Diff between Speed diesel, Xtra premium diesel and regular diesel

mmmjgm · 13th June 2008, 21:19

Hi All,

In a high pressure common rail diesel engine there are multiple injections at 1600 bar.

Now the question of anti clogging agents in the diesel does not arise, as at this pressure levels there is nothing left to clog. Off topic but relevant - never ever attempt to dissassemble your FIP or common rail (pipe like thing connecting your injectors) as this contains diesel under very high pressure.

The pressure levels in the injectors is enough to keep the injectors clean and with multiple injection cycles - pre pilot, pilot, and main injection cycles in a CRDI diesel engine its automatically kept clean.

Secondly the anti clogging agents also take up volume, in essence you are getting lesser cetane bearing fuel as there are also these pre mixed chemicals coming in.

Small example - regular diesel (chemical composition 99.99% diesel).
Additive mixed diesel (97.99% diesel 2 % additives etc).

Also premium diesel users - how do you know without a knock sensor the engine runs smoother ? Is there a different frequency to the combustion cycle. As far as I know diesel is burnt due to high compression and the fuel explodes due to the compression created within the cylinder at nearby TDC.

Last but not the least, had an indica which suffered premature FIP failure (BSII - non dicor) indirect injection type due to usage of only premium fuels and diesel additives. FIP failed at 80k kilometers. Cost for new FIP - 22k + labour and caliberation of injectors.

Premature failure means that the seals within the FIP fail to adequately prevent extra diesel from flowing past, this generally happens due to a sustained chemical imbalance in the fuel. The BS II (indirect injection ) pumps were made without the idea of extra elements present in the fuel.

Innova within the family - 1.6 lakh kilometers covered, no problems so far, use regular diesel also poor quality diesel due to travel in rural areas. However this is a CRDi model engine.

What's the advantage ? To the fuel companies and the dealer, dealer gets a rupee per litre of premium diesel sold. Fuel companies get extra revenue from premium diesel sales. Cover their advertisement costs etc etc.

IF your car user's manual states do not use premium diesels, its for a reason.

Hope the gyan helps.

Cheers

MMM

kikuma25 · 14th June 2008, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu

Interesting to know and did it reduce the clatter ??

No, the clatter has progressive become worse. Conclusion: The clatter has nothing to do with diesel quality or type.

dadu · 17th June 2008, 13:18

No car manufacturer in India Officially states "Not to use premium".

They state the "IS standards" which both the fuel's meet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmmjgm

IF your car user's manual states do not use premium diesels, its for a reason.

I also realized that a lot of info you posted is a misconception based on just generic logic, inlcuding below. The Cetane number is also defined as per the IS standards in the fuel policy and these Oil companies meet them.

The engine also has knock and Oxygen sensors to regulate the timings and I am talking about the CRDI engines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmmjgm

Secondly the anti clogging agents also take up volume, in essence you are getting lesser cetane bearing fuel as there are also these pre mixed chemicals coming in.

The "gyan" you have posted is definitely not correct and is an "Agyan"

mmmjgm · 17th June 2008, 16:54

Dadu,

I do not agree to the above being called agyaan, if you have a litre of diesel both regular and premium, you will have an additional quantity of additives over and above regular diesel present in the premium. This is a proven fact, as well as being dealers for a petroleum PSU major we have the literature from the manufacturer.

Secondly, no one is stating there is an official statement against the use of premium diesels.

Third and the most important, 3 auto dealers, one of which are family state that there has been a gradual deterioration of seals present in fuel injection pumps (BS II and older). These seals regulate the flow of diesel within the pump and into the injectors.

My question was, how does one rationalise by numbers whether the engine runs smoother or rough ?

My earlier post was in terms of the following

1) usage of premium fuels in my personal cars. How did the indica suffer premature failure.
2) Dealer's information shared on the use of premium fuels - service histories.
3) Historic sales data and our regular customers switching over to regular diesel after using premium fuels for a long time.

The last point is pertinent as we stand to loose business and customers as the complain of bad fuel quality sold to them.

