Lancer D - Rust in radiator, coolant is gone

rajivanoj · 14th January 2011, 23:25

My lancer diesel has problem in cooling system. After changing engine oil, i casually opened radiator in engine off condition, i could see the vertical pipes dry, i was shocked and poured around 3-4 glass of water. but i have not seen trace of coolant color (green). it is like rust color water.

This problem was before, and i have flushed once and mixed TVS ezicool with water and poured in radiator, but still the color changes slowly to rusty , and now the water level has dropped.

I have no trace of oil in radiator water

No trace of creamy layer or brownish color in oil when i changed oil last day

The temperature gauge shows is just below half mark in lancer gauge, not above half mark. (lancer diesel owners . please help, am i right? )

When i opened radiator cap, there was mud/rust color sediments around cap, and near neck.

if i start engine when radiator cap is open, the radiator erupts water outside and bubbling like air is supplied in.

if i raise little bit RPM, then the water is normal, (not coming out)

The fan is working good.

No leak in coolant system

What could be the problem?

I will post the pictures of radiator cap and color of water tomorrow.

GTO · 15th January 2011, 15:39

The only times I've seen a bone dry radiator in modern cars is when the fan went kaput. Though you claim that your cooling fan is functioning properly, I'd still advise getting it checked.

How old is your car and the radiator? The radiator's internals are definitely rusted. You need to get it re-conditioned or, preferably, buy a new unit.

nitrous · 15th January 2011, 16:03

Remove the radiator from the car.
Give it to a renowned radiator guy and explain the issue. He should be able to diagnose if there's anything wrong with the rad.
The leak could be at the radiator hose too.

PS: This condition is very bad for the engine. Get it sorted ASAP.

dhanushs · 15th January 2011, 18:24

Usually coolant oil also prevents rusting of radiator insides. In this case, the car must have run with less coolant, or saline 'water' for a while which has caused the rust.

When you topped the coolant fluid, damage had already been done and hence the rusty colored water. Please get it cleaned up/replaced asap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rajivanoj

if i start engine when radiator cap is open, the radiator erupts water outside and bubbling like air is supplied in.

if i raise little bit RPM, then the water is normal, (not coming out)

This is normal.

rajivanoj · 15th January 2011, 18:40

@ all

as you all suggested, i will contact radiator service on monday, will clean it, also as GTO said, i need to check the fan condition once again.

Is there any problem with gasket??

CrackedHead · 16th January 2011, 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by rajivanoj

if i start engine when radiator cap is open, the radiator erupts water outside and bubbling like air is supplied in.

This is an indicator of a leaky head gasket. Are you sure that the engine isn't overheating ?

dhanushs · 16th January 2011, 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrackedHead

This is an indicator of a leaky head gasket.

If the head gasket is leaky wont there be oil in coolant?.

Quote:

I have no trace of oil in radiator water

rajivanoj · 16th January 2011, 10:31

@cracked head

The temperature gauge shows just below half way mark, in my lancer D, even with AC on, i dont know whether it is the same normal criteria in lancer diesels, only owners of lancer D can clear the doubt.

@dhanushs

Yes , there is no trace of oil in radiator water, even though i have changed oil 3 days back, the oil is pitch black, not brownish color or creamy color as it will change color if water mixed with oil.

But mechanic say it is indication , that gasket is losing its life. since the water comes out in idle when radiator cap is in open state, and air bubbles coming.

Anyway i am going to take car to another mechanic to know exact problem,

As for cleaning radiator, one mechanic suggests to pour three sachets of shampoo with ariel washing powder in radiator and run car for 2 days, then drain it, all dirt will be flushed, he says so, i am confused. Since radiator service costs more than Rs.500 in given to shop. What he says is right??

rajivanoj · 16th January 2011, 18:43

I have uploaded close up shot of radiator neck and cap.

The video , i have added in youtube

Just after starting cold engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbZZMo-lWaU

After 1 minute, the water eruption have stopped. i dont know what is happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fedGz0eyBk

narendra.vw · 16th January 2011, 21:10

Looking at the video I don’t think any problem with engine head gasket.
Take the car to the nearest service station, remove bottom hose. From the top wash the radiator using pressure water hose . See that all dirt comes from bottom hose. Fit back B/hose & fill the coolant(add lubricating additive for radiator). Before closing the cap run the engine , try to press all hose pipes leading to the radiator. This will help in removing all air locked inside the engine. Close the cap allow the engine to run normal temp. see if fan switches on . If yes then your car fan working fine. Also see the time duration of the fan. If it stops working with in seconds then you have to change the thermostat switch.

