[SushilBajpai]

The ownership thread!

I begin this thread with what I like and, what I don't - in Hilux. I have barely driven it 250 kilometers. I intend to edit and update this post with time to make it more meaningful.

What I like

• Hilux definitely appears very rugged. Rugged is not same as strong. My Skoda Yeti would have similar (if not more) strength, but might not be as rugged. In short Hilux exhibits a strong build quality and durable construction.
  
• The Hilux doesn't care about speed breakers or potholes, and after sometime neither do I.
  
• The front row seats are comfortable with generous support. Cabin is spacious. All knobs, switches and controls are easily accessible.
  
• Pretty good "cargo bed", making it my potential Toyota 207.
  
• Toyota dependability and reliability.
  
• Great view of the road ahead and high seating. This is especially good for me at night as I do not get as blinded by the headlights of the oncoming traffic, as much as, in a car with lower seating.
  
• Ability to install a tow hook. I need this capability to be able to tow my sailplane trailer.
  
• Reasonable amount of safety features, like seven airbags!

What I don’t like

It is easy to make a long list of what I do not like, when one migrates to a new car. This is especially true for people who have been spoiled by living with Skoda Yeti as their go-to vehicle for the last 13 years.

• Bumpy and wiggly ride. Lack of refinement compared with my earlier rides. Makes me feel all the imperfections of the road.
  
• The feel of steering is a bit vague. I compare it with Honda City, Skoda Yeti and BMW GT-3. I may change this opinion with experience.
  
• Toyota i-connect is fiddly. It took Toyota more than 10 days to activate the communication module in the car. Even now it is throwing errors, and Toyota appears clueless about what to do.
  
• No ADAS! This is a bit ridiculous, particularly when it is available in HyCross. Manufacturers like Toyota need to proactively promote safety.
  
• Non-adaptive cruise-control. Cruise control is a waste of time and in my opinion potentially dangerous - if is NOT adaptive.
  
• Uncomfortable rear seats are well known for all pick-ups.
  
• Believe it or not, Toyota does not provide a printed Manual, nor a soft copy in PDF format. Instead they want one to read the very poorly implemented rendition of owner's manual on an equally buggy app. This is simply not acceptable.
  
• My biggest gripe is for Toyota to not provide even a simple tonneau cover. They could at the very least provided a water-proof tarpaulin cover that fitted smartly on the bed. It would have made the bed immediately useful. I am now struggling with how make this cover. There are after-market offerings that require drilling and are semi-permanent in nature. I am loath to spend a lakh or more on a solution I might not want a few months later.

The Quest

We have been looking for a companion/supplementary vehicle for our Skoda Yeti for sometime. Yeti has served us very well and we love it. It has taken us places far and high. At thirteen years, she needs a little more care. We considered several vehicles. The ones close to driving dynamics and refinements from the stable of WV/Audi/Skoda like Tiguan/Q3/Kodiak are not the same as what they were, besides being priced as if they were made of gold. The fantastic TDI motor has been withdrawn. DSG is not the most reliable, even-though brilliant to operate.

Hycross would have been a vehicle of choice. It is a hybrid. It was launched at a tolerable price-point. It is comfortable and ergonomics are spot on. Being from the stable of Toyota, we could assume high reliability. We liked what we saw. But dealers kept saying there is wait-list running into years. I can not fathom a waiting period that long with a manufacturer, who has a propensity of being extortionist with unpredictable upward price revisions.

The Fortuner and Hilux were way out of budget. That's last year.

We also considered pre-worshipped cars. We would scout the Team-BHP classifieds and other places. However, we felt that the pre-owned car prices too had sky-rocketed. Either people were reluctant to part with the cars or the market dynamics driven by chip shortages was contributing to intended or unintended shortages.

My son decided to have a fresh look at Hilux around March 23. I was not sure at all whether we wanted Hilux. Yet I somehow liked what I saw and felt on the test ride. Still, I was not convinced about the price and VFM.

