Dzire sometime in between but that didn't change anything. I moved out of my home to Delhi for my undergrad at Ashoka. However, a semester and half into my dream college experience, pandemic changed our lives in way we couldn't imagine and I was back at home. With the newer disposable incomes and changing economies and personal priorities, we started talking (well me mostly nudging my family ) about getting a German during this period. Seeing the value and the stigma going away in the used car segment we had decided that it had to be a used German. It wasn't a serious search or anything but we did visit some of the large used-car dealers to scout for one semi-seriosuly.

Soon the pandemic situation subsided, I returned to college in my final semester and landed a job in Mumbai. That's when Coco came into life (Read - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...ml#post5560891 (Life with a 9th Generation Toyota Corolla (E120) | Ownership Review | Coco's Adventures))

Coco in some sense was the precursor to get W211. Getting her inspired confidence in pre-owned cars and we were ready for a bigger German bet

[cefiljoseph]

As you mature as a car enthusiast you incline more towards a Mercedes.

I know it's a big claim to say that Mercedes is the best brand especially on an automotive forum where all kinds of people exist. Yet, I stand by my words and let me try to convince you too to go for a used Mercedes

I was always a horses guy - the best car in my eyes would be the one that went the fastest and that was it. However, the more I started going deep into forums and research, I realised that Mercs were more reliable since we were looking at cars in the 10-15 lakhs budget. Moreover, we didn't want a German for the sake of the brand but for the car itself. So, we didn't want it to be just another 4-pot sedan. We were strictly looking for something special ideally a V6 or a V8.

Started by compared the Bimmers and Mercs from the same era. E60 v/s W211, E90 v/s W204 and E65 v/s W221. Time and again, realised that Mercedes was simply ahead in terms of the engineering, design and manufacturing. Someone might say that the bimmer counterpart is more athletic and while that is true, it is not the point of a Mercedes. It's simply to to glide over tarmac which they excel in. It's this kind of honesty to the purpose while cutting out the noise on focusing on other aspects like performance that got me hoooked on to it. However, this comes with Caveats. It's only for specific eras where this is valid. Moreover, it's particularly true for turbodiesel Mercs. As a counterexample say if the I was looking at something after 2013/14, I would gravitate more towards the equivalent bimmer unless of course it's the S-Class which captures the Mercedes persona the best.

Honesty to it's ethos - This is something that's always beautiful whether it's done by a car manufacturer or a human. When you are focused at a goal and in the case with Mercedes to offer the best luxury and quality build as it's first priority, it becomes an art piece on wheels.

Heritage and Tradition - Mercedes literally invented the car with the Patent Wagen. They survived in the industry for more than a century which is not just exceptional by car manufacturer standards but also by any organisation standards. This gives them a really good understanding of making cars especially when it comes to ergonomics and design. The rear parking sensors that appears in the Rear view mirror one brilliant execution of this. The list doesn't end there. The headrests that fall down on the touch of a button, REST option on the AC which directs the hot air from the engine to prevent condensation are all clever touches that comes with expertise that is only unique to a Merc. To add to this, the precise placement of hand rests on the door pads and the the sun visor that extends when blocking the sun are all features that add intangible value but never come on a spec sheet. These are things we really appreciate over time. I'm sure that there are many more features that I'm yet to discover in these stars that is yet to reveal it's marvel going forward.

Engineering, built and design quality - Mercedes spends massive amounts for R&D and it's observed in the innovations they make and the superior nature of their cars. The built quality is also commendable. This is why it is often called as indestructible tanks. Well, almost.

On the whole, a V6 or a V8 Mercedes E-class/S-class respectively seemed like the perfect fit for our use case and requirements.

This is by no means to say other manufacturers are not great, it's just that it's a matter of fit and a true blooded star seemed to be the perfect fit in our case.

Now we get into the harder part - addressing the challenges, deciding on the exact model and finding a decent example.

Scale model exhibition at LandMark Thane. Living in Hiranandani Estate, they were our beloved friendly neighbourhood Mercedes Benz dealer. Quick to answer any queries and always supported in our ownership as you will be reading ahead.