SirAlec · 16th January 2011, 21:13

The water pump is working fine. Just flush the radiator with a high pressure water jet. Open the coolant return pipe below before doing that. Use a pure coolant with distilled water.

rajivanoj · 17th January 2011, 19:25

@ sir alec & narendra

As you both suggested, mechanic also said the same, but instead he is using WURTH coolant flush, for 30 minutes with removing thermostat, and then drain the water, after he needs to flush with pressurised water from top, He is right on his vision i think so.

He was against cleaning radiator by radiator service shops, since they will remove aluminium locks and after cleaning they again lock it by bending the aluminium again, but he said it will sometime create problem if the person did not do it properly. so i agreed to him. he will flush it tomorrow. will update the result.

nitrous · 17th January 2011, 20:21

Looks like the radiator has had too much water rather than coolant.
Not good.

rajivanoj · 21st January 2011, 21:37

Problem is solved i think.

Before:

the temperature gauge will stand just an mm below the half mark in my car, (50%)

After service:

It just stands 1/4th of the gauge not nearing half mark. (25%)

The problem is , radiator got clogged , only half of the radiator was circulating coolant, so mechanic asked to service the radiator, done it. and flushed with Bardahl, to clear engine blocks. So i see improvement in temperature gauge.

I have also done other things as preventive and maintenance measure.

Timing belt change (Gates brand Rs.975)
Alternator belt (Fenner Rs.275)
a/c belt (Fenner Rs.275)
radiator flush (Bardahl Rs.425)
steering boot (Rs.99 one side)
cam oil seal (Rs.126 )
Coolant 2 litre (AC Delco Rs.125/litre)
suspension rubber (Rs.300 two side)

With this i got labour charge of Rs.3000. for all fitting , removing, flushing, etc. (labour includes Radiator service of Rs.1100)

14th January 2011, 23:25	#1
rajivanoj BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Coimbatore Posts: 398 Thanked: 52 Times View My Garage	Lancer D - Rust in radiator, coolant is gone My lancer diesel has problem in cooling system. After changing engine oil, i casually opened radiator in engine off condition, i could see the vertical pipes dry, i was shocked and poured around 3-4 glass of water. but i have not seen trace of coolant color (green). it is like rust color water. This problem was before, and i have flushed once and mixed TVS ezicool with water and poured in radiator, but still the color changes slowly to rusty , and now the water level has dropped. I have no trace of oil in radiator water No trace of creamy layer or brownish color in oil when i changed oil last day The temperature gauge shows is just below half mark in lancer gauge, not above half mark. (lancer diesel owners . please help, am i right? ) When i opened radiator cap, there was mud/rust color sediments around cap, and near neck. if i start engine when radiator cap is open, the radiator erupts water outside and bubbling like air is supplied in. if i raise little bit RPM, then the water is normal, (not coming out) The fan is working good. No leak in coolant system What could be the problem? I will post the pictures of radiator cap and color of water tomorrow. Last edited by rajivanoj : 14th January 2011 at 23:31.
	() Thanks

15th January 2011, 15:39	#2
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 72,710 Thanked: 318,195 Times View My Garage	Re: Lancer D - Rust in radiator, coolant is gone The only times I've seen a bone dry radiator in modern cars is when the fan went kaput. Though you claim that your cooling fan is functioning properly, I'd still advise getting it checked. How old is your car and the radiator? The radiator's internals are definitely rusted. You need to get it re-conditioned or, preferably, buy a new unit.
	() Thanks

15th January 2011, 16:03	#3
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 332 Times View My Garage	Re: Lancer D - Rust in radiator, coolant is gone Remove the radiator from the car. Give it to a renowned radiator guy and explain the issue. He should be able to diagnose if there's anything wrong with the rad. The leak could be at the radiator hose too. PS: This condition is very bad for the engine. Get it sorted ASAP.
	() Thanks

15th January 2011, 18:40	#5
rajivanoj BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Coimbatore Posts: 398 Thanked: 52 Times View My Garage	Re: Lancer D - Rust in radiator, coolant is gone @ all as you all suggested, i will contact radiator service on monday, will clean it, also as GTO said, i need to check the fan condition once again. Is there any problem with gasket??
	() Thanks