PM me if you wish, I can share the facts. There is always the debate that non CRDi would sustain premium diesel usage.

cheers

MMM

mac_guy555 · 6th August 2008, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodeo

I find myself odd person out.My experience is completely different. I have been using HiSpeed but find no difference in smoothness. Infact i feel my FE has gone down. My car gives best FE with BP regular diesel...

Hi everyone, being a car lover like you all I notice even the minutest changes in my car's running and performance.
I have been using HP TurboJet for 9K kms. from a company pump and one fine day I went to fill 'er up and there was no stock of TurboJet. So I just had my Verna Diesel tank up with regular and voila

I see a performance change in the running and the mileage increased in city running to 14.45 from a measly 13.25 - 13.5 in city.

Think its just simply wiser to fill regular diesel from a company pump !!!

barcode · 7th August 2008, 19:49

With a 900km Old Verna these are the following things I noticed trying BP Premium Diesel (HiSpeed)...

No Difference in Mileage for me... But what I liked was that the fact that I could slot the Car into 4th gear at around 50-55kms which I couldn't do with normal petrol. I think the pic-up improves and there is a little extra power generated at lower RPM... I could be wrong, but thats what I felt.

One issue with premium diesel - I couldn't feel the turbo kicking in at 1700rpm as the car gathers lots of power by then and the "turbo feel" gets nullified.

Dr.Sumit Bhatti · 9th March 2009, 03:28

Please refer to the explanation given in detail in the threadhttp://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ty-diesel.html

rubicon · 5th April 2009, 22:53

Next time you pay Rs 2 extra per litre to tank up on branded petrol, you are probably being taken for a ride. For, the state-run oil marketing companies have failed to back up their claim of this fuel giving higher mileage and better engine performance before the Monopolies and Restrictive Trade Practices Commission (MRTPC).

Not just that, the oil companies have also been unable to explain how they have reached the price mechanism in case of branded fuel. MRTPC had asked the companies to "clarify the quantitive difference between normal fuel and branded fuel alongwith supportive documents.''

Read more here... Does branded petrol really give you that extra mile? - India Business - Business - The Times of India

nitinbose · 2nd April 2010, 08:09

I'd taken delivery of an Innova VX yesterday.
The dealer tells me NOT to fill from SHELL fuel stations as the diesel from SHELL is not good for the INNOVA and results in black smoke. They ask me to fuel from other normal fuel stations.
I'm aware of the superior quality of diesel/petrol sold at shell and the accuracy in quantity, so I really prefer SHELL diesel.
Please advice me if the dealer is telling the truth and there are such reports on Innova giving black smoke if fuelled from SHELL fuel stations.

Innova users, please share your views.

regards,

Nitin.

mithun · 2nd April 2010, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitinbose

I'd taken delivery of an Innova VX yesterday.
The dealer tells me NOT to fill from SHELL fuel stations as the diesel from SHELL is not good for the INNOVA and results in black smoke. They ask me to fuel from other normal fuel stations.
I'm aware of the superior quality of diesel/petrol sold at shell and the accuracy in quantity, so I really prefer SHELL diesel.
Please advice me if the dealer is telling the truth and there are such reports on Innova giving black smoke if fuelled from SHELL fuel stations.

Innova users, please share your views.

regards,

Nitin.

Just fill normal diesel from Shell or any other dealer ! No need to worry !

ecclipse78 · 2nd April 2010, 12:56

As far as I know Shell only sells one type of diesel - regular.

The BMW guys in Chennai, strongly recommend Shell over other brands and in fact swear by it !!

raj_srini · 11th June 2011, 14:12

I do not know enough to comment on normal vs extra premium diesel, but my experience with normal vs extra premium petrol tilts me in favour of Speed. I have been using Speed petrol for over 7 years now and can comfortably say that there is a clear improvement in mileage and engine performance.

Will the results be the same for diesel, I do not know. I drive an Opel Corsa 1.4GSI petrol 2003 version.

aks2010 · 10th July 2011, 13:02

Is it true that the use of premium diesel in Swift causes it to emit thick black smoke?

visweshkalambur · 19th January 2012, 18:44

I am having a confusion. I purchased an Optra Magnum 2.0 and there is a sticker in the car saying, 'Use Premium Diesel for best results'. Whereas, the dealer has asked me to use only regular diesel.

