[chiranjitp]

An update on some works done on the car:

Few days back I took the Swift out to get some groceries, parked the car & went to the store. All was perfect till then. Came back after shopping, started the car & moved the gear knob to 1st gear, the gear shifting felt very loose. Released the clutch, the engine died, tried to engage reverse gear, no luck there as well. Then after a few attempts I realized that the gearbox is stuck in 3rd gear . My initial reaction was that the clutch had failed, then it occurred to me that I am able to shift to neutral when I pressed the clutch. Revved the engine & slipped the clutch generously, I was able to start off in 3rd. Tried shifting to 4th, it went to 4th perfectly, then tried engaging 5th gear, it went back to 3rd gear. So my Swift GB had become a 2 speed GB, only lateral shifting between 3rd & 4th gear was possible.

I had to drive the car around 10km like this, every time the speed went below 15kmph I would need to generously slip the clutch. Finally reached my FNG (which is near my home), the mechanic took a look at the engine bay & told me that one of the gear shifting cables has been dislodged from its slot. In the Swift there are two gear shifting cables that go from the the gear lever to the gearbox. My mechanic told me that there's a small bush which locks the cable to the GB & it is missing from my car (as in it broke off). The mechanic tightened the cable with some copper wires & told me that this jugaad will last the distance. I on the other hand wanted a permanent solution, which meant replacing the whole cable shifting assembly (which costs Rs. 2101). I went home that day with the jugaad fix & the shifting was back to normal.

The culprit:



I consulted DBHPian (& good friend) Leoshashi regarding this, he advised me to get the whole set replaced (since the small bush wasn't sold separately). So, went back to the FNG to get the part replaced. There was one more small issue that needed fixing as well, so I decided to get that looked at as well. There was slight misfiring/hunting on a cold start for 3-4 seconds (which only happened only once in a blue moon), after which everything would be back to normal. My doubt was on the HT cables (which according to the user manual needs replacement every 5 years). Swift G series uses an unique arrangement, there are 2 igniters & 2 HT cables. K series or F series (BS IV & beyond for F series) uses separate igniters for all the cylinders. Old G series engines (Zen, Esteem) uses a distributor based ignition system. I also bought a petrol filter since I hadn't replaced it yet under my ownership tenure.

The part numbers & price of the parts I bought (initially):



Gear shifting assembly (picture courtesy Boodmo):



The mechanic fitted the new cable shifting assembly & took a thorough TD. He told me that the clutch is on the lighter side but there's some amount of clutch slipping. He advised me to get the clutch overhauled as well. The slight clutch slippage was there from the beginning, I had to launch the car at 3000RPM (when the throttle body was faulty) for some 500Km, that must have greatly contributed to it. I gave him a go ahead to get the clutch replaced as well, Maruti sells the whole clutch assembly bundled together as the clutch kit. It consists of the clutch plate, pressure plate, release bearing & is generally cheaper than buying each part separately. The flywheel was found to be in good condition & hence wasn't replaced.

Outgoing clutch plate:



Outgoing pressure plate:



New clutch kit part number:



New clutch plate & pressure plate:



New release bearing:



They put the car on ramp, lowered the GB & removed the clutch. After that the mechanic gave me another bad news, there was some gear oil leakage, more specifically the gearbox input shaft oil seal had failed. According to my mechanic the oil leakage was the reason for the premature wear of the outgoing clutch. The oil seal costs only Rs. 21, but to access it you have to dismantle the whole GB. Dismantling a GB is a time consuming process, whole work took 2 days to be completed. The gearbox internals were thoroughly cleaned as well.

Gearbox input shaft oil seal part number & price:

24151M68K00 & Rs. 21.