[cefiljoseph]

Money don't jiggle jiggle, it folds.

Right of the bat when the conversation comes up about getting an older Merc, everyone straight up jumps to the conclusion that it's an endless money pit and something only a madman can do.

There is some degree of truth and sincerity to this advice. It's no surprise that many cars are abandoned on roads. It usually happens at a point where the cost of saving the car is more than it's current value. However, there is more to it.







Let me unpack this. Take the most extreme example of W220/W221 S-Klasse. These cars can be had for as low as 2-3 lakhs. However, the cost of repair including the Airmatic, Air Conditioning systems, Steering Rack, Electricals etc might cost maybe 10-20 percent of the cars original price. In the case of a W220/W221, this amounts to 10-20 lakhs. So why would anyone in their right minds be willing to shell out this kind of money when the car's value itself is peanuts. One word - experience. If you need to get the same experience today of the W220/W221 S-Klasse, there is no other way but to spend 2-3 crores to get the latest W223 S-Klasse. This perspective is what most people lakh in my opinion. Therefore, in my opinion, while the money might seem high in absolute terms and might not be justifiable for everyone to spend, in my humble opinion it's moeny that's well spent.

This isn't just theory. Many people do in fact realise this and keep their stars shining as bright as possible.





In a world where a Jeep compass costs 30 big ones, getting a big mighty S for the same is a steal. It's definitely not a bad place to be.

Does it comes with risks? Of course it does. Does it mean you don't do things that involve risks? Anything worth doing rarely comes without risks. Excellence doesn't come from avoiding risks rather by learning how to manage it. In this case, what it means would be instead of a Creta or a Compass you now get to have a V6 or a V8 Mercedes beauty.

I also think it's an ego risk that you have to take. I have seen two kinds of approached people have when they hear about us getting a W211. The first approach is trying to learn more about the ownership so that they can someday potentially get one. This is a growth attitude that benefits everyone. I really appreciate this and I'm willing to help anyone out there with whatever little information and experience I hold. There is a second approach that is horrible - to simply complain about anything and everything once they know we got a W211. Oftentimes, I have noticed that these comments comes from people who have absolutely no idea about these cars and just want to add on to the negativity. They are also not even willing to hear about anything and appear to be out of reform. These are the people who say things like, it will be scrapped after 15 years or this will always give you troubles and stuff. Now, I get there are some merits to this but it's not things which aren't addressable. You can pay the green tax get additional five years, do preventative maintenance to keep the car fresh again and so on. Complaining does no good. Thinking about solutions is what moves us forward and improves life.

[cefiljoseph]

Too many stars in the Galaxy

Now that it was decided that we were getting a full-sized star, we started hunting for models more seriously and comparing the models with each other.

S500 - this was the first car we seriously considered. We specifically only wanted the V8 since we would be shelling a lot on it, might as well be a V8 and enjoy the endless torque. We saw some examples in Mumabi but on further checks found one or the other issue with them. Like with all other places, dealers tried to do horrible things. Finding a good example became a challenge and we then decided to not splurge for the S and look for a more reasonable E.

Then I moved the conversation towards getting an even older model with lesser complications yet with the complete persona of a star. W123 is what I'm talking about. Reliable, timeless and relatively easy to keep running. However, the current giving rates of 7-8 wasn't cool in my opinion but still it would be a financially terrible things to do since it holds value. I and my dad test drove some examples. We concluded that when there is a W211 and W212 going for the same price, it doesn't make sense to get this when those cars are much more fun and simply put better. We really didn't want to give into any artifical hype that was created around these cars. Maybe if it were 2-3 lakhs a W123 would have been fine.

So, after moving from a modern star to a classic star, we once again decided to look at more modern models - W211 and W212. However, like we earlier decided, only the V6 versions would be considered.

I drove some W212s but didn't really connect with the car. Don't get me wrong, it was a good car but it just didn't speak to me.

