[Kosfactor]

Thank you.

It takes courage to spend money, get a lemon and then write down the experience for other's benefit. The used car market eclipsing the new car market in India as well as a used car being the first car for most car buyers , it is no doubt that there are plenty of people in our forum itself who would have got a sour deal but would wish to keep quiet about it for various reasons.

I have been through a few stories in my friend's circles where someone influential in their life has forced them to pick up a used car out of familiarity, "I've known them for years" sort of statements that seal the deal. The basket cases often give misery to the poor chap who got it afterwards. When I have visited a few sellers I have heard statements like "Nothing has been changed on this car, all original" , how is that possible if they have followed scheduled maintenance - Skip. Car maintenance for many such owners is limited to oil change, every thing else is optional according to them and then the poor chap who buy it after 10 years and 40K kms now have to change the entire set of parts supposed to be changed over its life time.

One thing though about carb engines, they do not have any starting trouble if maintained well. They start in the first crank if you follow the instructions as per the manual and can drive off immediately. I do not remember any special maintenance for them apart from the occasional spray of carb cleaner, adjusting some screws on them. Carb engines have very good throttle response.

I have used a jelly bean zen for sometime back in those days, it's AC was very good, and the gear ratios were short, fun on the hills and city traffic.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

As for the strainer, I intend to replace it every alternate service.

That doesn't make sense. Replacing the oil filter is good enough to keep the oil flowing - the strainer won't get clogged before the oil filter does!

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

The front parking sensors were not in working condition when I got the car, I finally got them removed during replacement of the front bumper. The rear sensors are working perfectly fine though, I especially like the tiny display where distance (along with direction) to the object is shown in meters.

Here is a photo of the parking sensor display in action:

Ah - I'd forgotten about those. Brought a smile to my face, remembering one of the very few after-market fitments on any of my cars. The sensors made life so much easier when parking in really tight spaces.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

That doesn't make sense. Replacing the oil filter is good enough to keep the oil flowing - the strainer won't get clogged before the oil filter does!

Indeed. ChiranjitP did well by replacing the strainer once, but every alternate service would surely be an overkill. Using good quality oil and replacing oil and filter proactively will be more than enough.

Regards,
Shashi

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by WasherNut0402

Such a nice detailed write up. I wonder how long it took you to make this. Nice work brother

Thanks WasherNut0402. I completed the thread in 2 weeks time, the lock-down helped, otherwise it would have taken longer to complete this thread.

Originally Posted by blackwasp

Lovely thread Chiranjit!
I picked up my 800 in Feb 2019. The car has been nothing but fun. Of course the AC is bad and the rear doors squeak when opened, but it gets the job done.

Thanks blackwasp. The M800 is a legend, it will keep on going no matter what. Even if something goes wrong, it is very cheap to fix. My uncle had a 09 M800 AC (sold last year), that car had a good AC. Of course it was not as powerful as a modern car's AC, but not weak as well. Maybe you ought to do a full AC service, the cooling coil especially is prone to getting clogged up (no AC filter in M800).

Originally Posted by blackwasp

I also picked up a Palio 1.6 for the same amount as I quoted above, but have spent and equal amount on top of it on tyres and basic maintenance. This will be a project car and I'm in no hurry to get her ready. Sharing a pic of each.

Congrats on the Palio, she looks to be in perfect shape. I have a soft corner for the Palio since my childhood. During the time I was looking to sell the Zen & buy the Swift, I came across a Palio S10 for sale (#004). I couldn't stop myself from checking out the car, the car was in good condition mechanically, though cosmetically she was in a bad state, the car was modified very badly (alloys were painted green ). Still it was nothing that couldn't be fixed, the body was otherwise clean with no rust.

I had a thorough discussion with my parents regarding buying the Palio S10, they weren't keen on another FIAT after our Punto experience. I finally decided to let go off the deal with a heavy heart, mainly due to lack of availability of spare parts & skilled mechanic (as in Palio expert). I intentionally left this part out of the thread, as it was a touchy topic for me. Somehow my heart still beats for a FIAT, hopefully someday I will be able to buy a Palio 1.6 as a project car.

