[Mustang.101]

Originally Posted by jayded

Hey Mustang,
The guys at the A.S.S. appear to be hearing such an issue for the first time, let alone suggesting ECU firmware updating. If as per what you are suggesting is the problem, then wouldn't they be already aware of it?

Has such an issue ever been released as a TSB? Do you have any information on this? May be it's time to release another one for the Figos. Also it would be great if you could post more information on your findings you just mentioned.

Here is what I found from the Ford Figo facebook page where there is a similar discussion. The owner says the ECU of his car was updated

Actually, i was going through an archive file.

It only mentioned the car's name ie. Ford Fiesta Mark V TDCi
and it mentioned the following details:

Cause : Vehicle stalling while shifting gears (When clutch pedal is pressed)
Solution : Firmware update on PCM carried out and problem was rectified.

I guess you should contact this fb guy and ask for more info as i do not have anything else to share.

[bruiser]

Originally Posted by anilisanil

I did not get you on this! What has VIN number and campaign got to do with the specific problem being discussed here? Did I miss anything?

Yes you certainly did, last time when I went in for 10 k service, the extra wiring that Ford had asked the service centres to add to a certain lot, showed up on the system as soon as the SA entered the car VIN.

I was basically replying to Mustang's query on whether the SA's ever talked about this issue or a firmware update about the same.

[gemithomas]

Originally Posted by Mustang.101

Did any of the SA's ever recommend a firmware update to the PCM/ECU?

I was going through some old files of the mark 5 fiesta and i found this particular information about a similar kind of problem, that you guys are facing, was rectified by a simple firmware update.

See one of my first few posts on this thread.

Originally Posted by gemithomas

.....It must have more to do with the ECU coding than anything else. Its funny that this did not come up during the extensive tests that Ford did on the Figo before launch. Or maybe even the test drivers dismissed it as their fault in managing the clutch.

It should surely have something to do with the ECU. I think Ford just wasted around 30K for your car. You are just lucky that it did not come from your pocket!!

[vina]

Originally Posted by bruiser

Well well well, finally it happened yesterday, just when i posted that my FIGO is running without an issues whatsoever.

Driving back home after office, with maddening rush, I downshifted to 3rd, and the car just stalled. The car behind me came to a screeching stop (must be abusing me as well). Turned off the ignition and cranked and it started without a fuss.

@Mustang.101 - You can add another owner to the list now .

I have decided to stick to a 5k oil change cycle, and since the car has done 14k kms, I will be heading to the service centre soon. I will get injectors checked and will ask them to look for other errors as well.

OT - When i was deciding on a new car, my dear friend, Architect , had suggested to go for something other than a FORD, since I already had an F in my life - FIAT. His words were echoing in my ears for the rest of the drive back home. . But I must add that the 44k kms with my PALIO have been trouble free and contrary to the belief, the service costs are cheaper than my Wagon R.

I haven't seen it stalling but almost always on a downshift my Figo seems to go into very heavy engine braking unless I press the pedal immediately.

the sequence of events is like this:

(Let's say I'm @35 in 3rd gear) - I press clutch, reduce speed to 20-25, change gear to 2nd, now release the clutch slowly. This usually happens on turns, so the right foot remains on the break. NOW if I don't take my right foot on the accelerator, the 2nd gear immediately applies very heavy engine break - the speed falls very very noticeably.

Also if I don't immediately press the pedal, the rpm does drop so much that the car ultimately stalls (unless I press the clutch again)


Now this is what happens - don't flame me for this. If this is not supposed to happen then there is something wrong and I need to talk to my dealer - please let me know.

[anilisanil]

Originally Posted by vina

I haven't seen it stalling but almost always on a downshift my Figo seems to go into very heavy engine braking unless I press the pedal immediately.

the sequence of events is like this:



Also if I don't immediately press the pedal, the rpm does drop so much that the car ultimately stalls (unless I press the clutch again)

That is what exactly happens, albeit it need not necessarily be during turn negotiation. Though the chances of stalling while turning are high due to the load on engine due to the PS' pump working. To me it was always when A/C was on. Of the 10-12 times it happened to me around 5 times were when trying to turn and three times when I was trying to slow down for a bump. Around twice when I was trying to downshift to overtake. But when I came to know about the problem, I make sure I press the clutch back when the there is a slight indication of a stall (the dashboard chimes thrice before stalling, so if you press the clutch even after second chime you are safe )

[gemithomas]

Those who are experiencing the problem. Do the 3500 rpm thingy and then drive the car slightly more aggressively for a week and see if the problem is occurring. In my case i have a gut feeing that most of the times i experienced it i had been driving sedately for short trips for 3-4 days. Just want to confirm if its the sooth developing on any sensor.