Then I went and drove the W211 and it was instant love. We saw some cars in Thrissur, Kerala where we are from and in Mumbai where we were both working at the time.

First we saw the car in Thrissur. It looked decent so we decided to take it for an inspection at Infinity Autodynamik which is a competent independent shop there. They diagnosed it with multiple issues and faults and told us to pass it.

Then I saw another car in Mumbai which was a final year special edition model. it seemed like the perfect and best W211 to have. However, this car too seemed fine but when I sent it for inspection, they found it to be in poor condition.

Then I found another example in Mumbai which seemed to be in good condition. My dad too came up with a lead that he had a colleague who owned a W211 and was ready to part with. On hearing the name of the owner I realised that both of us had found the same person. Maybe it was sign. We saw the car, went through service records, checked it and sealed the deal. We had agreed on some work that needed to be carried out before handing over the car to us to which he obliged. We closed the deal for 4.25. We also had a thumb rule that we would need 10-20 percent of the original cost of the car saved for immediate maintenance and upkeep. For the W211 this amounted to 5-10 lakhs.

Bringing home the best star for Christmas

[cefiljoseph]

More on the W211


Source - Mercedes Museum

I have always considered the E-Klasse to be a lovely all-rounder car. It's beautiful, dynamically sorted, safe, well built and engineered, fast, comfortable and luxurious among other things.

W211 is in my opinion one of the best generations if not the best for it offers modernity yet just the right amount. It is also I feel at a stage where it's just an old used car but slowly moving towards the classics. One day I wouldn't be shocked to see good examples selling for much higher.

Where it shines

• Comfort - Supremealy comfortable only second to Airmatic Stars. The floaty feel with safe dynamics make the experience special.
  
• Brand recognition - Benz is in most people's eyes the best car brand. Chances are someone older might not know about Porsche or Ferrari but they definitely knows that a Benz is a legit statement. W211 exemplifies this een more so since it was the emblematic Benz of the time.
  
• Cruising - Having a turbodiesel Benz means you have torque forever and the speed just keeps picking particualry when driving on the open roads. OM642 V6 is a lovely heart for the car.
  
• Elegance - It just looks beautiful. Period. Even after having a W211, when I see a W211 on the roads, I just automatically stop to admire it's beauty. Perhaps liek the quote says, a true artist doesn't look at things with ownership but rather with curiosity.
  
• Reliable - It is a reasonably well built car with good reliability which is why many examples are still on the road.

Where is doesn't shine

• Support - While there is decent support, the official workshops would rip you off if you visit them for anything other than a periodic service.
  
• Part costs - Like with any German car, the parts are expensive and might take time to source. This can result in huge downtimes.
  
• Not athletic - in the pursuit to make the car as comfortable as possible, it behaves like a boat in corners.
  
• 7G-Tronic - It's not ZF-8 Speed and doesn't want to be one. A slow tranny that offers linear pickup and that's about it.
  
• Risks - being old the worry of a transmission failure or an accident is scary. We try to do all preventive maintenance like you will see below. Nonetheless, it's still a worry. Moreover, I get paranoid when leaving it parked in an open location about someone vandalising the car or even worse stealing the hood ornament which is very common. In fact, someone actully did steal this once

On the whole, these are things that come as a package and we definitely knew what we were getting into. It's a lovely machine and the 2 billion dollars Mercedes spent on developing it has definitely been put into good use as far as I can see. Sometimes I think about a replacement car for W211 and I really can't think of any until I can spent a crore.

Apparently it was illegal to look this good

[cefiljoseph]

120K Service at Wagenwerkz by Jatin

Once we got the car, we wanted to do any preventative works to protect from any unwanted issues later. Despite Landmark being next door, we couldn't afford to give it there.