The tag number of that Palio S10:

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

It takes courage to spend money, get a lemon and then write down the experience for other's benefit. The used car market eclipsing the new car market in India as well as a used car being the first car for most car buyers , it is no doubt that there are plenty of people in our forum itself who would have got a sour deal but would wish to keep quiet about it for various reasons.

Thanks Kosfactor. Except the white Zen, I don't consider any of my cars as lemons. Since I didn't like the white Zen, I sold her within one month. As for the Swift needing replacement of some parts, it is kind of normal for a car of that age & mileage. I replaced some parts proactively since I believe in preventive maintenance. I still take these old cars (Zen & Swift both) on long highway drives, so reliability is of utmost importance to me.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

I have been through a few stories in my friend's circles where someone influential in their life has forced them to pick up a used car out of familiarity, "I've known them for years" sort of statements that seal the deal. The basket cases often give misery to the poor chap who got it afterwards.

Let me clear the air on this one, with regards to my Swift deal. I am sure everyone is aware that Dbhpian Leoshashi connected me with the seller (DBhpian SSTraveller). Yup, he did connect me with SSda, but he never told me to buy a car without seeing her first. In fact he was strictly against me buying the Swift without taking a proper look. It was solely my decision to buy the Swift without taking a proper look.

Now coming to the Swift, I don't for a moment think that I got a bad deal, despite the car needing some maintenance. The repairs that I have done, is normal for a car of that age & mileage. If at any point of time, I would have felt that I got a bad deal or the car was defective, I would have sold the car instantly like my 98 Zen.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

One thing though about carb engines, they do not have any starting trouble if maintained well. They start in the first crank if you follow the instructions as per the manual and can drive off immediately. I do not remember any special maintenance for them apart from the occasional spray of carb cleaner, adjusting some screws on them. Carb engines have very good throttle response.

I agree that carburetor engines are reliable if proper maintenance is done, but the catch here is proper maintenance. We have a carburetor car since the last 21 years, our 99 OMNI (the one on my avatar). The issue with maintaining her (especially in the last 6-7 years) has been lack of skilled mechanics in Guwahati, one who can work on a carburetor engine. The OE carburetor was opened & adjusted many times over the years, though not to my satisfaction. In 2018, I finally put a new MGP Mikuni carburetor in the Omni & since then, have never let any mechanic touch the air/ fuel screw. Even then we had to set the idle RPM & dwell angle, for that we need a special tool called the dwell meter. Today only one or two garage have this tool in Guwahati. All of these things had left me not wanting a carburetor engine equipped car, MPFi cars don't suffer from these kind of issues.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

That doesn't make sense. Replacing the oil filter is good enough to keep the oil flowing - the strainer won't get clogged before the oil filter does!

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Indeed. ChiranjitP did well by replacing the strainer once, but every alternate service would surely be an overkill. Using good quality oil and replacing oil and filter proactively will be more than enough.

If you guys say so, I will skip replacing the oil pump strainer for now. I guess timely oil & filter change will be sufficient.

[nikhilarni]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

Attachment 1984682

Prologue

The year was 2015, I was home for my semester break after the 4th semester examinations were over (i.e half way point of my B.tech life). Like every (almost every) college going guy I wanted a vehicle for myself, more specifically a two wheeler. I wanted something simple & cheap, a gearless scooter was my first choice.

So, my assignment for that semester break was to somehow convince my parents on buying me a scooter. Convincing my parents was no easy task,
they were (initially) strict against me riding a 2 wheeler, that too in a different city without them being around.

Hi Chiranjitp

Nicely written. I must say, the opening lines brought a big smile to me. I had a similar story, just that it was slight over a decade earlier than yours.

My parents just did not budge at all for me to get a two wheeler and I never got one.