The inside of the Gearbox:



Gearbox dismantled:







Then onto replacing the HT cables, my mechanic pulled them out & all 4 were drenched in engine oil. I had a mini heart attack as my first thought was that the engine is dying. Then it struck me that most probably the spark plug O rings have gone bad, recently DBHPian Saket77 faced this issue in his Zen. My friend's Zen also had the same problem few years back. I also did get this part replaced proactively in my ex Zen. Apparently it's a common problem in old G series engines. The O rings are priced cheaply at Rs. 21 per piece & thankfully were available at the nearest MGP store. I got them replaced, put the new HT cables that I had bought. Yesterday I again checked the HT cables, there is no trace of engine oil. So, it seems this issue is solved properly.

Engine oil in HT leads:





Worn out spark plug O rings:



New O ring fitted (this particular photo is of my ex Zen, but it's the same thing):



Part number of spark plug O ring (same part number for all G series engines):
11179M71C11
Price: Rs. 21

New HT cables:



Next day the whole GB work was completed, it was time for new gear oil. Maruti recommends 75W90 grade oil in API GL-4 specification for its 5 speed gearboxes. Now finding 75W90 gear oil in API GL-4 is a bit difficult, so in the end I had to go with 80W90 (API GL-4) gear oil. Gear oil filled, time for a TD, the gearshifting was really hard for the initial 1/2 km. After that the gearshifts smoothed out to how it was before. The new clutch was feather light (way lighter than my Omni's newish clutch) to press, there was no judder in 1st gear. I could notice a slight difference in acceleration, though nothing major here. I did notice a bigger difference in acceleration in our Ecosport D after it went through a clutch replacement few months back. Old Swift P is notorious for having a weak clutch, which needs frequent replacement. Even with the brand new clutch, I feel the clutch is a bit weak. You need to revv the engine a bit before releasing the clutch or the revvs fall below 1000RPM (& the whole car judders). Maruti OE clutch for the Swift P is of Valeo make. Everything fixed (or so I thought) & I went home happy (despite my wallet being lighter).

Gear oil I used:



Next day I noticed some oil on the floor near the GB area . I took the car out for a drive, put a newspaper beneath the engine bay & checked the next day. There was a slight leak, I was very sad as to what had gone wrong now. I went to the FNG & give him an earful. They put the car on ramp & checked thoroughly, the mechanic told me that the driveshaft oil seal is worn out & is leaking gear oil (very slowly). On the positive side, replacement of drive shaft oil seal didn't need the whole GB to be removed. The part was reasonably priced at Rs. 163. I replaced one more small thing as well, the old door stoppers had worn out & my front doors had lost its 2 stage opening mechanism. These are cheap at Rs. 130 per piece (I needed 2 of them) & replacement is a 10 minutes job. 2 stage opening of the door was back after fitting the new one. In the meantime the driveshaft oil seal was replaced as well. The next day I again checked for any traces of oil leak, thankfully there was no trace of oil leak.

Driveshaft oil seal:



Old worn out door stopper:



New door stopper:





I hope after these repairs there won't be any surprises for me in the near future. The total expenses including labor was around 11k, which is very reasonable for all the work done. The Swift has needed some maintenance, that too rather frequently. Though one hard pull in 2nd gear makes it all worthwhile, I guess that's what matters most in the end.

Ending this post with a WIP photo:

[saket77]

Good work Chiranjit. I think you’ve a competent FNG there. Good that you replaced all the oil seals in one go. And yes, I did replace the oil seals under the tappet cover. Shashi was instrumental in that as I wrote in the other thread. I haven’t driven much after that, may be max 100 kms; so I’ll check the leads after some time to ensure that oil leaking to the plug has stopped completely.

Regards.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

An update on some works done on the car:

Phew!

With your exhaustive set of replacements, I believe you almost have a brand new Swift now, atleast mechanically. You did an awesome job with the maintenance and glad you opted for the genuine spares.

On a lighter note, you should ask your FNG to put a bed for you there, given you spend so much time on a daily basis. I think you have been there almost daily, post lockdown.

Hope no more workshop visits for you, for any of your cars.

