[Viper21]

My MID also is acting up.. Sometimes after I start the engine, the MID does not come on. Sometimes the avg kmpl will reset to 0. Other electronics are not affected though. Any suggestions?

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Tanmay K

The DIS on my Dec 2010 Manza Aura decided to die yesterday. TASS SA quoted me a full assembly replacement for 13k (without bothering to take a look in detail). Here's a picture of how it looks like with and without flash:

Sorry for the repeated post, I came home and saw the images in detail on my desktop, and it seems like this is an LCD display and the backlight has conked off. I initially assumed that it is an LED display but my assumption was wrong. Fixing this will be an easier since the display elements are working correctly. It just needs a backlight and the problem will be fixed.

[lsjey]

My Manza had a second breakdown today.
While driving to drop my daughter to school, the clutch pedal stopped working. The pedal did not return to normal position after being depressed for gear change. I used the momentum of the car to take it to road side and called road side assistance. The mechanic came in 30 mins. He diagnosed the issue as busted clutch cylinder. On further probing he said the the clutch cylinder is plastic in Manza, whereas in Toyota it is aluminum and Hyundai iron. He also acknowledged this is a problem with Manza. The expected cost will be around 6k. I left the car to drop my daughter to school, as the vehicle had to be towed. I was promised the car will be delivered after repairs today evening. Keeping my fingers crossed.

This makes me think, what are the other vulnerable parts in Manza? Or quality issues that can result in breakdown?

Regards,
lsjey

[Tanmay K]

Originally Posted by lsjey

The expected cost will be around 6k.

I'm not an authority on this, but I think that's a bit steep? The master cylinder (around Rs 2200) would need replacement in your case since the pedal is stuck to the floor and the slave (which costs around 1200) should be alright.

http://www.99rpm.com/tata/clutch-cyl...nza-vista.html

[lsjey]

Master and slave both were replaced along with some rubber tubing. I finally ended up paying 5.5k

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by lsjey

...He also acknowledged this is a problem with Manza. The expected cost will be around 6k...

The clutch cylinder brakes because the pressure plate becomes hard, and it takes more force to actuate the clutch. If you dont change the pressure plate, these will again break.

Meanwhile, I've changed the clutch pressure plate 3 times in the last 30,000 kms.

[Dr.Suraj]

I hope this is the right thread for the forum.

I have a MAJOR problem with my Manza. (link to Ownership Thread)

It's an extremely well maintained car - with even a fog lamp bulb being changed only at Authorized - Concorde Motors, Worli.
Smallest scratch - treated.
GOLD AMC till 50,000 kms.

Current odo - is 56771 kms.

Here's the thing.

2 days ago - around 11 pm - on an otherwise empty stretch of road - with nothing obviously suspicious visible -

suddenly I hear a GRATING sound - coming from the engine. Metal grating.
Goes away on acceleration - comes up on pressing the clutch.

NO LIGHTS blinking. No other issue. No smoke. No fumes. Nothing.

While I am still trying to figure out what is happening - the car travels another 150 to 200 meters.
& suddenly - no response to acceleration - just more grating sound.

By then I had already shifted to the left side of the road and parked it - popped the bonnet.
What do I see ...

Attachment 1411040

Attachment 1411041

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Attachment 1411043

Okay - so the belt has slipped off - broken.
Happens maybe. Wear and tear? Age? Maybe.
So be it.

I immediately call - Javed Shaikh (SA) from Concorde Motors, Worli - who attended my call even at that late hour.
He said - no problem. it's a 30 minute job to change the belt.
Please get to car towed to the workshop. We will do it tomorrow itself.

Fair enough I though. No big deal. Called up the Tata 24 x 7 helpline & roadside assistance.
All good. All courteous. Within 20 minutes we had a tow truck. Connected through the front bumper - towed to Worli. All fine. No issues.

The horror story begins the next day -
Javed calls - he asks - what exactly happened? Did you hit something?
I said - no - not in the least. Why?

