[GP19]

Visited the NBS M&M Showroom at Andheri to check out the new Thar.
They have three models for display, one inside the showroom (AT) and one outside the showroom(MT), one for test drive (MT). All of them were in black colour and hard top variant.

Few observations after the test drive :

1. Width of the car is noticeable while driving.
2. Car is bouncy on concrete road.
3. Commanding seating position.
4. Slotting of gear was flimsy and use to make click noise.
5. Steering should have some weight.

Few pictures which I took.

One HAS to see the car in person to understand its proportion, pictures don't do justice.



Black colour makes it look upmarket.



Rear looks imposing.



Engine bay.



4x4 Transfer Case Lever, surprisingly the design of the lever was different in MT.



Latch with dedicated R and L lettering.



As per the sales person, M&M has informed the dealers to display one car in such manner.

[ramki.grandhi]

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[Sanjivvohra]

Originally Posted by jkrishnakj

What i see as the Movements of Sentiments of this thread after 36 pages:

Euphoria -- > Great Pricing -- > First Time Jeepers -- > Does one really Need a Jeep-- > Second Thoughts on pricing -- > Abilities of the vehicle--> Waiting for Pre-Worshipped ones, assuming first timers will crave for comfort and get tired of this.

Sorry to be thinking differently, but why do i somehow have a feeling that M&M will find the first available opportunity to increase prices. ?

Completely agree and my thinking has progressed in pretty similar lines. As more 'reviewers' move from the Euphoria stage to a more balanced view of the ability of the vehicle, the thought process of buyers will change accordingly. My 'ah - ha' moment was when two reviewers separately quoted the steering lag and the ineffective brakes (in a sense). That gave me pause and I'm quite willing to wait the good wait till I find some real life reviews that negate these findings, OR M&M fixes the issue. Till the 'ah-ha' moment I was wondering what trick I could use with my better half to buy this as a third car for our garage, No more. I'm willing to wait, thank you!

[bolbolerobol]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

A hike of almost 35% is just 3 years or so. This is the sort of pricing curve the Thar seeks to emulate - only, with a totally different volume curve - say 50X the volumes

I am not very sure this works the same way for the Thar, the way it worked for the RE Bullet. Bullet in its category is probably priced close to the competition offering things similar or better.

At the launch price, the Thar is definitely expensive for the pure off-road community by few lakhs, mostly used as an adventure off-road and as a 2/3rd vehicle. For those with the heart that wins over their mind, there is no other alternative and the price though it bites a bit won't come into the perspective.

For a primary family vehicle (for volumes) it lacks several features that similar/lower priced cars offer, to be used as a daily commuter and as a touring vehicle.

It needs things like better boot space, arm rests, bigger glove box, better rear seat access, rear seat side/middle and footwell space, better fuel economy, rear windows that open, metal roof, better audio quality, better headlights, more airbags, better on-road manners/stability/braking etc. to name a few that come to my mind.

With these concerns it may be hard for Thar to justify a 35% price increase in 3 years. I think it's safe for Mahindra to count on numbers with lower margins and constantly providing improvements.

New Thar will definitely do to masses what RE Bullet did, become a very popular icon in the mainstream as the time catches on.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

Was this the AX variant? Seeing the steel rear spare wheel and those sweet looking alloys available as an accessory!

It was the one with steel wheels, sorry, I have not familiarized myself with its models and names.

The alloy look alike are wheel caps and yes, they did look good.

A closer picture for you.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Sheel

A closer picture for you.

It is the AX, going by the steel wheels and fixed soft top. I believe it wouldn't have had the touchscreen.

Also, this does not seem to be stock as I can see some sort of a cladding as well.

[DirtyDan]

In the past it has been prudent for prospective buyers of brand new models to wait one or two years for the manufacturer to get the "kinks" out of the vehicle. Vehicles have been launched with serious flaws; bad unreliable motors, transmissions, fuel intakes that caught fire, steering boxes that failed regularly. This is true of the old standard North American auto manufacturers and even some of them again recently along with others. In fact, I once was employed as an engineering tech/test driver for Dana Corp. and my job was to test drive and break vehicles. So, I have some first hand crash knowledge of same.

