Starting problem when engine is HOT!

vartakavi · 13th August 2010, 16:22

I have a six year old Tata Indigo that has run 35000 Kms. The car came with an Exide OEM battery which I replaced 18 months ago with an Exide battery. I sometimes do not use the car for 4 to 6 weeks - I disconnect the battery when I do this. When I reconnect the battery, the car starts very easily, on the second or third try.

My car has a peculiar problem - it starts very well when the engine is cold, but refuses to start when the engine is hot! Either I wait for half an hour for the engine to cool or get the car push started (which I am able to do easily provided there is someone near to push the car!).

I mentioned this to the Service Advisor at Concorde Motors, Hyderabad, where I get the car serviced, but he just smiled and shrugged.

Of late, I am doing a number of long distance (400 to 500 kms a day) trips on the four laned NH7 where I usually maintain a speed of 100 Kmph. Because of this long distance driving, the 'Engine Hot - No Start' problem has become a nuisance. If the car stalls on a speedbreaker or at a Toll booth or I stop for a chai break, I have to push start the car. I am forced to keep the engine idling for short stops most of the time. When I stop for a meal, I park the car on a slope to facilitate easy pushing.

Has any other Tata Indica or Indigo car owner faced this problem? If anyone has found a solution to this problem, I will be grateful if you can share it with me. Thanks.

johnruben · 13th August 2010, 21:38

@vartakavi, This is not a common problem and I am sure you have something wrong in the hood.

My suggestion, drive your vehicle for 30-50km and then take to TASS and show them it doesn't start after engine heat-up, now they shouldn't be smiling.

vineetmanghani · 13th August 2010, 22:08

I have the exact same problem with my car. It is being discussed here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...oblem-nhc.html

Planning to go to the Honda service center tomorrow, will let you know if they can fix it...

mercedised · 13th August 2010, 22:15

Your Self-Starter motor is gone kaput. Get the self serviced. I faced a similar issue in my Indica and later the problem was sorted out with the service of Self motor.

SirAlec · 13th August 2010, 22:32

Try using a different battery. Loan it from some service guy that you know.

dhanushs · 13th August 2010, 23:42

Yes, just as SirAlec mentioned, try a new battery or a battery with better amp rating.

About an year before, I had my IKON's battery replaced. As it was my father who replaced it, he went for a cheaper option. Well, my father meant cheaper batteries, but as the dealer could not match his demand

, he fitted my car with lower (amp) rated batteries.

That week, even if the battery was new, we had the exact same problem. The car would start easily when engine was cold, but if the car has run about 100kms and if at all the AC is ON while turning off the engine, it wouldn't start at all. Wait about 15-30min, and it would start in one crank.

The A,S.S guys suggested to change the starting motor, the local mech suggested to clean the starting motor brushes, but then finally when I matched the battery rating with figures given in my IKON's manual, I found out that it was batteries that were the culprit. I changed it to the required rating and the problem vanished and has never occurred again.

P.S - You could also try checking your starting motor if batteries are fine.

blackasta · 14th August 2010, 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by vartakavi

I have a six year old Tata Indigo that has run 35000 Kms. The car came with an Exide OEM battery which I replaced 18 months ago with an Exide battery. I sometimes do not use the car for 4 to 6 weeks - I disconnect the battery when I do this. When I reconnect the battery, the car starts very easily, on the second or third try.

My car has a peculiar problem - it starts very well when the engine is cold, but refuses to start when the engine is hot! Either I wait for half an hour for the engine to cool or get the car push started (which I am able to do easily provided there is someone near to push the car!).

I mentioned this to the Service Advisor at Concorde Motors, Hyderabad, where I get the car serviced, but he just smiled and shrugged.

Of late, I am doing a number of long distance (400 to 500 kms a day) trips on the four laned NH7 where I usually maintain a speed of 100 Kmph. Because of this long distance driving, the 'Engine Hot - No Start' problem has become a nuisance. If the car stalls on a speedbreaker or at a Toll booth or I stop for a chai break, I have to push start the car. I am forced to keep the engine idling for short stops most of the time. When I stop for a meal, I park the car on a slope to facilitate easy pushing.

Has any other Tata Indica or Indigo car owner faced this problem? If anyone has found a solution to this problem, I will be grateful if you can share it with me. Thanks.

I presume this is due to vapor lock.

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The Pontiac that was Allergic to Vanilla Ice Cream

tsk1979 · 14th August 2010, 00:14

So when you say your car does not start, does it crank and not start, or it does not crank at all?

dhanushs · 14th August 2010, 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackasta

I presume this is due to vapor lock.

If the problem is due to Vapor Lock, then the engine should crank freely, without starting. If the engine does not crank at all or cranks with difficulty, then I presume it would be a different cause.