Mehul went looking for good prices in Mumbai, Delhi and Pune. Around beginning of June, he got some excellent offers in Delhi and Mumbai. He also opened a dialogue with Shaw Toyota in Pune, and finally got a deal that made us look at Hilux with seriousness. Shekhar Choudhari and Pandurang Barate from Shaw Toyota, Pune were patient, professional and saw through the negotiations and showed the car in all its glory.

My wife loves to drive "any car". But she too has got spoiled by other cars. She was most reluctant about purchase of another car, when in her perception we did not really need one. In the end she reluctantly deferred to the two boys in the family. She loves us as much as she loves the cars.

The compromises

We sacrificed comfort and handling for reliability and ruggedness. It is difficult for me to understand whether the lack of refinement is to enhance durability or simply because Toyota found an excuse to cheap out. I am pretty certain (unlike what Toyota might like Hilux owners to believe), durability and reliability can co-exist with refinement, sophistication and comfort.

The list of features that have been left out:

1. Adaptive cruise control
2. Paddle shifters
3. Toyota ADAS features
4. 360 deg camera
5. TPMS
6. At least a basic bed cover (even if offered as an accessory)

We hope that the trade-offs and compromises will payout in their own time.

I also have a vague feeling that Hilux will outlast my ability to drive a car. That thought alone makes me fall in love with Hilux with all its imperfections.

The Dealership Experience, the First Ride and the Booking (June 11, 2023)

We mainly interacted with Mr Shekhar Choudhari and Mr Pandurang Barate of Shaw Auto at Pune. They were patient, cooperative and pleasant. The experience at dealership was always nice.

When I went to have a first look and a test ride, it was obvious that Shekhar was in love with Hilux. Shekhar explained the instruments, switches, and controls. We went around the town with Hilux, and with difficulty found a place which could be called mildly off-road. I first sat behind. The worse was not so bad. The seats were upright, but I did not find the ride bone jarring. Sitting up front, in driver's seat was definitely comfortable. The visibility was good and the view "commanding"! I could easily see four/five cars ahead and that helped anticipate the road conditions well. Hilux is a big car and I was quite wary of other drivers coming in my way. Yet it was surprisingly easy to drive.

After that single short drive, we booked the car. We considered different colours. Mehul appeared inclined towards a red, which was ruled out by my wife and I, as being too loud for us. Dark grey would show the scratches easily - something that Robin would inevitably mark on the car, as she jumped in and out of it. We settled for silver.

This was June 11, 2023.

Pre delivery Inspections

Shaw Toyota called on 22nd June that vehicle was available in the stockyard for initial inspection.

Mehul and I went to the stockyard in the evening of June 23rd. The monsoon had set in Pune only a day earlier. Washed by the fresh rain, the car looked nice and clean. TeamBHP checklist in hand, we went about inspecting the car. This is the time it begins to dawn that this vehicle will spend its life with us. One begins to look at it differently and with little extra love.

We were in for a genuine surprise when looked at the VIN sticker on the windshield. The car was manufactured on 17/06/2023 and delivered to Shaw Toyota on 22 Jun 2023. It had clocked 19 km on the odometer. Can't possibly ask for a more fresh piece!

Everything else looked in order and we provided our nod for the dealership to go ahead and prepare for registration and delivery.

At the Showroom

The car was ready for delivery on 26th June. We reached the showroom around 1600 hours. The car stood nice and shining. Once again, the TeamBHP checklist and final inspection. It passed that without any hiccup. We sat down to look at the paperwork. Registration, Insurance, FasTag were all in place.

Once again Shekhar and Pandurang were there at each step ensuring all went well.

Most of the free accessories were in place. For some inexplicable reason, while Toyota could manufacture the car at double-speed, it could not equip it with the floor mats. Dealership did not have then either.

On Road Price and Discounts

Much has been already written about the discounts on Hilux and the denial of their existence by Toyota. So will not delve into that.

I was upfront with Shekhar that having made a decision to purchase Hilux, I will feel shortchanged if, I later heard that someone else got a better deal. Therefore, it was a question of Shekhar's (and by that implication Shaw Toyota's) credibility, that was on line. In the end, I believe we got a deal that was better than any which I have seen so far, as far as the all-inclusive final on road price we paid.