So, I have a question. What parts of the new Thar are tried and true and which are brand spanking new? I am particularly interested in the engines, transmission, axles. Are these really out of the pre-existing parts bin, used and proven in other vehicles or are they brand new virgin hardware? I don't worry too much about the sheet metal. What about the stuff that makes the Thar go, roll and stop? New or old?

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by TokyoDrifter

Misc. Pricing:
Incidental charges: 9090
=====
Total: 17,46,416 (Thane Registration)

Incidental charges, what are they? Is it just another name for logistics charges, created by dealer to avoid the fuss around logistic charges?

[navpreet318]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

.....................
So, I have a question. What parts of the new Thar are tried and true and which are brand spanking new? I am particularly interested in the engines, transmission, axles............

Well these have to be items which are already in use or atleast made of parts which are currently in use.
For example lets take the Axles. Those are supplied by Dana Spicer India and made at the Chakan Plant. Now I'm sure these would be from the standard family of axles. It at all any development is required it is generally the track which again can be adjusted. So the Banjo housing is made similar to the current crop of SUVs. All have them. Storme, Scorpio, Bolero, Sumo, Etc. Etc. The differentials are standard and the ratios too are generally common. For example the Xylo had the same differential as the Sumo.
The Transfer case again is by Borg and Warner. They must have picked it up from the family which is already tried and tested.
The 2.2L Diesel engine is the standard unit from AVL which is used in both Tata as well as Mahindra Vehicles. They are using an Aluminum Block but then again the block is the least of the worried. It is just a lump encapsulating the moving Piston. So that is an bullet proof engine. More so because it is now tuned for a lower output.

The brakes come fitted with the Axles or is supplied from one of the suppliers which supplies it from one of its existing families.

So you see everything is already developed. The parts are not taken from Mahindras parts bin. They are taken form the parts bins of suppliers. Sometimes they develop some parts at local level to reduce costs. Last time they did that and we saw a flurry of front axle failures in the Thar. All for a small seal and savings of Rs.540/-.

[Axe77]

It seems like all the showrooms are inundated with only the black color mostly. I went to the Pune showroom off Pune / B;lore highway. There were two black MT diesels in HT parked. With so many variant options as well as so many lovely color options, I don't understand why they have carpet bombed showrooms predominantly with one color, depriving customers from being able to see multiple color options in the flesh.

My first observations on a quick look at the car, (I haven't driven it yet), I feel these are some aspects that could have been dealt with better or differently for a more urban friendly experience.

1. Vehicle Length / boot space: Since anyway there are no tax benefits, I wish they had added just about 3" more to the length of the jeep to make the boot space just that touch more usable.

2. Rear seat: Is a bench. I was hoping if they are two seats, I could simply remove one seat if its just on bolts to add better boot capacity with 3 passengers. Sadly this will not be possible. Its either going to be a 2 seater or 4 seater. Also, even if you put the seatback down, like Slipstream mentioned, the back rest of the seat is hollow so placing the luggage on that fabric is dodgy. your better bet is to travel with backpack style bags and keep them wherever you can in the car: second row floor, on second row seat etc.

3. Luggage in second row: Even this is hard to accommodate on the floor bed because of the significant protrusion of wheel well into the floor. Keeping "on" the seat is also sub optimal. All in all if a family of 3 (2 adults, 1 child) have to even go for a 3 - 6 day driving holiday luggage REALLY is going to be a problem.

Other than that the positives are of course there for all to see. I have only highlighted the cons here in more detail. The pros have of course been extolled to no end, many or most of which I agree with. The vehicle looks like a million bucks, has tremendous presence, incredible desirability quotient. I will write more detailed thoughts on it once I've driven it. To my mind the drive will only ascertain whether I can live with the driving dynamics or whether they are deal breakers for me.

The driving dynamics related aspects are things one has to accept if one wants this product. But the above points listed are aspects that could have been addressed by Mahindra from a design front. Wish they had indeed paid a little more attention to it.