On a side note, in my third year vacations, I went back home and and told my dad that it was either N ( being the initial of my first name ) for a Nike or a Nokia ( used 3310 probably ), to which my dad, in an absolutely nonchalant manner replied, " Its N for Nothing ! "

Looking back, we still laugh about this.

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by nikhilarni

Nicely written. I must say, the opening lines brought a big smile to me. I had a similar story, just that it was slight over a decade earlier than yours.

My parents just did not budge at all for me to get a two wheeler and I never got one.

Thanks nikhilarni. I believe most college going guys (especially ones into cars, bikes) want to have a vehicle of their own. Some get their own vehicle, while some don't. When I think about it now, I could have done without a car of my own in college. But back then, the thought process was different .

[chiranjitp]

DIY - Changing the center console garnish

I had bought the center console garnish of the Swift few months back, but hadn't gotten it fitted due to my laziness. Finally got it fitted today (Lockdown helped), it's a very simple DIY, took a newbie like me only 10 minutes to complete the process. There was nothing wrong with the old trim cosmetically, except the fact that some clips/locks were broken. This meant that it rattled a bit on bad roads & since the new part was cheap at Rs. 145, I decided to get it replaced.

First we need to remove the garnish from its place, a slight pull is enough to take it out. The next step is to remove the hazard switch coupler, it's a simple push type clip.

Garnish removed from its place:



Hazard switch coupler:



Next we have to remove the head unit casing (which houses the head unit). The head unit casing is fixed to the center console garnish with 4 screws. Before working on the head unit casing, one needs to remove the antenna & power cable from the HU. Now after removing the head unit casing we can finally remove the center console garnish.

Head unit casing attached to the garnish:



Head unit casing removed:



Next remove the AC vents & hazard switch from the old garnish, these two parts will come out easily with a light pull. Fit the AC vents & hazard switch in the new garnish. Then carefully put the head unit casing in the new garnish, tighten the 4 screws, plug the antenna & power cable back in the HU. Finally put back the hazard switch coupler & fit the center console garnish in its place. A slight tap at the edges is recommended to make sure that all the clips have locked properly.

AC vents removed from the garnish:



New centre console garnish in place:



Part number of center console garnish:

[chiranjitp]

A DIY that's not related to this thread, but inspired by it

Back in 2012, we bought our first modern car, a FIAT Punto. It had many more features than our 99 Omni. Among all these features, I was very fond of the Day/Night IRVM in the Punto. It made night driving so easy, even in city. Omni didn't get this feature & so the only way to drive her at night was to turn the IRVM away from line of sight, which was sad considering the view from Omni's IRVM is very good (unlike modern cars). I always felt that such an important & cheap feature should be made standard in all cars, which I believe is the case in developed countries. AFAIK even export variant of M800 got this feature (along with rear wash & wipe). In India even today, this simple & useful feature is missing in mid variants of many cars.

In 2015 I bought my first Zen, the 98 Zen MH410. It didn't get much features, but it got the day/night IRVM. My 01 Zen VXi of course had this feature, made night driving so much easier. I always wondered if somehow I could retrofit a Day/Night IRVM in the Omni.

Fast forward to March 2020, I am proof reading this thread & going over each photo carefully. Then suddenly it struck me, that Zen IRVM mounting looks similar to the one on the Omni. I was aware that Leoshashi had fitted the ZEN IRVM in his M800, so downloaded the photo & compared with my Omni's IRVM. It looked like an exact fit, so pinged Leoshashi to cross verify it. After going through the part numbers for both the cars, he told me that the current part number that's open for sale is same for Omni & M800. So, by that logic the Zen IRVM should be a direct fit in my Omni. To be fully sure, I asked my friend to send closeup photos of his 03 Zen's IRVM. I compared all the photos & all the IRVMs seemed to be interchangeable. I felt very stupid at that point of time, I had my Zen for 2.5 years & yet I couldn't notice that the IRVM on that car was same as my Omni's IRVM .