Please elaborate on the problem.

hemen · 14th August 2010, 18:59

this surely looks like a starter motor bushes getting hard.
it is a rubber part which expands when it get hot and doesnt let the motor to rotate.
i have faced this problem in my pre-2007 indicas.

vartakavi · 14th August 2010, 20:03

Thanks to all those who have replied.

When the engine is hot and I try to start the car, it does not crank AT at all - the starter behaves as if the battery was dead. I usually try the starter a few times and when the car does not start, I resort to push starting.

If the problem is due to Vapour Lock, should not the starter crank but not catch? In my car, there is no sound from the starter at all - the car behaves exactly as if the battery is dead. I got the battery checked up at the Exide Service Centre upon my return to town, and it was OK.

In the City, I have rarely faced this problem - even when I drive 25 kms in traffic for close to an hour with the AC on. The problem occurs only when I drive long distance.

One more thing - when I take a longer break say for lunch, sometimes the car starts OK, sometimes it gives the same trouble. In case the break is short, 99% of the time I am unable to start the car.

mercedised · 14th August 2010, 21:11

^^^ It clearly indicates that the Starter-motor is needed tobe serviced. Nothing other can be done. Get it serviced usually some brushes or winding will be done again. Cost will be approx 1000 Rs, as paid by me to a local electrician for Indica starter-motor repair.

Thanks.

14th August 2010, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by vartakavi

Thanks to all those who have replied.

When the engine is hot and I try to start the car, it does not crank AT at all - the starter behaves as if the battery was dead. I usually try the starter a few times and when the car does not start, I resort to push starting.

If the problem is due to Vapour Lock, should not the starter crank but not catch? In my car, there is no sound from the starter at all - the car behaves exactly as if the battery is dead. I got the battery checked up at the Exide Service Centre upon my return to town, and it was OK.

In the City, I have rarely faced this problem - even when I drive 25 kms in traffic for close to an hour with the AC on. The problem occurs only when I drive long distance.

One more thing - when I take a longer break say for lunch, sometimes the car starts OK, sometimes it gives the same trouble. In case the break is short, 99% of the time I am unable to start the car.

I am Having Indica 2003 model. I had also faced this problem. After 3 years, in the year 2006-2007, My car refused to start when engine is hot and when I tryied to start it behave like battery has gone. First I changed my battery but nothing was improoved.

My service advisor advised me that there is problem in self so I gave my car for self starter motr service. After that it was working fine for the next 9 months.

This time I gave my car to trans motors in Faridabad, and they did job perfectly( replaced my self motors and other parts which I do not remember) in the year 2009, and till today it is working fine.

My suggestion is first try to have service of self starter motor.

AK

Ferrari1976 · 14th August 2010, 21:50

@vartakavi:My Indica had the same problem. Trust me, most of the Indica's and Indigo's have this problem at some point in their lives. There are only two components that can go wrong here. The battery or the starter. Before you touch the starter, get the battery checked.

I am confident that the battery is the problem in this case.

Hashim · 14th August 2010, 22:33

As SirAlec said, loan a battery and switch to it when problem arise. It it starts then its clearly battery problem. If car still does not start then try pouring water over the starter motor solenoid (small cylinder like part attached to starter motor) and ask someone to start. If this resolves the problem then its sticking solenoid, just get it serviced. It gets carbon deposit inside which any electrician will clean it throughly with petrol and apply thin layer of engine oil over the solenoid piston, thats it.

13th August 2010, 16:22	#1
vartakavi BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Mysore Posts: 87 Thanked: 24 Times	Starting problem when engine is HOT! I have a six year old Tata Indigo that has run 35000 Kms. The car came with an Exide OEM battery which I replaced 18 months ago with an Exide battery. I sometimes do not use the car for 4 to 6 weeks - I disconnect the battery when I do this. When I reconnect the battery, the car starts very easily, on the second or third try. My car has a peculiar problem - it starts very well when the engine is cold, but refuses to start when the engine is hot! Either I wait for half an hour for the engine to cool or get the car push started (which I am able to do easily provided there is someone near to push the car!). I mentioned this to the Service Advisor at Concorde Motors, Hyderabad, where I get the car serviced, but he just smiled and shrugged. Of late, I am doing a number of long distance (400 to 500 kms a day) trips on the four laned NH7 where I usually maintain a speed of 100 Kmph. Because of this long distance driving, the 'Engine Hot - No Start' problem has become a nuisance. If the car stalls on a speedbreaker or at a Toll booth or I stop for a chai break, I have to push start the car. I am forced to keep the engine idling for short stops most of the time. When I stop for a meal, I park the car on a slope to facilitate easy pushing. Has any other Tata Indica or Indigo car owner faced this problem? If anyone has found a solution to this problem, I will be grateful if you can share it with me. Thanks.
	(1) Thanks