Extended Warranty and Service Packages

We have chosen a five year and 1,50,000 km extended warranty. We shall choose the Service Packages when the vehicle goes for the first service at 1,000 km.

The Toyota Assure insurance from ICICI Lombard is Comprehensive, Zero Depreciation, Return to Invoice, Engine Protect, Tyre and Alloy protect, Windshield, Convenience etc. I believe it is as comprehensive as it gets.

There is also three year Toyota Road Side Assistance

Accessories

The deal was sweetened further by giving a bunch of accessories free of cost. There are a plenty of "cosmetic" accessories made by Toyota. But strangely, the one that they have not thought about and which, I missed most was a simple tarpaulin bed cover. We chose for the following accessories - mainly because they were offered for free (included in price we paid and not billed separately):

• Over Fender
• Side Visor
• Wheel House Liner Set
• Side Moulding
• Fender Mirror
• Scuff Plate
• Front Under Run
• Air Compressor
• Car Cover
• Rubber Mat AT

Engine Type, Variant and Safety kit

We have chosen Diesel HI AT variant of Hilux. In our opinion, this was the natural choice. I already find the clutch in Yeti on the heavy side. I can't imagine myself driving with manual gear shift, something that already looks and behave like a truck.

This car came equipped with seven airbags, ABS, ESC, Traction Control, Hill Start Assist, Hill Descent Control etc. However, it has no ADAS feature. Neither are they offered in any variant.

Build Quality, Fit and Finish, and Panel Gaps:

The vehicle has solid build quality, with well fitted panels and good paint quality. The fit and finish are pretty good.

The interior of the car offers a practical and functional layout (read utilitarian). The quality of material is used is generally good, with sturdy plastics, and durable leather upholstery. The design lacks some modern flair. The focus appears to be on providing robust long lasting cabin that can withstand rugged usage. Yet I feel that at places this has been used as an excuse for cost saving.

[SushilBajpai]

Initial Drive Impressions

Interior Space and Comfort

I felt that Hilux has ample interior space for both front and rear passengers. The seats offer good support and comfort. This should true for even long journeys. Legroom, headroom, and width are satisfactory for average-sized adult like me (at 5'10"). Notwithstanding the comments I read elsewhere I find that the seating is reasonably comfortable for all occupants.

Driving Position, Ergonomics, Controls and MID

Driving the Hilux is surprisingly easy and comfortable. The visibility is good with easy access to all controls. The ergonomics are well thought through (and have evolved to near perfection through the eight iterations of Hilux). The buttons are logically placed and the controls are within easy reach of the driver. The driver side seat gets electric controls. The steering wheel is also easy to adjust.

The Multi Information Display (MID) provides all sorts of information. The MID presents the data in different categories.

Selecting Drive Information:

- Current fuel economy. Displays the present rate of fuel consumption.
- Average Fuel Economy displays the average fuel consumption since 1) the function was reset, 2) the engine was started, and 3) the vehicle was refuelled respectively.
- Average speed since reset and the engine start respectively.
- Elapsed time since reset and engine start respectively.
- Range displays the estimated maximum distance the vehicle can be driven on remaining fuel.

Eco Driving Indicator

This displays eco-driving score for start, cruise and stop, with a hope to educate the drivers. I am a bit chuffed with the Toyota's efforts at educating the truckers among us to drive carefully.

Eco Saving:

When I refuelled, the car actually asked me to punch the cost of fuel per litre. It would use this information to tell me possible savings that I have made by driving sensibly.

Steering Angle:

This displays the direction of the front tyres in three stages, for both left and right, by the angle of tyre deflection.

Park Assist:

Apart for helping with the parking, the park assist makes a beep when ever a pedestrian or cycle tries to cut across close to the either front corner. I found this helpful.

AdBlue Gauge displays the quantity of AdBlue remaining in the tank.

I also noticed additional pop-up displays symbol, but do not quite know what they do .