Regards,
Shashi

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

There was slight misfiring/hunting on a cold start for 3-4 seconds

Maruti recommends 75W90 grade oil in API GL-4 specification for its 5 speed gearboxes. Now finding 75W90 gear oil in API GL-4 is a bit difficult, so in the end I had to go with 80W90 (API GL-4) gear oil

You need to revv the engine a bit before releasing the clutch or the revvs fall below 1000RPM (& the whole car judders)

Whatever you've got done is fair for a 14 year old car, Babu.

From the symptoms described above, the occasional misfire is due to the HT coils seeing a lot of oil. The coils per se would have still been fine.

The K series Swift gear box now runs on 75W80 I think. You're fine with GL-4 but might face issues in winter with the 80W90. I am surprised how 75W90 wasn't available.

A little accelerator input will be needed while releasing the clutch pedal, but I don't see why the judder should be there.

A few more Qs / suggestions :

1. What is the condition of the spark plugs?
2. When you had the gearbox removed, did you check if the engine oil seal towards the GB was ok?
3. How clean is the throttle body?
4. Watch out for the radiator fan; at signs of any noise, please have the motor/ entire assembly replaced.

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by saket77

Good work Chiranjit. I think you’ve a competent FNG there. Good that you replaced all the oil seals in one go. And yes, I did replace the oil seals under the tappet cover. Shashi was instrumental in that as I wrote in the other thread.

Thank you saket77. The FNGs I visit (I visit 3 of them) are good when it comes to the Swift. But they do lack a bit of skill when it comes to fixing our 99 carburetor Omni. I am hoping replacement of the oil seals will permanently arrest the issue of oil in HT leads. This fix has worked perfectly in my friend's 03 Zen, his car has clocked around 20-30k km since the fix.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

With your exhaustive set of replacements, I believe you almost have a brand new Swift now, atleast mechanically. You did an awesome job with the maintenance and glad you opted for the genuine spares.

Thanks Leoshashi. I am hoping there are no more surprises for me in the near future. The car is still very fun to drive, I do enjoy every drive in the Swift.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

On a lighter note, you should ask your FNG to put a bed for you there, given you spend so much time on a daily basis. I think you have been there almost daily, post lockdown.

I ought to ask my FNG to put a bed for me, along with complementary food & beverages . I in fact visit 3 different FNGs so that the mechanics don't get bored of me . Omni & Swift goes to two different FNGs for repairs. The 3rd FNG (nearest to my home) is for oil change & minor jobs.

Yes, I kind of have been visiting a workshop everyday (for the last few days). Hopefully no more visits from now on. The Swift is fixed up properly, even the Omni is starting to behave properly.

Originally Posted by vigsom

From the symptoms described above, the occasional misfire is due to the HT coils seeing a lot of oil. The coils per se would have still been fine.

A little accelerator input will be needed while releasing the clutch pedal, but I don't see why the judder should be there.

Thanks vigsom. Yes, even my mechanic (& me) believe that the occasional misfire was due to oil in HT cables. Since I had already bought the new HT cables, I got them replaced.

Most petrol cars (especially older gen ones) need a bit of accelerator input before releasing the clutch for a smooth start. I am aware of this thing. What I wanted to convey was that the clutch on the Swift feels a bit weak, even compared to the clutch on the Omni. It's not a major issue as such, but since the Swift P (old G series one) is notorious for needing frequent clutch replacement, I stressed upon how I feel about the OE clutch.

Originally Posted by vigsom

A few more Qs / suggestions :

1. What is the condition of the spark plugs?
2. When you had the gearbox removed, did you check if the engine oil seal towards the GB was ok?
3. How clean is the throttle body?
4. Watch out for the radiator fan; at signs of any noise, please have the motor/ entire assembly replaced.

1. Spark plugs are in good condition, was replaced by the previous owner. They are of Denso make.
2. Yes, my mechanic did check the crankshaft oil seal when the GB was removed. It was found to be in good condition.
3. The throttle body is new, I replaced it in December 2018.
4. The radiator fan does kick in normally, sound is also normal as per me. Still, will keep an eye on it.

