[Ameya Janvekar]

Originally Posted by sujithsidhardha

New Hint: I checked the multi meter method again for checking battery. During cold start, voltage is not dropping below 10 volt. But when hot and with starting issue, it drops to less than 2 volt and then to 0 like a short circuit. Is the starter armature again be the culprit? If so, why it worked without any issues for around 3 months and the same scenario is recurring?

> Could be a poor earthing for the battery or the starter. Rather than the Starter Armature it could also be the Starter Brushes.

This may cause the short circuit phenomenon as hinted.

Rgds

Ameya

[sujithsidhardha]

Originally Posted by Ameya Janvekar

> Could be a poor earthing for the battery or the starter. Rather than the Starter Armature it could also be the Starter Brushes.
Ameya

Checked the earth cable fixed to engine. Tried replacing existing cable with a new one as well. But no change.

Starter brushes are the most ones that was replaced as part of rectification and overhauling of starter motor was done many times as well. As a last resort the armature was replaced few months back.

Originally Posted by Ameya Janvekar

>
This may cause the short circuit phenomenon as hinted.
Ameya

Read and heard about the effect of temperature on batteries and electrical items. Would the high temperature change the properties of starter motor or battery combination like a short circuit? If so, any suggestions to identify the culprit.

1. Reduction of battery power - This was ruled out, as th same battery is working fine with another vehicle at the same time i am having issues. Tried the other battery on my car and it failed to start. Battery is around 4 years old.

2. Starter Motor - Not sure about this. IMO, it should not be the culprit 80%, as an overhaul and armature change was done along with a change of soleinoid recently.

3. Engine itself - Anything resisting the starter motor to crank, when engine is hot? "Hot" in the sense, anything above the minimum temperature mark on gauge.

Meanwhile, came across a site with detailed troubleshooting and diagnostic guides for auto diagnostics. May be a familiar one. Posting the link for the ones who need it.

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/misc-...on-car-tests-1

[sgiitk]

I faced this in my Santro. It was a dying battery. Replaced the battery with a new one and everything was normal.

[sujithsidhardha]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I faced this in my Santro. It was a dying battery. Replaced the battery with a new one and everything was normal.

During the situation, i tried another battery on my car and it failed to start as well. That was not a new one, but taken from another santro that was working fine.

Since the battery is around 4 years old, me too have a minor doubt. But at the same time, recurring issues from the beginning keeps me away from suspecting the battery. In this condition, is it wise to buy a new battery?

One more thing i missed is that, during these 14 years of ownership, i couldn't sense this much heat on the area to the left of dead pedal. But now, if i touch the marked area in attached image, i could sense heat very well. (Apologies, since its an Alto's image, but santro also has a similar location),

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by sujithsidhardha

Current Status: I am back to Square one. After the last work, there were no issues for about 2-3 months. Then things started rolling back.

Could you list out in detail what was the work done which gave you temporary relief?

Regards '
Sutripta

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I faced this in my Santro. It was a dying battery. Replaced the battery with a new one and everything was normal.

I too faced a similar problem with my Indica DLS way back in 2005. The dealer did so many trial-and-error thingies without any positive result. Their only clue was "the starter motor is not getting enough current". The car will not start if it's stalled or switched off in a red signal and I need to wait for 2-5 minutes before cranking again. Otherwise only a "phu..phu" noise can be heard. The Indica, being grossly underpowered and very easy to get stalled, had made my a very alert driver with my right foot. I was forced to turn off the AC to eliminate possible stalls while driving through crawling traffic.

After nearly three years, the car's Exide battery died thankfully and I replaced it with an Amaron and the moment it was in place, the problem disappeared.

[sujithsidhardha]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Could you list out in detail what was the work done which gave you temporary relief?

Regards '
Sutripta

Last time, Starter motor armature changed and it gave me the relief. Earlier, overhaul of starter motor helped 3-4 times. Change of battery cables helped 2 years ago. It was pretty sure at that time, since the conectors were bit loose, even after tighting to the maximum limit.

[tanwaramit]

Originally Posted by sujithsidhardha

1. Reduction of battery power - This was ruled out, as th same battery is working fine with another vehicle at the same time i am having issues. Tried the other battery on my car and it failed to start. Battery is around 4 years old.

2. Starter Motor - Not sure about this. IMO, it should not be the culprit 80%, as an overhaul and armature change was done along with a change of soleinoid recently.

