[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

I would still consider the 4 door as an option.
Would you?

Is practicality the biggest deal breaker in present 2 door version for you?

1 - I will certainly buy the 2020 Thar, but not before late 2021 or 2022, because I, as a prospective customer, want Mahindra to properly Beta test the Thar and iron out it's problems before I part with my hard earned money. I have no use for the Thar's looks etc. but a real use for the combination of abilities that this vehicle provides me with.

2- It is somewhat likely that Mahindra has done a good testing job themselves this time, in which case I am hoping to find lightly used/abused pieces in the used market by late next year, which I can pick up and save some cash. I am pretty sure that a large part of the early customer base would gravitate back to greater creature comforts after their tryst with the so called "jeep life".

3 - The 2 door is not a deal breaker for me, although the 4 door will be desirable even for a premium.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by GTO

J
Well said. Mahindra basically sucks at tuning its body-on-frame UVs. See other models too like the Scorpio, TUV300 etc. and there is a long list of Mahindra UVs that ride poorly + handle poorly. On the other hand, there are other body-on-frame UVs that ride well and / or handle well too.

Originally Posted by viXit

in this regard I think the safari has set a benchmark for cars even a segment above. Ride quality is amazing! and the pedigree continues, the HEXA is proof!

As a TUV300 owner, what I've observed by driving it and learnt by speaking to the MASS mechanics and service advisors is that the Scorpio, TUV 300 & Thar have hard suspensions by design. With these hard suspensions, Mahindra's intent is to enable these 3 cars to have exceptional bad road capability - at least that's what they've told me. The trade-off is essentially between passenger comfort and indestructibility on bad roads. These cars bounce and skid over bad road surfaces while their suspensions don't execute much up and down movement at all. I think it's their suspensions' springs which encase the suspensions that prevent the suspension within from getting activated most of the time. Perhaps that's why these cars can speed over bad roads without breaking anything. And they seemingly "float" over bad roads at higher speeds.

Meanwhile, while the suspension is obviously hard on the Scorpio and the TUV 300, the older generation Thar has actually had way better suspension travel range. I'm puzzled if this means that the older generation Thar actually has a soft suspension? The suspension travel range can also be due to the axle (live axle etc.), I know...

Meanwhile, Tata Safari, Aria and Hexa have soft suspensions - in the sense that they sag quite a bit under a full load, their wheels do a lot of up and down going over potholes etc. You'll never see a Scorpio's or TUV 300's wheels exhibiting an equally nimble up/down wheel movement over bad roads within their wheel wells the way Tata's body on frame UVs do it.

Lastly, you'll see the Marazzo exhibiting a soft suspension with its wheels' up/down movement over bad roads. We all know how comfortable the Marazzo is for its passengers.

I'm also fishing for insights and gyaan from the experts here by spelling out my observations. This is a topic that has piqued my curiosity for a while now, besides. How has Tata done it while Mahindra hasn't and why?

[Vinod_nair]

Originally Posted by locusjag

As a TUV300 owner, what I've observed by driving it and learnt by speaking to the MASS mechanics and service advisors is that the Scorpio, TUV 300 & Thar have hard suspensions by design.

I'm also fishing for insights and gyaan from the experts here by spelling out my observations. This is a topic that has piqued my curiosity for a while now, besides. How has Tata done it while Mahindra hasn't and why?

The difference between Tata and Mahindra is, Tata invests a major chunk in R&D in whatever they do, (because of their deep pockets) and most of TATA's suspension work is handled by Lotus.

Mahindra have the best Italian design House in Pinafineria (could be a spelling mistake by me), it had a hand in designing Marrazzo so the product is better, I suppose they still mostly cater to the rural junta, so the mindset, maybe.

My 2 cents.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by locusjag

As a TUV300 owner, what I've observed by driving it and learnt by speaking to the MASS mechanics and service advisors is that the Scorpio, TUV 300 & Thar have hard suspensions by design. With these hard suspensions, Mahindra's intent is to enable these 3 cars to have exceptional bad road capability - at least that's what they've told me. The trade-off is essentially between passenger comfort and indestructibility on bad roads.