Then a few days later while reversing the Swift, I noticed something strange. The IRVM on my Swift looked same as well . Since both the Swift & Omni were together, I compared the mounting points of the IRVMs, it was exactly same. I felt even more stupid now, I had to get the IRVM ASAP. So, called the nearest MGP store for the Swift IRVM, to which he told me the part isn't currently available. Boodmo came to rescue, ordered the Zen IRVM immediately. I choose the Zen IRVM over the Swift IRVM as it was black in colour (Swift one is grey), my Omni's original IRVM was black in color. A trivia - Even Maruti XL6's IRVM is same as my Swift, so will fit in the Omni as well. Part sharing is something that Maruti is truly the master of.

The parcel arrived 2 days back, I got it fitted yesterday. It was a simple 5 minutes DIY. Everything fit perfectly in place, the IRVM is mounted on the body via 2 screws. The new IRVM is slightly bigger in size & thickness, feels more premium than the OE one. So, finally I can drive the Omni peacefully at night (of course that will be possible when life becomes normal again). A modification that happened only because of this thread, otherwise it would have taken me another 5 years to realize the similarity.

IRVM of my friend's 03 Zen LX:



06 Swift OE IRVM:



1999 Omni's OE IRVM (I suppose same as T1 M800):





Mounting arrangement of the OE IRVM (the IRVM needs to be turned & pulled out from the mounting):



New mounting arrangement:



New IRVM in place:





View from the IRVM:



Part number of Zen VXi IRVM:



Part number of Swift IRVM:

84703M75J12-6GS

Price- Rs. 511

84781M75J00-6GS (this is the part number for the cap, which has a separate part number here)

Price- Rs. 8

[chiranjitp]

Battery replacement

Few days back I had to get the battery of the Swift replaced, the old one was getting weak (the lockdown must have accelerated the process). The symptom shown was similar to the Zen (when it needed a new battery), cold starting was perfect w.o any issue. Only when the engine was hot & radiator fan had kicked in (Radiator fan will kick in accessories mode if the engine runs too hot), the cranking would be a bit tired. I was getting this symptom randomly over the last 6 months or so, then last week the engine didn't start at all. Luckily it started after I let the engine cool down for 5-10 minutes (i.e radiator fan was completely off).

I had to make a 600km round trip the next day & the last thing I wanted (during lockdown) was to have a flat battery. So, decided to get the battery replaced. Since it was evening by that time & hence only a few battery stores were open, I had to go with an Exide battery (otherwise would have preferred an Amaron one). Most Maruti petrol cars (from M800 to Ciaz) need a 35AH battery, last time for the Zen I went with the cheapest battery (one year warranty) for 2.5k (after exchanging the old battery). Though this time the store owner recommended me to go for the slightly costlier one as the cheap one wasn't recommended for the likes of Swift (i.e a modern car with more electrical load). I don't know how much of that is true since the AH rating is same for both the batteries, only the warranty & pricing is different.

The battery I finally fitted cost me 3.3k after exchanging the old battery, it comes with 4 years warranty. The cranking was faster with the new battery & even with all the accessories switched on (not recommended), the engine fired up without any issue. The outgoing battery was around 4 years old & was of Amaron make, 4 years life is strictly average for a petrol car battery in my opinion. The Omni's battery is from 2013 & still is in good health.

Next day I completed the 600km round trip without any issue, the Swift performed flawlessly. Only irritant was the ever present rattles on bad roads , to negate that (to a certain extent) I generally turn up the music volume. The car returned an average fuel efficiency of 16.3 kmpl (calculated via tankful to tankful method).

The new battery:





Beautiful highways of Assam (this was near Kaziranga National Park):





The final odometer reading:

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

Most Maruti petrol cars (from M800 to Ciaz) need a 35AH battery, last time for the Zen I went with the cheapest battery (one year warranty) for 2.5k (after exchanging the old battery). Though this time the store owner recommended me to go for the slightly costlier one as the cheap one wasn't recommended for the likes of Swift (i.e a modern car with more electrical load). I don't know how much of that is true since the AH rating is same for both the batteries, only the warranty & pricing is different.