13th August 2010, 21:38	#2
johnruben BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 221 Thanked: 85 Times View My Garage	@vartakavi, This is not a common problem and I am sure you have something wrong in the hood. My suggestion, drive your vehicle for 30-50km and then take to TASS and show them it doesn't start after engine heat-up, now they shouldn't be smiling.
	() Thanks

13th August 2010, 22:08	#3
vineetmanghani BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: New Delhi <---> Posts: 79 Thanked: 10 Times	I have the exact same problem with my car. It is being discussed here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...oblem-nhc.html Planning to go to the Honda service center tomorrow, will let you know if they can fix it...
	(1) Thanks

13th August 2010, 22:15	#4
mercedised Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Indore Posts: 1,239 Thanked: 436 Times View My Garage	Your Self-Starter motor is gone kaput. Get the self serviced. I faced a similar issue in my Indica and later the problem was sorted out with the service of Self motor.
	() Thanks

13th August 2010, 22:32	#5
SirAlec Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: zxc Posts: 3,395 Thanked: 727 Times	Try using a different battery. Loan it from some service guy that you know.
	(1) Thanks

13th August 2010, 23:42	#6
dhanushs Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 4,372 Thanked: 10,728 Times	Yes, just as SirAlec mentioned, try a new battery or a battery with better amp rating. About an year before, I had my IKON's battery replaced. As it was my father who replaced it, he went for a cheaper option. Well, my father meant cheaper batteries, but as the dealer could not match his demand , he fitted my car with lower (amp) rated batteries. That week, even if the battery was new, we had the exact same problem. The car would start easily when engine was cold, but if the car has run about 100kms and if at all the AC is ON while turning off the engine, it wouldn't start at all. Wait about 15-30min, and it would start in one crank. The A,S.S guys suggested to change the starting motor, the local mech suggested to clean the starting motor brushes, but then finally when I matched the battery rating with figures given in my IKON's manual, I found out that it was batteries that were the culprit. I changed it to the required rating and the problem vanished and has never occurred again. P.S - You could also try checking your starting motor if batteries are fine.
	(2) Thanks

14th August 2010, 00:14	#8
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,726 Thanked: 23,061 Times View My Garage	So when you say your car does not start, does it crank and not start, or it does not crank at all?
	() Thanks

14th August 2010, 18:59	#10
hemen BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Bombay Posts: 91 Thanked: 49 Times	this surely looks like a starter motor bushes getting hard. it is a rubber part which expands when it get hot and doesnt let the motor to rotate. i have faced this problem in my pre-2007 indicas.
	() Thanks

14th August 2010, 20:03	#11
vartakavi BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Mysore Posts: 87 Thanked: 24 Times	Thanks Thanks to all those who have replied. When the engine is hot and I try to start the car, it does not crank AT at all - the starter behaves as if the battery was dead. I usually try the starter a few times and when the car does not start, I resort to push starting. If the problem is due to Vapour Lock, should not the starter crank but not catch? In my car, there is no sound from the starter at all - the car behaves exactly as if the battery is dead. I got the battery checked up at the Exide Service Centre upon my return to town, and it was OK. In the City, I have rarely faced this problem - even when I drive 25 kms in traffic for close to an hour with the AC on. The problem occurs only when I drive long distance. One more thing - when I take a longer break say for lunch, sometimes the car starts OK, sometimes it gives the same trouble. In case the break is short, 99% of the time I am unable to start the car.
	(1) Thanks

14th August 2010, 21:11	#12
mercedised Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Indore Posts: 1,239 Thanked: 436 Times View My Garage	^^^ It clearly indicates that the Starter-motor is needed tobe serviced. Nothing other can be done. Get it serviced usually some brushes or winding will be done again. Cost will be approx 1000 Rs, as paid by me to a local electrician for Indica starter-motor repair. Thanks.
	() Thanks

14th August 2010, 21:50	#14
Ferrari1976 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 216 Thanked: 93 Times	@vartakavi:My Indica had the same problem. Trust me, most of the Indica's and Indigo's have this problem at some point in their lives. There are only two components that can go wrong here. The battery or the starter. Before you touch the starter, get the battery checked. I am confident that the battery is the problem in this case.
	(1) Thanks

14th August 2010, 22:33	#15
Hashim BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Aligarh Posts: 449 Thanked: 49 Times View My Garage	As SirAlec said, loan a battery and switch to it when problem arise. It it starts then its clearly battery problem. If car still does not start then try pouring water over the starter motor solenoid (small cylinder like part attached to starter motor) and ask someone to start. If this resolves the problem then its sticking solenoid, just get it serviced. It gets carbon deposit inside which any electrician will clean it throughly with petrol and apply thin layer of engine oil over the solenoid piston, thats it.
	(1) Thanks