"Sir - the engine has broken off from the mount and tilted to 1 side. The belt has broken. The pulley has eaten into the air pipe - the AC compressor might be damaged too. & this is just preliminary report - what can be seen."

My heart stopped for a moment. I did not know what to think or react. How did this happen? How can this happen? What does this mean?
Curtains for my beloved ?

I rushed to Concorde - everyone involved immediately came to show me around.
Javed, Kavishwar from the body shop, guys from the insurance - showed me things in detail.
Gladly let me click pics. Shared theirs too.

2 things:
1. They all unanimously agreed - that there is NO SIGN of any damage. Any rock hitting. Nothing. No cause found.
&
2. They all could not answer the simple question - why did this happen?! How - does a iron mounting (die cast metal) just snap off?

Pictures attached.


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My question to everyone here at the community is this:

1. Is this possible? Does this happen? This easily? For a 56771 kms run car? Immaculately maintained?

2. If yes, why? What is the cause? Irrespective of who foots the bill, my concern lies in the why and how? Those are the crucial answers - even to convert it to a 'learning experience' (in hindsight - right now the entire family is traumatized - one of our family members is in the ICU at Concorde - so that's our state)

3. What is the right way forward? Repair and then ... ? Future?

4. Is this a known issue? With Manza? With Tata? They are known for robust build and thick metal, right?

Any and every advice will be appreciated.

Thank you !

[lsjey]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

The clutch cylinder brakes because the pressure plate becomes hard, and it takes more force to actuate the clutch. If you dont change the pressure plate, these will again break.

Meanwhile, I've changed the clutch pressure plate 3 times in the last 30,000 kms.

Thanks a ton. Will do this asap. Changing pressure plates 3 times!!! Any specific reason?

[lsjey]

Dr.suraj,

Scary indeed. I'm no expert in this. I sincerely hope every thing turns out fine.

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by lsjey

Dr.suraj,

Scary indeed. I'm no expert in this. I sincerely hope every thing turns out fine.

Thank you!

Touchwood - The boy is back home since last 4 days.

Insurance claim was rejected.
Concorde swiftly arranged the parts.
Work was done within 2 days & I got the Manza home.
Before taking delivery from Concorde - I took the SA (Javed) for a drive with me. Tried the steering and every bit of the car. Engine in stop & go traffic. Engine at 135-140 kmph too. Not a single issue or complaint. Everything seemed fine.
Cleared the bill: ~ 41k Rs.
Seems to be doing perfectly fine as of now.

Big shout out to fellow BHPian @ madhu33 for being there during such tough times.

[autocrat]

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

Thank you!

Touchwood - The boy is back home since last 4 days.

Insurance claim was rejected.
Concorde swiftly arranged the parts.
Work was done within 2 days & I got the Manza home.
Before taking delivery from Concorde - I took the SA (Javed) for a drive with me. Tried the steering and every bit of the car. Engine in stop & go traffic. Engine at 135-140 kmph too. Not a single issue or complaint. Everything seemed fine.
Cleared the bill: ~ 41k Rs.
Seems to be doing perfectly fine as of now.

Big shout out to fellow BHPian @ madhu33 for being there during such tough times.

Dr. Suraj, Nice to know your beloved car is back home! However, have they given any root cause as to why and how such a catastrophic failure happened? When the engine is doing 2000~2500 rpm, such sudden failures can send out metal shards like missiles, just like a grenade going off. Count your lucky stars.

Also, in one of the pictures posted, I see a badly rusted and cracked part, is it a part of the subframe? Why is it so badly corroded if your car has done only 56000 km? Was there any acid leakage from the battery?

Please insist on sharing the root cause analysis with you, and please insist someone from TATA Motors inspect the failed components.

[Ironhide]

Originally Posted by Hudson

Facing the following issues with my Dec 09 Manza Aura+ Quadrajet. It has done around 35K by now and running on original tyres.