[petrolHead_1609]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

The Search

. What else but a good old Maruti 800 MPFi, I was especially interested in 5 speed variant. ]

Wonderful thread

It's bringing back a lot many memories to me.

1. Our M800 5S : you were right that it's something else compared to the normal M800, we had a lot of good times in it until we parted with it in 2012.

2. Even we went hunting for a new car in 2012, just like yours we had considered Punto, figo, i10 1.2. Due to absence of FASS in my hometown and my father's bias towards Hyundai, we went ahead with i10 Magna 1.2 and boy was that a good decision. We still have this car and it's running better than ever

3. Just like you, when I completed my 4th semester in June 2014, I started talking to my parents about having a 2 wheeler in college and it went on and off but never happened and I graduated in June 2016. ( despite the fact that I had earlier driven a gearless scooter for almost two years until 2012)

Until,

My job started in July 2016 and before 2 weeks of my first salary coming in, I started to look for bikes and took TD of some, as soon as my parents got to know of it, they said me stop looking for a bike and that they'll book a car for me as they didn't feel I would drive it responsibly and would always be prone to accident. (Even I was taken aback after hearing that as we are middle class family and my father is a professor by profession). Apparently he was pretty happy about my job despite the fact that I graduated from tier 3 college.
One thing led to another and I landed up with our 2012 i10 in Pune and he bought a 2016 grand i10.

About zen :
It took alot of time of yours and others to settle for that zen 98 car but I liked the fact that you sold it going against everyone and knowing the fact that you'd incur a few losses. It led to you owning a wonderful car.

The zen you acquired later on visibly looked way better than the earlier one, interior was great and the overall experience you had later, I am sure you fell short of words while writing this.

The two accidents your zen met, those are the proof of superior build quality Maruti had back in the day which led to them being so trustworthy, I wonder what would happen to current Marutis if they met such an accident! The first one with the bus must have had engine part lying on the ground and liquid spills too.

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by petrolHead_1609

Wonderful thread

1. Our M800 5S : you were right that it's something else compared to the normal M800, we had a lot of good times in it until we parted with it in 2012.

2. Even we went hunting for a new car in 2012, just like yours we had considered Punto, figo, i10 1.2. Due to absence of FASS in my hometown and my father's bias towards Hyundai, we went ahead with i10 Magna 1.2 and boy was that a good decision.

Thanks petrolHead_1609. Which year was your M800 5S from? Any photos? A friend of mine had a 00 M800 EX 5 Speed in Pheonix Red (same color as my Omni), I had some fun drives in that car during my teenage days. Sadly this car was sold in 2014, haven't driven a 5S M800 since then.

Hyundai i10 is a very good car, especially the first gen i10. My aunt (cum neighbor) has a 2010 i10 Magna 1.2 (pre facelift). The car is still running flawlessly, not much rattles as well, has done close to 80k km.

One thing led to another and I landed up with our 2012 i10 in Pune and he bought a 2016 grand i10.

Congratulations on the Grand i10. It's a very high quality car, everything about that car feels sophisticated (for its price range). The new Nios i10 is also very good, but doesn't have the classy exterior look of the old one.

The zen you acquired later on visibly looked way better than the earlier one, interior was great and the overall experience you had later, I am sure you fell short of words while writing this.

The two accidents your zen met, those are the proof of superior build quality Maruti had back in the day which led to them being so trustworthy.

My 01 Zen VXi was as good as an used car can get, the car was in awesome condition, both cosmetically & mechanically. Even now I sometimes do regret selling the Zen, maybe I should have kept her.

As for the build quality, I am not so sure about the crash worthiness of the chassis. But when it came to rattles & creaks, build quality was very good.

[petrolHead_1609]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

Thanks petrolHead_1609. Which year was your M800 5S from? Any photos? A friend of mine had a 00 M800 EX 5 Speed in Pheonix Red (same color as my Omni), I had some fun drives in that car during my teenage days. Sadly this car was sold in 2014, haven't driven a 5S M800 since then.