Meanwhile, Tata Safari, Aria and Hexa have soft suspensions - in the sense that they sag quite a bit under a full load, their wheels do a lot of up and down going over potholes etc. You'll never see a Scorpio's or TUV 300's wheels exhibiting an equally nimble up/down wheel movement over bad roads within their wheel wells the way Tata's body on frame UVs do it.

That’s a rather silly excuse for bad suspension tuning. Fact is that Mahindra continues to suck at it, while Tata has pretty much mastered the art while ensuring there is no compromise on durability or bad road ability. It was the old Safari that used to sag when loaded. Their newer UVs don’t have this problem. My Hexa has done 90000km and the suspensions are more or less as good as new. Credit should be given where it is due.

There is no justification for Mahindra’s inability to get their suspensions right in 2020. They will not be able to survive in the cutthroat modern SUV market if they don’t sort this out. Thar can get away to some extent on account of its short wheelbase. But the upcoming new gen XUV500 and Scorpio have to ride and handle as nicely as the Harrier.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by iamjoelj

I am looking to start developing accessories to resolve the shortcomings, but would like to what department would I need to approach to receive such support in the process.

IMO the biggest shortcoming of the new Thar is space utilization and luggage space. So, there should be a big scope for products catering to storage solutions including provisions for a roof rack on the fiber top. Most likely, the big players would have already started designing the products in collaboration with M&M but there will definitely be market for innovative solutions from new players. All the best for venture.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Sanjivvohra

A great opportunity to TD Thar in an environment for which it was built. Thar did not disappoint on any of the obstacles. Drive was on 4x4 low.

Thanks for sharing. The AX looks quite appealing to me, with those nice steel rims and meatier tires, especially since it is available in the convertible/4-seater avatar as well, albeit only in M/T.

BTW, wonder why was the driver left with a spinning rear wheel at 1:26 min into the second video. Shouldn't the MLD have kicked in within a second or two?

Originally Posted by VRJ

is there is shift on fly (2H to 4H or 4L) only on the manual transmission, but not for the the AT.

2H to 4H can be done on the fly (up to a certain speed) but 4H to 4L has to be done while the car is at standstill and drivetrain disengaged (essentially in N), irrespective of A/T or M/T

Originally Posted by VRJ

Maybe it’s because of the fact that I’m a millennial and I never drove the MM540’s, the first gen Thar and the other older jeeps and I’m used to driving Verna’s and Fortuner’s, my expectations of the Thar are different.

Thank you for answering your own query! That is exactly the point! Reading TD reviews over the last week or so, I've come to realize that a significant proportion of prospective buyers seem to be new to this category of vehicles - a SWB, ladder on frame, off-road biased "SUV". While M&M might call it an SUV, it still retains its jeep DNA and rightly so! Whatever be the amount of tuning and refinement done to it, the Thar will retain some of these characteristics and folks looking for a Fortuner / Endeavour kind of experience are simply shopping in the wrong segment

Originally Posted by roy_libran

I am pretty sure that a large part of the early customer base would gravitate back to greater creature comforts after their tryst with the so called "jeep life"

Spot on! I am tempted to join you in that boat

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

That’s a rather silly excuse for bad suspension tuning. Fact is that Mahindra continues to suck at it, while Tata has pretty much mastered the art while ensuring there is no compromise on durability or bad road ability.

There is no justification for Mahindra’s inability to get their suspensions right in 2020. They will not be able to survive in the cutthroat modern SUV market if they don’t sort this out.

Why so defensive about Tata my friend? No accusations were made, only observations were shared. I only know what I know from what I hear and what I experience myself.

By the way, you're saying that despite enjoying a soft suspension, you too can sail at speed in Hexa over really broken roads and not necessarily break anything? I can do that in my TUV 300. Just asking.

It was the old Safari that used to sag when loaded. Their newer UVs don’t have this problem.