The example we got was serviced at Mercedes Authorised Workshops for the first 10 years and later were maintained by competent shops in Mumbai. Therefore, there wasn't anything other from expected stuff that came up. However, being a 15 year old Mercedes, at this age some components would need to be replaced which would costs a small fortune. However, it is supremely important to do it the right way using genuine parts rather than taking out the easy way using some Jugaad. We took the responsibility to fix everything using factory procedures and parts since we intended to keep the car long term. After looking at some options, we were finally recommended Wagenwerkz by Jatin by Raymond Patel. Those on instagram might recognise him by his handle - rayostorations. Jatin correctly diagnosed all the issues and works to be done so that the car drives like it should.

We first decided to sort it out mechanically and then only once it's fully fixed get the minor dents and scratches fixed. There was a laundry list of items to be fixed along with the 120k oil service with transmission service and redo of front seats and steering wheel.

The list of things done were as follows

• 120k oil and filer changed
• Automatic Transmission oil and filter changed.
• Engine and Gearbox Mounts replaced
• Diesel pipes replaced
• Wiper Blades replaced
• Brake Oil changed
• Power Steering Oil changed
• Front seat and steering wheel leather redo
• Left Mirror Open mechanism wasn't working, this was fixed
• Coolant and washer sensor fixed
• Glow plugs and control module replaced
• Three-step polishing done

It costed a total of 2.55 lakhs in total.

The service was done well and the car was in much better condition post the service. However, two things went wrong during the service. First, the steering rack rebuild didn't hold up after a few thousand kilometres. This doesn’t necessarily point to any incompetence of WagenWerkz since I have realised that rebuilding stuff in German cars don’t hold up well due to the low tolerance of such parts. I told Jatin about the steering rack not holding up and he offered to get it fixed for free. However, since the car was in Kerala at M Star, this wasn’t feasible. During a later stage of the service at M Star they also flagged to me that the automatic transmission oil was incorrectly changed. Again, since the car was already under service at M star in Kerala, I assumed it was an honest mistake and had not flagged this to Jatin and decided to do the fluid flush anyways.

Roadtrip from Mumbai to Kerala has been documented here - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...-cdi-w211.html (Dieselhead Dream: Mumbai to Kerala in a Mercedes E280 CDI (W211))

Sharing some pictures from Wagenwerkz after the 120k service and other works.











For those curious on where the money was spent, find the breakdown attached below.

120K Invoice.pdf

Furthermore, there was some other stuff that was needed to be done which we decided to sort out later once we were in Kerala.

[cefiljoseph]

How far we have come
Bringing home a Benz is truly special especially the first one. Even more so when it's a dream that has been there for a long time. It was a huge dream for me and my father to have a star at home and it is wonderful to see him finally get one.



As a Mercedes lover, I too feel really grateful for having a star at home. From spending time appreciating every Mercedes I see, to having conversations with friends around it, attending scale model exhibitions and car rallies, I feel this is good place to pause and reflect over the journey.

Mercedes as a brand fascinates me. Not for it's snob value(well, maybe a bit) but for it's engineering and innovation. They have survived through wars, market changes, recessions, changing laws and regulations, technological shifts, cultural changes, pandemics and what not. It's the fact that they value their heritage and support literally any car they have made what I really appreciate among them. Of course, all of this would be done for a price but it's a business they run and not a charity. After all we are in a capitalist world we like or not. On the good side, this means there are many opportunities we have to achieve anything we want to.



I also find it amusing to see the love this brand and car receives. Despite being an old car which costs less than the current Alto, it still garners attention and respect everywhere it goes to. In hotels, it gets parked in the front, when it arrives in airpots for pickups you feel happy and elevated. While it's maybe expensive to keep, we do get the rewards for the same in multifold. This Mercedes magic is truly amazing.

[cefiljoseph]

Reality check and talking numbers

In the euphoria of enjoying our life with W211, we almost forgot about the the remainder of the preventative works that needed to be done. Unnecessary sounds coming from the car always reminds you this.

After some research, we found that M star motors in Kochi was THE place to be trusted with your star. They know what they are doing and gives the best service in par with the authorised workshop if not better.