Hyundai i10 is a very good car, especially the first gen i10. My aunt (cum neighbor) has a 2010 i10 Magna 1.2 (pre facelift). The car is still running flawlessly, not much rattles as well, has done close to 80k km.
Congratulations on the Grand i10. It's a very high quality car, everything about that car feels sophisticated (for its price range). The new Nios i10 is also very good, but doesn't have the classy exterior look of the old one.

My 01 Zen VXi was as good as an used car can get, the car was in awesome condition, both cosmetically & mechanically. Even now I sometimes do regret selling the Zen, maybe I should have kept her.

Ours was a 2000 M800 5S, this particular one was without AC. I only got to drive it for a month or so, as I had turned the legal age just before we were about to sell it. This pic is from our last diwali with M800.



I do agree that Hyundai i10 is a very good car. So much so that, when we went looking for another car in 2016, we had a very small budget, I started from Kwid 800 all the way upto Tiago which was recently launched then. My father didn't seem to like any, in the end he just said, let's put another 80k or so and stick to hyundai. That's how we ended up with Grand i10 sportz. I wanted him to own the better car and took i10 with me.
After having it in Pune for almost an year and half, my father once called up and said he misses this i10 and would want to swap our cars for sometime. Next weekend I drove down to my hometown and brought grand i10 with me to Pune. On the way back, I was just taken aback by the highway manners of it. Six months passed by and now I said let's get to our rides back again. Brought back i10 to Pune in June 2018 and never entertained any swaps after that. I so like this particular one. In 8 years, this has only clocked 55xxx on odo. (70% of which was done post it's arrival in Pune)

We do regret selling of M800 5S, like you regret selling zen but then we say they had done their part and it's about time.
I wonder what would happen when time comes to part with 2012 i10, that's the car I've driven the most, technically, my first car, so many trips in it. It would be difficult. In 2018, our neighbor was willing to buy our i10 for 3.15L (a pretty nice deal) but somehow we couldn't convince ourselves to do so, right now it's been decided to not sell it until December 2021.

[Anuj 6227]

Hi All,

For the past few days, I am facing a peculiar issue with my 2008 petrol Swift Dzire, it makes a squeaking noise for 4-5 seconds whenever, I switch on the AC + headlights + fog lights + music system, reducing any one activity won't make the noise. It happens only on cold engine and never occurs again when the engine is hot, leave the engine for 6 - 8 hours then the squeak returns (after putting all load on the engine as before) for that short period of time.

Everything else is normal no vibration, no starting issue, nothing out of ordinary.
Any suggestions/remedies/reasons are welcome.

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by Anuj 6227

For the past few days, I am facing a peculiar issue with my 2008 petrol Swift Dzire, it makes a squeaking noise for 4-5 seconds whenever, I switch on the AC + headlights + fog lights + music system, reducing any one activity won't make the noise. It happens only on cold engine and never occurs again when the engine is hot.

I think the squeaking noise (when you turn on the AC) is from the AC Compressor V belt (AC belt in mechanic language). I suggest you get it looked at & if needed replace it. If the AC belt is new, then it needs to be adjusted properly. Also take a look at the water pump belt while you are at it (fan belt in mechanic language). If you haven't replaced them since 2008, I would suggest replacing them ASAP.

Part number for water pump belt:
17521M86560
Price: Rs. 170.

Part number for AC Compressor V belt:
95141M75J00
Price: Rs. 410.

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

If you haven't replaced them since 2008, I would suggest replacing them ASAP.

+1 to that.

I experienced this squeaking from 2017 in my 2007 Grand Vitara, and the noise would initially disappear after a few secs. of the engine starting up, while by 2019, the noise would remain on for at least 5 mins; quite an embarrassment.

I got the drive belt changed last year, which is 11.5 years from when the car was new.