Since past 1 Month:
>> After gear change(1, 2 or 3rd) on accelerating there is a jerk. Clutch has always been hard(unlike Etios/City where it is super soft).

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

It's a hydraulic clutch in the Manza so the feel is different.
There is not setting that can be done. You can at the most ask them to check the cylinder & grease the cable.

Also not fair to compare a petrol car to a diesel car clutch.

What RPM do you shift at? The typical jerk would be if you are changing below 2k rpm or lifting off the clutch too fast.

Originally Posted by Hudson

Thanks Dr. Suraj for the inputs!

Gear change(1/2/3) is generally done below 2K rpm. After changing gear it takes around 2-3 seconds for the clutch to be completely released. After that, if I accelerate then there is a jerk. If I wait for another 2 seconds and then accelerate very slowly then it doesnot jerk.

Originally Posted by Hudson

They also did clutch bleeding. Now that judder is gone & the gear change is better(there is no lag) although gear shifting is hard as before.

Originally Posted by windiesel

After many iffy experiences at various TASS in Delhi, finally had a pleasant experience at 'Narain Singh and Sons' which is near the Jahangirpuri Metro Stn. Recently got my clutch set changed at 48000 kms and the brake master cylinder as well. Dinesh is the Service Advisor to look for.

Originally Posted by windiesel

The clutch was functioning just fine but it had become unbearably hard, so I decided to change it. Now it has become so delightfully light. The clutch set was for 4810 and labour was 2500. The master cylinder was changed because at times the brake pedal used to go right down to the floor without activating the brakes and one had to pump the pedal to brake. It also cost around Rs 4800.

Originally Posted by TechNomad

My Manza Aura has run 33k so far , and I have noticed marginal increase in RPM to attain same speed , that it used to attain at a lower RPM . For e.g., it takes slightly more than 2K RPM to reach 80KM , on smooth tarmac like NH8 between Gurgaon and Delhi.

Has anyone experienced this before ?

Originally Posted by bikertillidie

• Best to have the clutch plates/pressure plate checked for slippage (most likely)
• check the tachometer - probably is not showing true readings

Originally Posted by TechNomad

Hi All
I have the 40K service due tomorrow for my Manza QJD Aura. I would like some advice / guidance from the forum on this matter!!

Along with "standard service at 40k" , I want to rectify some major issues with break and clutch.

Second issue is with Clutch being very hard , and the Gear stick is very un-pleasant to use. I got this checked again by SA. He advised that the Clutch Plate and Pressure Plate needs to be changed , and approx cost given is 10,500/-.

Originally Posted by lsjey

My Manza had a second breakdown today.
While driving to drop my daughter to school, the clutch pedal stopped working. The pedal did not return to normal position after being depressed for gear change. I used the momentum of the car to take it to road side and called road side assistance. The mechanic came in 30 mins. He diagnosed the issue as busted clutch cylinder. On further probing he said the the clutch cylinder is plastic in Manza, whereas in Toyota it is aluminum and Hyundai iron. He also acknowledged this is a problem with Manza. The expected cost will be around 6k. I left the car to drop my daughter to school, as the vehicle had to be towed. I was promised the car will be delivered after repairs today evening. Keeping my fingers crossed.

This makes me think, what are the other vulnerable parts in Manza? Or quality issues that can result in breakdown?

Regards,
lsjey

Originally Posted by dhanushs

The clutch cylinder brakes because the pressure plate becomes hard, and it takes more force to actuate the clutch. If you dont change the pressure plate, these will again break.

Meanwhile, I've changed the clutch pressure plate 3 times in the last 30,000 kms.

Originally Posted by lsjey

Thanks a ton. Will do this asap. Changing pressure plates 3 times!!! Any specific reason?

As you would have guessed, I'm pointing in a certain direction with Manza , namely, the clutch. I was going through the list of problems and realised that the clutch related problems have cropped up many times on this thread. Wonder why.