Is it advisable to use premium diesel in this case where the manufacturer has infact asked to use it for best results? Or should i still stick to the regular diesel? Availability of premium diesel in most of the places I travel is not an issue though.

Please advise. Thanks.

penlax · 7th March 2012, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by visweshkalambur

I am having a confusion. I purchased an Optra Magnum 2.0 and there is a sticker in the car saying, 'Use Premium Diesel for best results'. Whereas, the dealer has asked me to use only regular diesel.

Is it advisable to use premium diesel in this case where the manufacturer has infact asked to use it for best results? Or should i still stick to the regular diesel? Availability of premium diesel in most of the places I travel is not an issue though.

Please advise. Thanks.

The user manual of my Vento 2012 also asks us to "use premium fuel for best results"!!

This seems to be a change from where manufacturers and their service personnel asked us to use standard fuel and not premium fuels.

From all the experiences listed in this thread, I guess it is better to use standard fuel instead of the premium!

13th June 2008, 21:19	#76
mmmjgm BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: BOM, PNQ, DXB Posts: 398 Thanked: 30 Times	Hi All, In a high pressure common rail diesel engine there are multiple injections at 1600 bar. Now the question of anti clogging agents in the diesel does not arise, as at this pressure levels there is nothing left to clog. Off topic but relevant - never ever attempt to dissassemble your FIP or common rail (pipe like thing connecting your injectors) as this contains diesel under very high pressure. The pressure levels in the injectors is enough to keep the injectors clean and with multiple injection cycles - pre pilot, pilot, and main injection cycles in a CRDI diesel engine its automatically kept clean. Secondly the anti clogging agents also take up volume, in essence you are getting lesser cetane bearing fuel as there are also these pre mixed chemicals coming in. Small example - regular diesel (chemical composition 99.99% diesel). Additive mixed diesel (97.99% diesel 2 % additives etc). Also premium diesel users - how do you know without a knock sensor the engine runs smoother ? Is there a different frequency to the combustion cycle. As far as I know diesel is burnt due to high compression and the fuel explodes due to the compression created within the cylinder at nearby TDC. Last but not the least, had an indica which suffered premature FIP failure (BSII - non dicor) indirect injection type due to usage of only premium fuels and diesel additives. FIP failed at 80k kilometers. Cost for new FIP - 22k + labour and caliberation of injectors. Premature failure means that the seals within the FIP fail to adequately prevent extra diesel from flowing past, this generally happens due to a sustained chemical imbalance in the fuel. The BS II (indirect injection ) pumps were made without the idea of extra elements present in the fuel. Innova within the family - 1.6 lakh kilometers covered, no problems so far, use regular diesel also poor quality diesel due to travel in rural areas. However this is a CRDi model engine. What's the advantage ? To the fuel companies and the dealer, dealer gets a rupee per litre of premium diesel sold. Fuel companies get extra revenue from premium diesel sales. Cover their advertisement costs etc etc. IF your car user's manual states do not use premium diesels, its for a reason. Hope the gyan helps. Cheers MMM
	(4) Thanks

17th June 2008, 16:54	#79
mmmjgm BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: BOM, PNQ, DXB Posts: 398 Thanked: 30 Times	Dadu, I do not agree to the above being called agyaan, if you have a litre of diesel both regular and premium, you will have an additional quantity of additives over and above regular diesel present in the premium. This is a proven fact, as well as being dealers for a petroleum PSU major we have the literature from the manufacturer. Secondly, no one is stating there is an official statement against the use of premium diesels. Third and the most important, 3 auto dealers, one of which are family state that there has been a gradual deterioration of seals present in fuel injection pumps (BS II and older). These seals regulate the flow of diesel within the pump and into the injectors. My question was, how does one rationalise by numbers whether the engine runs smoother or rough ? My earlier post was in terms of the following 1) usage of premium fuels in my personal cars. How did the indica suffer premature failure. 2) Dealer's information shared on the use of premium fuels - service histories. 3) Historic sales data and our regular customers switching over to regular diesel after using premium fuels for a long time. The last point is pertinent as we stand to loose business and customers as the complain of bad fuel quality sold to them. PM me if you wish, I can share the facts. There is always the debate that non CRDi would sustain premium diesel usage. cheers MMM
	() Thanks