We had some things to be sorted urgently. The radiator being over fifteen years had given up. The steering rack rebuilt didn't hold up. Upon further research, I came to know that in German cars, the tolerances being very low, rebuild don't often work well so decided to replace it which was expensive. Balancing rod had to be replaced which was a remark that Jatin gave too.

We decided to get all of this done along with any minor things that came up.

W211 getting pampered at M Star Motors, Kochi run by Mr. Majo, a Mercedes veteran.





We were unable to source a new steering rack but M star found a used steering rack in really good condition. This saved significant cost. I too tried checking multiple other sources to get the parts for cheaper using the part numbers. Somnath from LandMark Thane was really helpful in giving me the required part numbers. However, in the end we saw that M star had much better pricing so decided to go with them. The only problem was that it took a lot of time for me to check the prices and part numbers hence the downtimes were really high this time. Having trusty Japs at home solved this but maybe not a good idea to only have a German car at home I guess.

As they say, behind every successful German car ownership is a reliable Toyota.


All the works were completed at M Star which totalled to 2.6 lakhs. All of this should keep the car good for the coming 5-8 years. With this all the mechanicals were largely sorted. In the future, a few things like the rear suspensions, air intake pipes and oil cooler and manifolds will need to be changed as we understand from remarks after the service. However, it's too soon to think about it now.

Reference - MH 06 AN 7020 24082023.pdf

With that, lets talk numbers which many would be curious to know. I hope that sharing these helps many readers who wants to own a star someday to make an informed decision and to prepare both financially and emotionally for it. It's truly a rewarding jounrey to be in.



Having a sorted V6 W211 E280 CDI for under ten big ones isn't really a bad deal in my opinion. Some might agree and some might disagree to this. However, for someone without the means or mind to shell out north of a crore for it's current counterpart, a W211 is arguable the best way to have a shining at your home. The journey continues with W211 and I find it to be rewarding. As I have now moved to Mohali to pursue a Master's programme, I ruminate the wonderful memories I had with Coco and W211. Can't wait to get back to them

Old or new, a star always shines


If you did read till here, I'm really grateful for your time and I hope I could add some value to your life. Wishing everyone all the best and happy miles ahead!!

[Aditya]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[androdev]

@cefiljoseph, that's the most wholesome review I have read in recent times. W211 is a beautiful car and carries the elegance of the brand in a way very few models do.

Congratulations to your parents because whatever money they'd spent on your education was worth it - you write good stuff :-) I wasn't expecting to read every word of such a long review but I did end up doing exactly the same. It was a thoroughly enjoyable read and I can relate to so many things in your post even without the fact that I own a decade old W221. Wish you many more years of happy ownership!

[GTO]

Thanks for sharing this review of your gorgeous car! Going to the top of our homepage today.

Owning an old German car is not everyone's cup of tea. But if you have the knowledge & resources, it is an extremely rewarding experience. I appreciate how you have gotten all the necessary maintenance work done, without cutting corners. I follow the same approach with my 10-year old 530d which is running in top shape. All of these cars require TLC (tender loving care) as they age. Indulge them, and they'll give you an extremely satisfying driving & ownership experience. As you are finding out too. Even if they cost 1 - 2 lakhs every year in upkeep (my 530d does), it's still luxury car ownership for Maruti - Hyundai - Kia money. What's important is you invest in a fundamentally sorted car that is otherwise reliable. E.g. a 15-year old W211 is a better project car than a W220 S-Class, or a 2006 Range Rover.

Love the E280 CDI from the time I drove it. Creamy 6-cylinder engine & timeless styling. A well-maintained W211 turns heads even today.

Wishing you many fun road-trips with your Benz .

[vattyboy]

Great Review. You have very good writing skills.

W211 E class is such a beauty. Back in 2012-13 whenever I saw it, I always admired its beauty. In my eyes, it was the most beautiful car in the Mercedes lineup.

Kudos to you for steering away from the herd mentality and buying a beautiful E class in ~ 10 lakhs.

A Mercedes is A Mercedes, you will get more respect on the Roads in comparison to mass-market brands which cost 2x or 3x more than it.