Eco Score:

This is a bit fancy. Driving Conditions are displayed in five stages and divided onto three categories: Start, cruise and stop.

Eco Saving displays the fuel consumption comparison, the average fuel consumption after reset, and the cost of the consumed fuel.

The Visibility & Mirrors

The Hilux offers a pretty good visibility. The rear-view and side mirrors are good too. The inside rear-view mirror is auto dimming. In my opinion the right side OVRM should also have been auto-dimming.

I have got a fender mirror installed in a hope to clear the blind spot on the left. I am not sure whether it is useful. Perhaps I will figure out how to use it. At this time it looks like a piece of decoration.

Air Conditioning

I am happy with air-conditioning. It definitely appears to be better than the german cars - both the yeti as well as the BMW. The control are user-friendly and provide for dual zone air-conditioning. I am not quite as impressed by how it is implemented for the rear seats.

The weather in Pune is pleasant at no more than 26 deg Celsius. I would like to see what happens when outside temperature climbs to high 40s.

Audio System and Sound Quality

The existing system and sound quality would have been fine had I not been used to the Bolero System provided as stock in Yeti. The present system sounds middling in comparison. I suspect Fortuner gets a better system. This is a clear case cost cutting.

Interior Storage and Practicality

There are several storage compartments. The storage under the arm-rest between the front occupants is fairly deep and has a 220 V socket tucked in to charge lap-tops.

One of the two compartments of the glove box is cooled.

The Cargo Bed potentially provides a very large space for luggage. However, I have not been able to make any use of it as of now, because of lack of cover and incessant rain.

Stock Tyres and Other Options

Immediately after taking the delivery, we chose to exchange the stock tyres with 265/60R18 Michelin LTX Trail ST. The new tyre is quieter.

Engine Performance and Drivability

I have only had chance to drive the Hilux in City. I find that the best mode to drive in the city traffic is "Eco". It allows for smoother throttle response. The large engine still has plenty of reserve.

The weight and size of the car are both noticeable. Hilux is not as nimble or even sure footed as Yeti.

Yet it offers sufficient power and torque for city driving, allowing smooth acceleration and overtaking maneuvers. The low-end torque is available quite early and helps navigate in congested traffic conditions with ease.

One can feel each time the auto-box changes the gear. It is not quite as seam-less as the CVT auto in my 5th gen Honda City and not as quick or smooth as BMW GT3 torque converter.

I have not yet got an opportunity to experience the kickdown reaction time.

I can hear the engine in the cabin. But it is not so loud as to distract.

Fuel Efficiency

Hmm. Initially I thought it was a bummer. Like any youngster, my son took Hilux in his clutches and left it for me showing a measly 7.3 km/litre. In last five days my wife and I have brought that up to 10.5 km/litre in city driving.

I have a feeling that I should be able to get 16 km/litre during highway driving at speeds around 80 to 90 kmph. I am a very footed driver and nearly always get some good mileage out of any car.

What I am really happy about is the range - thanks to its 80 litre fuel tank. Hilux is happily showing a range of around 800 km with full tank and city driving. I hope it will get even better on highway. This is important for us, as we don't need to worry about refuelling from dubious fuel pumps. We normally prefer to use CO-CO bunks.

Handling, On-road Behavior, Body Roll & Turning Radius

Hilux has competent handling. I have not driven it enough to make a definitive opinion and will post separately when I go for longer drives. There is definite body roll when compared with cross-overs like Yeti.

The turning radius is an absolute nightmare. I will take some time getting used to it. I dread that I might have to embarrass myself with holding the traffic on U-turns.

Steering, Braking and Ground Clearance

I am still unable to decisively comment on steering. It is a bit vague. That might improve if I slightly increase the pressure in the front tyres, which I have kept at 29 PSI as suggested by Totyota. I plan to increase it to 31-32 PSI in front and 29 at the back.

Some of this effect might be due to the change in tyre from stock Bridgestone to Michelin LTX TRAIL ST tyres.