The clutch in my Manza Quadrajet started getting hard to depress at around 63K (the car is at 69K now) and slotting it in reverse takes some effort now. Also getting into first gear from standstill is difficult, though rest of the gears are easy to slot, especially when the car's rolling.

While speaking to a knowledgeable guy who works on Tata cars as a matter of profession and has serviced numerous Manzas since they were launched, it emerged that Tata bought the engine from Fiat and also the gearbox and clutch mechanism. Manza Quadrajet has a hydraulic clutch, with a Master and a slave cylinder (made of plastic?) , while the Safire Petrol has a cable driven one. He said that the Safire clutch hardly had any issues while the Quadrajet clutch was reported to become hard early leading to changing the pressure plate and also the Master or Slave Cylinder (sometimes both) had to be changed. He also said that Tata have revised it in Zest and there's a minor design change.

Another interesting thing that came of the conversation was that Maruti also bought the engine from Fiat (in both 75 and 90 BHP tunes) but plonked their own gearbox and clutch. I'm not sure whether they have hydraulic or cable actuated clutches in in their DDiS models.

What I'm asking is

• Whether clutches are to be changed so early (in some cases as low as between 30-40K kms?) or is it a problem with diesel vehicles only? (My Zen is at 74K and still on its feather light original clutch).
• Is there a design flaw in the clutch of Manza Quadrajet (which is essentially a Fiat design).
• Is there a similar problem with Linea QJD?
• Is there a way to plonk the Zest Master/Slave cylinder in the clutch, or have a cable driven system for the Quadrajet clutches?

Just a thought.

Cheers !

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by autocrat

Dr. Suraj, Nice to know your beloved car is back home! However, have they given any root cause as to why and how such a catastrophic failure happened? When the engine is doing 2000~2500 rpm, such sudden failures can send out metal shards like missiles, just like a grenade going off. Count your lucky stars.

Also, in one of the pictures posted, I see a badly rusted and cracked part, is it a part of the subframe? Why is it so badly corroded if your car has done only 56000 km? Was there any acid leakage from the battery?

Please insist on sharing the root cause analysis with you, and please insist someone from TATA Motors inspect the failed components.

This is getting increasingly troublesome !

Yes - that was a rusted subframe. Also replaced now.
&
no answer to why that was rusted - when I had paid for WURTH anti-rust coating (5 year package) - touched up and checked every 6 months - without fail !

[autocrat]

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

This is getting increasingly troublesome !

Yes - that was a rusted subframe. Also replaced now.
&
no answer to why that was rusted - when I had paid for WURTH anti-rust coating (5 year package) - touched up and checked every 6 months - without fail !

It should not rust this bad even without the underbody coating - the weld joint was almost gone. The surrounding area of the weld is called "Heat Affected Zone" which will have slightly different mechanical (and sometimes chemical properties). Many weld joints corrode faster than the substrate, if the processes are not correctly followed.

Its a good idea to take a walk under your car when its put on a ramp when you get it serviced. Yea those guys will always tell customers are not allowed inside, but do insist and you will have your way. No one bothers more about your car than yourself.

Rusting does not happen overnight, and I expect the service advisor / technician to bring it to the notice of the owner.

[Tanmay K]

The Manza had been making a rattling noise when starting to pick up from the 1st gear for a few days. Guys at Tata were as helpful in diagnosis as a muppet would have been. Nevermind.

I took a look under the body and suspected the exhaust pipe could be making contact with the part of the chassis (right before the pre-silencer). Put in multiple layers of thick paper in between the two and that indeed killed the noise completely. Not really sure how this thing got bent in the first place; probably some underbody impact.

I'm suspecting that the exhaust pipe will get really hot and the paper might catch fire? Should I use a different material to act as cushion?

I'm wary of forcefully bending the exhaust pipe myself as that might break something. What are my options?



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