[Anuj 6227]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

I think the squeaking noise (when you turn on the AC) is from the AC Compressor V belt (AC belt in mechanic language). I suggest you get it looked at & if needed replace it. If the AC belt is new, then it needs to be adjusted properly. Also take a look at the water pump belt while you are at it (fan belt in mechanic language). If you haven't replaced them since 2008, I would suggest replacing them ASAP.

Part number for water pump belt:
17521M86560
Price: Rs. 170.

Part number for AC Compressor V belt:
95141M75J00
Price: Rs. 410.

Originally Posted by vigsom

+1 to that.

I experienced this squeaking from 2017 in my 2007 Grand Vitara, and the noise would initially disappear after a few secs. of the engine starting up, while by 2019, the noise would remain on for at least 5 mins; quite an embarrassment.

I got the drive belt changed last year, which is 11.5 years from when the car was new.

I got the the timing + ac + water pump belt changed at MASS last year.

The noise does not come while starting the engine or switching on the AC, it only appears when I put full load (AC + headlights + fog lights + music system) on engine/alternator, and that to when the engine is cold. Although it's not a big issue (I hope) but it's bothering me.

I ordered the following parts from Boodmo.com after checking their compatibility from the website.

Belt water pump 17521M75M00

V Belt 95141M75J00

Chiranjitp suggested part number 17521M86560 for water pump belt, so can this be the reason for squeak as it is not the correct part or the belt I used is also correct ?

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by Anuj 6227

I ordered the following parts from Boodmo.com after checking their compatibility from the website.

Belt water pump 17521M75M00

Chiranjitp suggested part number 17521M86560 for water pump belt, so can this be the reason for squeak as it is not the correct part or the belt I used is also correct ?

There are two types of belts used in Swift/Dzire G13B. They may have different part numbers but for two parts to be absolutely interchangeable, they need to have same root part number. So going by that classification, there are two types:

1. Which come under Root part number 17521-86500, type 4PK815, all the part numbers mentioned below are interchangeable:
-17521-86500
-17521M75M00
-17521M75M10
-17521M86500
-17521M86520

2. Which come under Root part number 17521M86530, type 4PK827, all the part numbers mentioned below are interchangeable:
-17521M86530
-17521M86560

First make sure which type of Belt your car needs, then buy accordingly. Do you have pic of the original belt which came out? That will have part number and belt type printed on its top surface.

Regards,
Shashi

[Anuj 6227]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

There are two types of belts used in Swift/Dzire G13B. They may have different part numbers but for two parts to be absolutely interchangeable, they need to have same root part number. So going by that classification, there are two types:

1. Which come under Root part number 17521-86500, type 4PK815, all the part numbers mentioned below are interchangeable:
-17521-86500
-17521M75M00
-17521M75M10
-17521M86500
-17521M86520

2. Which come under Root part number 17521M86530, type 4PK827, all the part numbers mentioned below are interchangeable:
-17521M86530
-17521M86560

First make sure which type of Belt your car needs, then buy accordingly. Do you have pic of the original belt which came out? That will have part number and belt type printed on its top surface.

Regards,
Shashi

Unfortunately I don't have the old belt, but I got it changed from MASS and they did not point out anything, maybe they are also not as well informed.
Anyways should I be concerned if by any chance the belt I am using is wrong and can it damage the engine or any of its components ?

Thanks

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by Anuj 6227

Unfortunately I don't have the old belt, but I got it changed from MASS and they did not point out anything, maybe they are also not as well informed.
Anyways should I be concerned if by any chance the belt I am using is wrong and can it damage the engine or any of its components ?

Thanks

First ask MASS to check the source of sound, with special focus on belt. Once it's established that belt is the culprit then try swapping with other part and see if it solves the issue.

It's not a big secret that Dzire G13B used two types of belts, with a cutoff date, it should be mentioned in the parts manual. So it's carelessness of MASS, more than ignorance IMHO.

Regards,
Shashi