The brakes quite sharp at City driving speeds. I have not had a chance to use them as speed. I shall do that after 1000 km service,

The ground clearance is dream stuff in Pune - the city of speed-breakers and pot-holes. For time in my life I am driving a vehicle in which I don't care about speed breakers or potholes. Hilux takes no notice as it it lumbers over them.

[Aditya]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[ssathiyanarayan]

Originally Posted by SushilBajpai

Initial Drive Impressions

The ground clearance is dream stuff in Pune - the city of speed-breakers and pot-holes. For time in my life I am driving a vehicle in which I don't care about speed breakers or potholes. Hilux takes no notice as it it lumbers over them.

Hi SushilBajpai, congratulations on your new beast. Wishing you many more happy miles and memories with it. Your reviews should grow and i hope will serve as a guide in picking this utility vehicle down the line in another 5 to 6 years
Warm Regards,
Sathiya Narayanan

[SushilBajpai]

Many thanks indeed. I shall endeavour to post updates as Hilux settles down in our family and we all grow together.

If Hilux, indeed proves as rugged as it is reputed to be, then this thread should have a long life.

I see three scenarios which might play out!

- an increased popularity due increased presence on back of current discounts - even after they cease to exist.
- Toyota clears the existing stock - as some predict, and pulls the plug for Hilux
- Toyota introduces a full lineup and supports Hilux aggressively.

All present interesting possibilities.

All cars are depreciating asset, but, under exceptional circumstances some depreciate relatively slowly and begin to acquire a following after a period of time. We could see this happening with Hilux and V-cross.

In any case, I hope to see this thread mature from the initial ownership review, to “gup-shup” around Hilux to long-term ownership thread.

[mukkavil]

Very elaborate description of Hilux ownership.

Following another post on 10 lacs as offered discount with extended warranty, the dealers in Bangalore have offered 8 lacs plus extended warranty.

Can you share the discount received for the car?

[SushilBajpai]

Originally Posted by mukkavil

Very elaborate description of Hilux ownership.

Following another post on 10 lacs as offered discount with extended warranty, the dealers in Bangalore have offered 8 lacs plus extended warranty.

Can you share the discount received for the car?

I got substantial discount for “on road price” rather than “ex-showroom price”. So what you hear is definitely not rumour. What Toyota is saying is possibly contextual truth. It depends on what is not said.

I shall refrain from discussing the exact amount, as that only feeds speculation.

In an ideal world the cars would be priced such that there is no need to induce customers to buy them through discounts and freebies.

In real world though, the discounts have become a norm. There is an element of speculation to any negotiation. I am happy that Hilux buyers are paving a way to find that intersection which keeps intact the interests of both seller and buyer.

[SaiChaithanya]

Originally Posted by mukkavil

the dealers in Bangalore have offered 8 lacs plus extended warranty.

Can you share which dealer in Bangalore is offering this discount?

[mukkavil]

Originally Posted by SaiChaithanya

Can you share which dealer in Bangalore is offering this discount?

It is Viva Toyota on the Airport Road.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by SushilBajpai

In an ideal world the cars would be priced such that there is no need to induce customers to buy them through discounts and freebies.

In real world though, the discounts have become a norm..

I'm going a little off-topic and yet staying on topic with this post.

You are absolutely right. For one thing, in these last maybe 10-15 years, across industries, automotive, electronics, fashion, general merchandise etc, there is a SERIOUS problem of over-production and excess stock (overall and generally speaking). The world indeed has a big issue with excess merchandise.

Excess merchandise is one of the reasons that initial high pricing, followed by deep discounting has become a reality. If they were to price things correctly from Day 1, we would escape at least a portion of this ‘vicious cycle.’

Fast Fashion is one big culprit where the use and throw mentality is feeding a different sort of crazy consumerism.

Just as a perspective, buying a top quality product on day 1 and using that product for a longer time used to be the norm. (It still is, with some of us.)

But then, with shortening attention spans, higher disposable incomes and the overriding urge to ‘show and tell’ comes this phenomenon of ‘user-fatigue’ which causes people to change or upgrade not out of ‘need’ but out of ‘want’. This is the essence of the new world of crazy consumerism.