16th January 2011, 10:31	#8
rajivanoj BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Coimbatore Posts: 398 Thanked: 52 Times View My Garage	Re: Lancer D - Rust in radiator, coolant is gone @cracked head The temperature gauge shows just below half way mark, in my lancer D, even with AC on, i dont know whether it is the same normal criteria in lancer diesels, only owners of lancer D can clear the doubt. @dhanushs Yes , there is no trace of oil in radiator water, even though i have changed oil 3 days back, the oil is pitch black, not brownish color or creamy color as it will change color if water mixed with oil. But mechanic say it is indication , that gasket is losing its life. since the water comes out in idle when radiator cap is in open state, and air bubbles coming. Anyway i am going to take car to another mechanic to know exact problem, As for cleaning radiator, one mechanic suggests to pour three sachets of shampoo with ariel washing powder in radiator and run car for 2 days, then drain it, all dirt will be flushed, he says so, i am confused. Since radiator service costs more than Rs.500 in given to shop. What he says is right??
	() Thanks

16th January 2011, 21:10	#10
narendra.vw BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bangaloru Posts: 293 Thanked: 425 Times	Re: Lancer D - Rust in radiator, coolant is gone Looking at the video I don’t think any problem with engine head gasket. Take the car to the nearest service station, remove bottom hose. From the top wash the radiator using pressure water hose . See that all dirt comes from bottom hose. Fit back B/hose & fill the coolant(add lubricating additive for radiator). Before closing the cap run the engine , try to press all hose pipes leading to the radiator. This will help in removing all air locked inside the engine. Close the cap allow the engine to run normal temp. see if fan switches on . If yes then your car fan working fine. Also see the time duration of the fan. If it stops working with in seconds then you have to change the thermostat switch.
	() Thanks

16th January 2011, 21:13	#11
SirAlec Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: zxc Posts: 3,395 Thanked: 727 Times	Re: Lancer D - Rust in radiator, coolant is gone The water pump is working fine. Just flush the radiator with a high pressure water jet. Open the coolant return pipe below before doing that. Use a pure coolant with distilled water.
	() Thanks

17th January 2011, 19:25	#12
rajivanoj BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Coimbatore Posts: 398 Thanked: 52 Times View My Garage	Re: Lancer D - Rust in radiator, coolant is gone @ sir alec & narendra As you both suggested, mechanic also said the same, but instead he is using WURTH coolant flush, for 30 minutes with removing thermostat, and then drain the water, after he needs to flush with pressurised water from top, He is right on his vision i think so. He was against cleaning radiator by radiator service shops, since they will remove aluminium locks and after cleaning they again lock it by bending the aluminium again, but he said it will sometime create problem if the person did not do it properly. so i agreed to him. he will flush it tomorrow. will update the result.
	() Thanks

17th January 2011, 20:21	#13
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 332 Times View My Garage	Re: Lancer D - Rust in radiator, coolant is gone Looks like the radiator has had too much water rather than coolant. Not good.
	() Thanks

21st January 2011, 21:37	#14
rajivanoj BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Coimbatore Posts: 398 Thanked: 52 Times View My Garage	Re: Lancer D - Rust in radiator, coolant is gone Problem is solved i think. Before: the temperature gauge will stand just an mm below the half mark in my car, (50%) After service: It just stands 1/4th of the gauge not nearing half mark. (25%) The problem is , radiator got clogged , only half of the radiator was circulating coolant, so mechanic asked to service the radiator, done it. and flushed with Bardahl, to clear engine blocks. So i see improvement in temperature gauge. I have also done other things as preventive and maintenance measure. Timing belt change (Gates brand Rs.975) Alternator belt (Fenner Rs.275) a/c belt (Fenner Rs.275) radiator flush (Bardahl Rs.425) steering boot (Rs.99 one side) cam oil seal (Rs.126 ) Coolant 2 litre (AC Delco Rs.125/litre) suspension rubber (Rs.300 two side) With this i got labour charge of Rs.3000. for all fitting , removing, flushing, etc. (labour includes Radiator service of Rs.1100) Last edited by rajivanoj : 21st January 2011 at 21:38.
	() Thanks