Good to know!

[Malhi]

Originally Posted by VRJ

Yes, it is a tall body on frame SUV, but so are the Fortuner and Endeavour and they drive exceptionally well on highways and bad roads. I know they fall in to different price brackets, but is expecting a good and settled ride too much to ask when I’m paying 16.5L? I don’t think so. Maybe it’s because of the fact that I’m a millennial and I never drove the MM540’s, the first gen Thar and the other older jeeps and I’m used to driving Verna’s and Fortuner’s, my expectations of the Thar are different.

Cheers!

Fortuner and Endeavour drive exceptionally well on bad roads? Now that's news. 540 and older jeeps being lighter and with the capacity of being bashed around will run much better than F and E. I am pretty sure the new Thar will easily be at par with F and E if not better on bad roads. However, the Duster is on a different level altogether.

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by locusjag

Lastly, you'll see the Marazzo exhibiting a soft suspension with its wheels' up/do

I'm also fishing for insights and gyaan from the experts here by spelling out my observations. This is a topic that has piqued my curiosity for a while now, besides. How has Tata done it while Mahindra hasn't and why?

I guess it's the quality of suspension components used as well. I guess Tata uses robust heavy duty components in the chassis, axles, springs, shock absorbers etc, which show as an increase in kerb weight. The scorpio is 1700kgs where as the Storme is 2140kgs. Maybe this is where the ride quality improves?

[Kosfactor]

Gentlemen - We need not bash brands over suspension designs. I`m sure the manufacturer as well knows this when they roll the cars out what it can and what it cannot. So the use case matters , so is cost , maintenance requirements and associated costs etc. What works for HEXA wont work for Sumo, what works for Innova wont work for Fortuner etc.

If you have been following Thar`s story (applies to Scorpio and similar vehicles) - A requirement is that the vehicle responds quick to steering inputs on the highway (Unknown territory for a Jeep or whatever based on Jeep). This does not mean the vehicle is a Ferrari nor will it keep biriyani of backseat passengers in their stomach, its just that the vehicle will respond to driver input and do a double lane change - thats it.

It also needs to carry either 4 or 8/9 passengers on the same suspension.

Then Tow which means tongue weight over the rear axle. Then the height - one of the tallest if not The tallest, Wheelbase one of the shortest and relatively heavy with offroad hardware.

It would be a suspension designer`s nightmare. I dont think ruggedness & load bearing characteristics can be compromised, cost certainly is sensitive, the suspension has one more important thing to do - Keep the tires on the road.

So there goes ride and handling to the bottom of that PPT.

[nishkamm]

Please someone build sliding windows at the back. Will be helpful for people who are travel sick, especially in the mountains.

[KMT]

It's horses for courses isn't it?

Buying an offroader and expecting silken suspension is like buying a sedan and going offroading.

I was recently speaking to the owner of a Xenon 4x4. He said he would not wish the vehicle on his worst enemy as the suspension chews up the suspension bushes and front tyres. Then we read about the poor suspension on Army Safaris that is causing accidents.

In my place, Tata suspensions are viewed as unreliable by the general public. It's Mahindra all the way.

Anyway in the worst case, I'm sure a set of Ironmans will reduce rolling and pitching.

[Slushmaster]

As an owner of Mahindra Thar(2014 Model), I think that ride quality will be improved in the 2020 Thar. The suspension in vehicles that are going to face a lot of abuse are bound to have suspension that is stiff & more abuse friendly. Add the rural target audience to it and suddenly maintenance, costs, load lugging capacity takes a priority over comfort. One of the prime reasons for bad ride quality on Bolero & Scorpio, but they serve the intended purpose.

Most of the purchase decisions of aspirational vehicles like Thar are done by heart, not by head. My suggestion to all the fellow BHPians who are considering or have booked a Thar without testing it enough, please take a long test drive and then measure your priorities. You cannot expect it to be a car, so take as many test drives as possible to decide and if feels right, buy it and love it.