[bruiser]

Originally Posted by gemithomas

Those who are experiencing the problem. Do the 3500 rpm thingy and then drive the car slightly more aggressively for a week and see if the problem is occurring. In my case i have a gut feeing that most of the times i experienced it i had been driving sedately for short trips for 3-4 days. Just want to confirm if its the sooth developing on any sensor.

It might be jumping the gun but:

Even if this is the case, its a design flaw, Ford doesnt expect everyone to be ripping their cars every week or so. 90% of the buyers will be sedate drivers who travel with their family and they might not be the ones like us who take out their cars over the weekend just to hit the 3500 mark on the RPM .

I completely agree with you on this though cos this occured on my car when the driver had been driving it for close to 15 days or so, and boy, does he love driving slow or what .

[anilisanil]

Originally Posted by bruiser

It might be jumping the gun but:

Even if this is the case, its a design flaw, Ford doesnt expect everyone to be ripping their cars every week or so. 90% of the buyers will be sedate drivers who travel with their family and they might not be the ones like us who take out their cars over the weekend just to hit the 3500 mark on the RPM .

I completely agree with you on this though cos this occured on my car when the driver had been driving it for close to 15 days or so, and boy, does he love driving slow or what .

But with the kind of fuel that we get here, we cannot help either! And as I see it, this is a generic problem with Diesels, as there are a few non ford owners reporting the problem too.

And as I mentioned before, a thorough cleaning of air filter helped my cause. I was impressed to see the amount of dust they filtered and hope they did not let any much in!!

And one more thins high RPM need always mean high speed, trying to reach 40-50 kmph in second gear would take you to that speed.

But yeah these are all assumptions, and if they are all wrong then I shall agree with you Ford is at fault!

[vina]

Originally Posted by anilisanil

That is what exactly happens, albeit it need not necessarily be during turn negotiation. Though the chances of stalling while turning are high due to the load on engine due to the PS' pump working. To me it was always when A/C was on. Of the 10-12 times it happened to me around 5 times were when trying to turn and three times when I was trying to slow down for a bump. Around twice when I was trying to downshift to overtake. But when I came to know about the problem, I make sure I press the clutch back when the there is a slight indication of a stall (the dashboard chimes thrice before stalling, so if you press the clutch even after second chime you are safe )

Well, it was thinking it is my driving style.

Now I try to keep the right foot on the pedal before I start releasing the clutch - whenever I can do that, the problem never comes. Also I don't know about the chimes but the engine baraking is noticeable enough to get you to do something about it (release clutch, press pedal).

On one occasion I had to downshift to first in the middle of a turn - and that made engine braking worse.


another thing I have noticed - when driving for some time at low speed in the first, if I take my foot of the pedal then the car jerks and starts to come to a halt.



Regarding the 3500rpm thing, Mustang advised me earlier to keep the engine running for 30sec at 3000+rpm at least once in a week - even if I do it in neutral. How does that help?

[anilisanil]

Originally Posted by vina

Well, it was thinking it is my driving style.

Now I try to keep the right foot on the pedal before I start releasing the clutch - whenever I can do that, the problem never comes. Also I don't know about the chimes but the engine baraking is noticeable enough to get you to do something about it (release clutch, press pedal).

On one occasion I had to downshift to first in the middle of a turn - and that made engine braking worse.


another thing I have noticed - when driving for some time at low speed in the first, if I take my foot of the pedal then the car jerks and starts to come to a halt.



Regarding the 3500rpm thing, Mustang advised me earlier to keep the engine running for 30sec at 3000+rpm at least once in a week - even if I do it in neutral. How does that help?

Clicked on thanks while I actually wanted to quote.


See the (probable) reason behind the 3500 RPM theory is that the Engine is cleared of all the soot. This includes your catalytic converter, fuel injectors et al. So I do not see why you it should not work when in neutral, but I read somewhere specifically mentioned that the car's tranny should be engaged for this. May be there are more systems at work when Engine is loaded than otherwise!

So to answer your question, it is recommended that you do it in gear rather than on neutral and I do not quite know why?

[bruiser]

Originally Posted by anilisanil

But with the kind of fuel that we get here, we cannot help either! And as I see it, this is a generic problem with Diesels, as there are a few non ford owners reporting the problem too.

And as I mentioned before, a thorough cleaning of air filter helped my cause. I was impressed to see the amount of dust they filtered and hope they did not let any much in!!

And one more thins high RPM need always mean high speed, trying to reach 40-50 kmph in second gear would take you to that speed.

But yeah these are all assumptions, and if they are all wrong then I shall agree with you Ford is at fault!

What surprises me is the fact that Fiesta owners have never complained of anything of this sort.

I agree with you on cleaning the Air filter, I am anyways going to stick to a 5k oil change interval so will ask them to clean the air filter at 15k.