7th August 2008, 19:49	#81
barcode BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: New Delhi Posts: 188 Thanked: 49 Times	With a 900km Old Verna these are the following things I noticed trying BP Premium Diesel (HiSpeed)... No Difference in Mileage for me... But what I liked was that the fact that I could slot the Car into 4th gear at around 50-55kms which I couldn't do with normal petrol. I think the pic-up improves and there is a little extra power generated at lower RPM... I could be wrong, but thats what I felt. One issue with premium diesel - I couldn't feel the turbo kicking in at 1700rpm as the car gathers lots of power by then and the "turbo feel" gets nullified.
	() Thanks

9th March 2009, 03:28	#82
Dr.Sumit Bhatti BHPian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 93 Thanked: 34 Times	There is no difference. Please refer to the explanation given in detail in the threadhttp://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ty-diesel.html
	() Thanks

5th April 2009, 22:53	#83
rubicon BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: chennai Posts: 520 Thanked: 1,254 Times	Does branded petrol really give you that extra mile Next time you pay Rs 2 extra per litre to tank up on branded petrol, you are probably being taken for a ride. For, the state-run oil marketing companies have failed to back up their claim of this fuel giving higher mileage and better engine performance before the Monopolies and Restrictive Trade Practices Commission (MRTPC). Not just that, the oil companies have also been unable to explain how they have reached the price mechanism in case of branded fuel. MRTPC had asked the companies to "clarify the quantitive difference between normal fuel and branded fuel alongwith supportive documents.'' Read more here... Does branded petrol really give you that extra mile? - India Business - Business - The Times of India Last edited by Jaggu : 5th April 2009 at 23:29. Reason: Font tags
	(1) Thanks

2nd April 2010, 08:09	#84
nitinbose Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Goa Posts: 1,011 Thanked: 719 Times	I'd taken delivery of an Innova VX yesterday. The dealer tells me NOT to fill from SHELL fuel stations as the diesel from SHELL is not good for the INNOVA and results in black smoke. They ask me to fuel from other normal fuel stations. I'm aware of the superior quality of diesel/petrol sold at shell and the accuracy in quantity, so I really prefer SHELL diesel. Please advice me if the dealer is telling the truth and there are such reports on Innova giving black smoke if fuelled from SHELL fuel stations. Innova users, please share your views. regards, Nitin.
	(1) Thanks

2nd April 2010, 12:56	#86
ecclipse78 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chennai Posts: 327 Thanked: 55 Times	As far as I know Shell only sells one type of diesel - regular. The BMW guys in Chennai, strongly recommend Shell over other brands and in fact swear by it !!
	() Thanks

11th June 2011, 14:12	#87
raj_srini BHPian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Delhi Posts: 145 Thanked: 19 Times	Re: Diff between Speed diesel, Xtra premium diesel and regular diesel I do not know enough to comment on normal vs extra premium diesel, but my experience with normal vs extra premium petrol tilts me in favour of Speed. I have been using Speed petrol for over 7 years now and can comfortably say that there is a clear improvement in mileage and engine performance. Will the results be the same for diesel, I do not know. I drive an Opel Corsa 1.4GSI petrol 2003 version.
	() Thanks

10th July 2011, 13:02	#88
aks2010 BHPian Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Kochi/Toronto Posts: 64 Thanked: 15 Times View My Garage	Re: Diff between Speed diesel, Xtra premium diesel and regular diesel Is it true that the use of premium diesel in Swift causes it to emit thick black smoke?
	() Thanks

19th January 2012, 18:44	#89
visweshkalambur BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 103 Thanked: 10 Times	Re: Diff between Speed diesel, Xtra premium diesel and regular diesel I am having a confusion. I purchased an Optra Magnum 2.0 and there is a sticker in the car saying, 'Use Premium Diesel for best results'. Whereas, the dealer has asked me to use only regular diesel. Is it advisable to use premium diesel in this case where the manufacturer has infact asked to use it for best results? Or should i still stick to the regular diesel? Availability of premium diesel in most of the places I travel is not an issue though. Please advise. Thanks.
	() Thanks