On the Tata vs Mahindra suspensions- I have owned almost all the iterations of Tata Safari, and before Storme the suspension required a lot of love and care. With Storme and Aria, things are not like previous gen Safaris. They are comfortable, reliable and requires absolutely no periodic maintainence. My Storme has done 1Lakh+ kilometers and seen on and off road in 50-50 proportion and never had any suspension problems, only rattles and a lot of rattles from doors.

Also, these days offroading is talked as in people are only going to do the tough stuff and rock crawling. But, gravel roads and dirt tracks form 90-95% of the off roading stuff and I think Safaris & Hexas will outshine any Mahindra's vehicle with 4wd/AWD system. If I have to pick a vehicle out of my own Storme or Thar for Leh or Pangi-Kishtwar, I will always choose Storme. For Weekend offroading near Gurgaon or Chandigarh, any day Thar is going to be my first choice. Sorry for going off-topic.

[amol4184]

Originally Posted by amol4184

I was checking the online booking website for Thar and you only have option of 2 colors for AX, AX-STD and AX-O: Red and Black.
Ok what? Give me Rocky Beige on AX~! o_O

Just an update on my own doubt. Yes there are only 2 colors for AX range. Probably because these two are "solid" colors while all others are metallic.

[vkochar]

So I finally managed to get my first glance and a proper long TD that included both slight off roading and highway run.

I booked this quite a while ago. And was eagerly waiting to get my hands and eyes on it to make a final decision. Reading reviews and comments for the last few days I started having doubts.

However glad to tell you all second mind doubts or indecisiveness has gone out of the window.

So I climbed atop ( literally climbed ! ) as it is not a small step to get in. Pushed the seat back and adjusted it and sat and first impressions were literally how big this car is.

The key fob was given and along with 2 showroom people I made my driver also sit behind so we were a full 4 adults.

This car is absolute fun & joy to drive if I need to sum it up. It eats potholes like no other car does. Went to a nearby construction site and a bit off a dusty and broken road and what could have been an unpleasant experience in any other car including my Innova it was an absolute pleasure to ride this.

In fact I would probably be looking at roads that are bad to get this bad boy in action. I suppose every thar owner would relate to it.

I cannot stress enough to tell you all how many eyeballs this car gets. It is an absolute magnet. Every age and gender looks at this and then ensure there co passengers or anyone around them if not looking look at it. Its crazy and I can understand why. I had people follow me to take videos of this and I had an elderly gentleman follow us and trail behind and then overtake and kept taking pictures. We all 4 had a laugh.

I have not had this much fun TD a vehicle like I had this one today.

Engaging the 2H to 4H and then N and 4L are slightly tricky and need taking used to.

The glare on the AV Unit is quite a lot and you are not getting crystal clear views.

The speakers from the top sound funny.

The steering and brakes all are good so no spongy feel or lack of response.

The seats are brilliantly comfy.

I drove a manual and I did not feel the lack of a dead pedal at all. I was pretty comfortable.

I drove a manual however I booked an AT. I assume it will be easier and more comfortable although I had no problem driving this Manual even though I am now used to driving AT's only.

The rear is best suited to Kids and young adults or medium framed human beings for small city runs. Forget taking your family to vacations if there are 4. You have zero space in the boot which is possibly the only biggest sore point. I am actually shocked to see the lack of space in the rear once the seats are reclined.

The rear glass is extremely light and felt like it was not even glass. Anyway I was not bothered much as I was too mesmerized and post the TD ended I wished I could take delivery of this vehicle right away.

Special mention to the dealer (Atmaram Autos ) and the staff who were extremely polite and the owner even came out to talk about the vehicle and even though he was super busy he took out time. I am not a Mahindra owner and it was the second time I stepped in this showroom ever.

Am I buying it immediately - absolutely yes. Been promised a date November 1st week. Trouble is BLACK HT AT is quite possible the most demanded vehicle.

Does it make sense as a family vehicle and is it practical - Nopes.

But then we all live once don't we. So why not. No brainer for me then. We shall see what happens.