I do understand that those RPMs can be reached in 2nd gears as well, but I doubt how many of the owners will be following it.

The doubt stems from the fact that I was being overcharged for Engine Oil at Harprit Ford. The bill mentioned it as 4.3 litres whereas the manual says its 3.9 or some figure like that and I didnt even notice it in the first service.

And when confronted they said they were filling in the right amount, so after a query to Ford and a very prompt call from Chennai, the SA called back and admitted I was being charged wrongly.

The point I am making is, I wonder how many of the owners would have taken the time out to go through the bill and the manual.

And these people constitute (if I am not mistaken) almost 90% of the car buying Junta. And hence the numbers we see for Maruti and Hyundai .(no offence)

Furthermore although we as owners of Figo do know its a wonderful car, it is one with niggling issues and its too early in the products life to comment any further.

[vina]

Originally Posted by anilisanil

Clicked on thanks while I actually wanted to quote.


See the (probable) reason behind the 3500 RPM theory is that the Engine is cleared of all the soot. This includes your catalytic converter, fuel injectors et al. So I do not see why you it should not work when in neutral, but I read somewhere specifically mentioned that the car's tranny should be engaged for this. May be there are more systems at work when Engine is loaded than otherwise!

So to answer your question, it is recommended that you do it in gear rather than on neutral and I do not quite know why?

Hey, in that case, can it be done with the 1st gear engaged, clutch fully pressed in and car stationary?

Even in the second gear the Figo goes past 40kmph once I try to do 3500 on tacho - there aren't many roads here where you can do that speed for 30sec.

[anilisanil]

Originally Posted by vina

can it be done with the 1st gear engaged, clutch fully pressed in and car stationary?

No Vina, when clutch is fully pressed it is as good as neutral. Pressing the clutch disengages the driven shaft from the driver shaft and it is essentially a neutral condition.

P.S: I hope I got your question right, I have read your posts in the forum and am quite impressed with your knowledge, so I am rather surprised you asked this question and am still wondering if I got it right!

[vina]

Originally Posted by anilisanil

No Vina, when clutch is fully pressed it is as good as neutral. Pressing the clutch disengages the driven shaft from the driver shaft and it is essentially a neutral condition.

P.S: I hope I got your question right, I have read your posts in the forum and am quite impressed with your knowledge, so I am rather surprised you asked this question and am still wondering if I got it right!

you got the question right. and thanks for your impressions of my knowledge - though your impression may be more generous than the reality.

I asked to find whether by "in-gear" you meant it should be done with load on the engine (which in neutral it wont have) or whether there are parts till the flywheel that need a good 3500rpm exercise once in a while too.

My guess would be loaded engine theory - so was just checking.


today I did manage to do a total 40sec between 3000 and 3500 rpm in three closely spaced installments of 20sec +10sec + 10sec. the car did seem a little better as far as the engine braking thing goes - but I was driving carefully anyway so this might just be in my head. All of this on the flat road.


By the way, while cruising what kind of rpm should one maintain in a Figo TDCi. My car gives hardly any noise at 1500-1700 in the third gear, so that is what I try to hold (between 1500-2000 most of the time). Another reason is that Mustang told me a good rpm to upshift is 2300, my range is shy of that and I feel turbolag at 1100 (engine makes complaining noises at less than 1000 with AC on).

I guess Swift and Tata vehicle, that have turbolag all the way to 2000rpm can not do 1500 sustained anyway (wouldn't it be lugging if the turbo is no spooling fully?) so their recommended numbers would be different.

[anilisanil]

Originally Posted by vina

By the way, while cruising what kind of rpm should one maintain in a Figo TDCi. My car gives hardly any noise at 1500-1700 in the third gear, so that is what I try to hold (between 1500-2000 most of the time). Another reason is that Mustang told me a good rpm to upshift is 2300, my range is shy of that and I feel turbolag at 1100 (engine makes complaining noises at less than 1000 with AC on).

I guess Swift and Tata vehicle, that have turbolag all the way to 2000rpm can not do 1500 sustained anyway (wouldn't it be lugging if the turbo is no spooling fully?) so their recommended numbers would be different.

1500-2000 is where you get the best mileage, if you really want to cruise it would be above 2000 and up to 2900-3000 where you reach 120-130 in fifth gear, anything above that in fifth gear would make your engine sound like it is going to explode!!

Up-shifting varied with gear, first gear and second gears are too torquy to wait until 2300. Third would make do around 2000 and above that it is upto you when you want to upshift which depends on the condition.

Yeah you are right, engine lugs a lot at lower RPMs, you might want to avoid lugging the engine as it causes a lot of strain on your transmission system.


Update from my side: After about 2500 kms after air filter cleaning my car stalled again today, I was downshifting and trying to negotiate a turn and the a/c was on!!