[amol4184]

Originally Posted by Axe77

It seems like all the showrooms are inundated with only the black color mostly. I went to the Pune showroom off Pune / B;lore highway. There were two black MT diesels in HT parked. With so many variant options as well as so many lovely color options, I don't understand why they have carpet bombed showrooms predominantly with one color, depriving customers from being able to see multiple color options in the flesh.

Same feeling! Went to same showroom and have same qualm. I also didn’t understand why one of the Thar was being pampered in nicer LED lit air conditioned room while the other one was in the hotter area. The black color looked dull in already dimly lit indoors on a cloudy day. They flooded all media drives with red and now this black. I was so eager to checkout different colors than black but no dice. Also no test drives in Pune yet. We are being shortchanged.
P.s. why don’t the dealers disconnect horns on these vehicles? In the 20 or so minutes I was there, over enthusiastic kids and adults honked the horn 4 times scaring the living bejesus out of people checking out engine bay.

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

.. Now I'm sure these would be from the standard family of axles. It at all any development is required it is generally the track which again can be adjusted. So the Banjo housing is made similar to the current crop of SUVs. A They are taken form the parts bins of suppliers. Sometimes they develop some parts at local level to reduce costs. Last time they did that and we saw a flurry of front axle failures in the Thar. All for a small seal and savings of Rs.540/-.

Good informative answer. As a test driver I once crashed a Dana equipped heavy duty 4X4 pickup truck. Its front axle assembly failed at the Banjo. I made the most amazing furrow across many meters of turf with the busted assembly. I exited without a scratch, didn't even spill my can of Coca-Cola. It turned out to be a production line assembly problem. The boys who built the front end weren't properly trained. Another hazard of new model vehicle purchase.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Axe77

2. Rear seat: Is a bench. I was hoping if they are two seats, I could simply remove one seat if its just on bolts to add better boot capacity with 3 passengers. Sadly this will not be possible. Its either going to be a 2 seater or 4 seater. Also, even if you put the seatback down, like Slipstream mentioned, the back rest of the seat is hollow so placing the luggage on that fabric is dodgy. your better bet is to travel with backpack style bags and keep them wherever you can in the car: second row floor, on second row seat etc.

3. Luggage in second row: Even this is hard to accommodate on the floor bed because of the significant protrusion of wheel well into the floor. Keeping "on" the seat is also sub optimal. All in all if a family of 3 (2 adults, 1 child) have to even go for a 3 - 6 day driving holiday luggage REALLY is going to be a problem.

The Thar is not a comfort oriented family vehicle which can be taken to a resort in Ooty or Mahabaleshwar. Most likely the occupants will need extra spa sessions for the sore bodies.
It is a rugged offroader with some creature comforts such as an AC, infotainment system and optional AT. In its present form, to equate it to even a Scorpio in terms of comfort would be a slight stretch. Although Mahindra can up the comfort levels a bit in a 4 door 2.0 version.

[Rangy62]

Can anyone explain this please, in the features comparison on all models except the Lx version it says snow chain provision for tyres is present. What exactly do they mean and why not for the Lx version?

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

The Thar is not a comfort oriented family vehicle which can be taken to a resort in Ooty or Mahabaleshwar. Most likely the occupants will need extra spa sessions for the sore bodies.
It is a rugged offroader with some creature comforts such as an AC, infotainment system and optional AT. In its present form, to equate it to even a Scorpio in terms of comfort would be a slight stretch. Although Mahindra can up the comfort levels a bit in a 4 door 2.0 version.

1. M&M is trying to make the Thar more well rounded and acceptable.
2. I did not say it is missing "comfort". In fact it has sufficient creature comforts for a rugged jeep. I simply implied that it is missing that slight edge of additional practicality that it could have had. i.e. If I want to take it to a resort in Ooty (something that M&M's new target market may want to do), it does not have the place to hold my luggage for Ooty.

Personally if I buy a Thar, I would well want to use it for short 3 - 4 day trips in the monsoons or otherwise to places like Alibag / Mahabaleshwar / Pawana or any other place also with very rough last mile access. In such a case, it would have definitely been nice if my family of 2 adults and 1 child could easily fit luggage for such a 2 - 4 day trip. And with very little changes, it could well have had that space.