Which in turn fuels production, scale, jobs, investments and the overall economy.

So it is really a ‘vicious circle’, because it promotes huge waste and obviously harms the environment, but it is masked beautifully as a ‘virtuous circle’ because of the over-riding tornado of economic impact, which supersedes everything else in a consumer-led society; and honestly, all of us, without exception, one way or another, are caught up in it.

This Capitalist tornado feeds upon itself and makes an endless whirlwind of production, consumerism and thus fuels the ‘flow of money’. A perpetual merry-go-round. And we are not able to get off of it! And that is why we all have to slave away to earn that money and keep spending it and keep aspiring to bigger better material things.

We are ‘slaves’ to this unforgiving treadmill. And that is why I think we are more ‘victims’ than ‘beneficiaries’.

[SushilBajpai]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

So it is really a ‘vicious circle’, because it promotes huge waste and obviously harms the environment, but it is masked beautifully as a ‘virtuous circle’ because of the over-riding tornado of economic impact, which supercedes everything else in a consumer-led society ; and honestly, all of us, without exception, one way or another, are caught up in it.

This Capitalist tornado feeds upon itself and makes an endless whirlwind of production, consumerism and thus fuels the ‘flow of money’. A perpetual merry-go-round.
And we are not able to get off of it! And that is why we all have to slave away to earn that money and keep spending it and keep aspiring to bigger better material things.

We are ‘slaves’ to this unforgiving treadmill. And that is why I think we are more ‘victims’ than ‘beneficiaries’.

Very well said. There is no doubt that we we are continuously being sold as a paradise, what is essentially a hell.

The reinforcing feedback loop creates a cycle exponential growth on the back of exponential consumerism. Unfortunately, in spite of pandemic (which itself fed on exponential growth albeit of the virus) we don’t really comprehend exponential growth.

Your message is very much valid for the thread.

I hope Hilux would not need an early retirement and see it outlive multiple owners.

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

We are ‘slaves’ to this unforgiving treadmill. And that is why I think we are more ‘victims’ than ‘beneficiaries’.

We are victims by our own choice. We want the world to show that "we have arrived" (yet no one really cares).

I remember a saying, "We buy things we don't need to impress people we don't like".

Another big factor post Covid is FOMO (Fear of missing out). After lockdown and devestating Covid waves, we as society went all berserk fueling our passions and material aspirations. And we did not want to wait and go slow, but be "fast" in the rat race and accumulate as much material as possible, supposedly to gain "inner peace" and "happiness" and to fulfill our ego. However its another topic of discussion that inner peace and happiness has nothing to do with our expensive possessions, rather is a state of mind accomplished through meaningful relationships, mindfulness, being in present and appreciating little things in life.

Anyway, lots of off topic !

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by DCEite

We are victims by our own choice. , "We buy things we don't need to impress people we don't like".

If only the pricing were rational for all products from day 1 itself, there would be no need for this deep discounting and clearance sale nonsense.
Sadly the latter two have become the worldwide norm.

And yes most definitely; We buy things we don't need with money we don't have to impress people we don't like.

[mukkavil]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

If only the pricing were rational for all products from day 1 itself, there would be no need for this deep discounting and clearance sale nonsense.
Sadly the latter two have become the worldwide norm.

And yes most definitely; We buy things we don't need with money we don't have to impress people we don't like.

Unfortunately, despite strong reference to the known facts on deep discounts by multiple dealers across the country, they are hoping for sales, with least offered discounts!

This trend seemed to be the norm. But for the esteemed Team- BHPians sharing information, no one would have had credible information on such offers across dealerships!

[SushilBajpai]

As the Hilux inches towards its first service, it has done a couple of Pune-Mumbai-Pune runs, in heavy downpours without any complaints or surprises.

The wipers appear less effective than good old trusty Yeti.

It does breed greater confidence to drive carefree (relatively) through the pothole ridden and water-logged roads of Kalina, during recent heavy rains.

The Toyota i-connect continues to be buggy. It deserves an independent post on this in coming days.