If load was a concern then it hardly makes a difference as long as you stay in same CCA and Ah figure.

There may be some design differences at max, but you largely end up paying for warranty.

Baring those batteries which are supplied to OEMs, I have seen cheaper Amaron Fresh batteries which cost barely 2200 rupees for 35Ah last as much as the expensive Flo or Pro ones.

Check out the CCA and Ah ratings of Cabby(least warranty and costs around 2500) and Epic series of Exide(Most warranty and costs around 5500):





For me, I am not getting an expensive battery from now on. Give me an Amaron with old school caps to top up distilled water, and I don't need any warranty.

Regards,
Shashi

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

Everything fit perfectly in place, the IRVM is mounted on the body via 2 screws.

Just a word of caution. I might be wrong here, but when I look at the original mount and the way the new one is mounted I see a difference. The original appears to have a simple lock/click in mechanism. Which is actually a safety feature. If during an accident the driver or passenger bangs his/her head against the mirror it will simply pop out. You can just pop it back in. Not sure about India, but in most countries this a standard safety requirement.

Your new version seems to mounted rigidly/fixed. So it is potentially a pretty dangerous fixture in your car.

Maybe I am wrong, but you might want to check.

Jeroen

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Just a word of caution. I might be wrong here, but when I look at the original mount and the way the new one is mounted I see a difference. The original appears to have a simple lock/click in mechanism. Which is actually a safety feature. If during an accident the driver or passenger bangs his/her head against the mirror it will simply pop out. You can just pop it back in. Not sure about India, but in most countries this a standard safety requirement.

Your new version seems to mounted rigidly/fixed. So it is potentially a pretty dangerous fixture in your car.

Maybe I am wrong, but you might want to check.

Jeroen

Yes the new one is rigidly fixed. Actually in Older versions of Maruti 800 and Omni, rotate to remove type of IRVM was there. A bracket was in between which enabled this, and the bracket itself was bolted to the body using two screws.

In later models, Maruti removed that middle bracket and now they directly mount the mirror.

Thanks for explaining that this was a safety feature. Also the clips were fragile and any kind of impact broke the clips and the mirror used to fall. Now I think this was by design.

Regards,
Shashi

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Yes the new one is rigidly fixed. Actually in Older versions of Maruti 800 and Omni, rotate to remove type of IRVM was there. A bracket was in between which enabled this, and the bracket itself was bolted to the body using two screws.

Check the base of the old, rotating one, you might find it had a spring there. So for easy mounting/removal you would rotate, but if it got hit hard it would just pop out.

Jeroen

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Check the base of the old, rotating one, you might find it had a spring there. So for easy mounting/removal you would rotate, but if it got hit hard it would just pop out.

Jeroen

Actually my car always had the screw mounted mechanism right from factory. But have asked BHPian ChiranjitP to post pics of his old IRVM base if possible.

Regards,
Shashi

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Just a word of caution. I might be wrong here, but when I look at the original mount and the way the new one is mounted I see a difference. The original appears to have a simple lock/click in mechanism. Which is actually a safety feature.

Thanks for the information, I could have never imagined that a IRVM might have a safety feature.

As for the IRVM in question here, later model Omnis (AFAIK from 2005) came with the new design IRVM. The older IRVM is now discontinued, only option is to go for the new design IRVM (whether plain mirror or prismatic).

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Check the base of the old, rotating one, you might find it had a spring there. So for easy mounting/removal you would rotate, but if it got hit hard it would just pop out.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Actually my car always had the screw mounted mechanism right from factory. But have asked BHPian ChiranjitP to post pics of his old IRVM base if possible.

I checked the base of the old IRVM, it doesn't seem to have any spring. The locking mechanism is via a three point rubber lock.

Here are the photos (I broke one of the locks while removing the IRVM ):