3. Engine itself - Anything resisting the starter motor to crank, when engine is hot? "Hot" in the sense, anything above the minimum temperature mark on gauge.

I had started this thread after struggling with this problem for nearly 6 years on my Santro. Earlier years of car ownership, I used to think that the battery has gone bad (hence car is not starting when hot) and I used to replace it almost on a yearly basis.

However, it took me some time to understand that there is some other problem underneath and I went about investigating the same.

Did everything, Cleaning of starter motor, armature, to the extent of new starter motor. It used to run fine for a few months before the problem recurred.

I stuck to one Hyundai ASC and used to go back to them every three months when the problem resurfaced. Asked them to put their best man on the job and get help from Hyundai company if required.

I bought multimeter and used to regularly test the battery voltage with hood open. Neighbours used to think that I am advanced mechanic to test the battery voltage daily morning and evening. I read every material online, kept a track of battery voltage statistics for every scenario, cold start, hot start, shut down etc etc. It was getting on my nerves to find the issue.

Sticking to one ASC was the best thing, as in their all job cards it was mentioned as a recurring issue and I used to shout at them, since I had to return back for the same problem, which according to them they had fixed (remember, they replaced my starter motor too). Finally, one of their electrician found the issue as my battery losing juice due to parasitic drain. Since I had an aftermarket music system (installed at Hyundai dealership only), this was causing the continuos leak from the battery. Must be to save settings etc. The leakage wasn't too high to be noticed, but this was a parasitic drain (its a term usually called). The electrician connected the multimeter and also via a light bulb to show me that the circuit is consuming electricity at short intervals of time. Like blinking.

I removed the source of problem itself, yes, the music system was disconnected (now its just a non working show piece) and since that battery had its vitals sucked by parasitic drain, I changed the battery (this time used Amaron). Its been more than four years now and the problem hasn't recurred. Car has done 1.63L kms as of now.

Though, I am missing my music system, initially I had installed a separate wiring with a switch which disconnects power to the music system , however, doing setting everytime was a pain and I am better without it.

So right now, my this battery is holding good for last four years. Car starts in a jiffy, and I do not miss my music system. I love the sound of revving of my car engine now.

I would advise you to check for parasitic drain in your car, plenty of videos available online. Remove the source and install a new battery, as this battery won't last long, its vitals has gone (which require it to support during hot start), only shell is there.

Its like a human body (which doesn't exercise) is there, but in olympics you need an athletic body for that race. From outside you won't differentiate much, but real test is during race (long race).

Do keep us posted.

[sujithsidhardha]

Originally Posted by tanwaramit

I had started this thread after struggling with this problem for nearly 6 years on my Santro. Earlier years of car ownership, I used to think that the battery has gone bad (hence car is not starting when hot) and I used to replace it almost on a yearly basis.

However, it took me some time to understand that there is some other problem underneath and I went about investigating the same.

Did everything, Cleaning of starter motor, armature, to the extent of new starter motor. It used to run fine for a few months before the problem recurred.

I would advise you to check for parasitic drain in your car, plenty of videos available online. Remove the source and install a new battery, as this battery won't last long, its vitals has gone (which require it to support during hot start), only shell is there.
Do keep us posted.

Thank you for pointing the chance. I had this in mind. But i ruled out the possibility,since cold starts were flawless. But hearing your experience, i am defenitely going check this.

[Sutripta]

If you are on friendly terms with the ASC, try getting a loan starter to use for a couple of days. Otherwise you will have to run down esoteric problems like

a) Check out the connections between solenoid and field coils, and field coils and brush plate. The if connection is with rivets, esp. Aluminium ones, expect weird problems.

b) When exactly the pinion meshes with the ring gear, in relation with the armature being energised.

Assuming that you have tried all possible combinations of batteries, and the problem remained.

Regards
Sutripta

[lurker]

It definitely is a starter problem, sometimes starter misbehaves and sometimes it works. It seems placement of starter in hyundai santro is next to a heat source like exhaust or some other heat aberration and due to this reason the starter is misbehaving when the heat gets high. Even if you change the parts on the starter it will continue to misbehave.

Either get a brand new starter. Or change location of starter to someplace less susceptible to heat.
http://www.partsbigboss.in/starter-a...26925283d.html

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by lurker

Either get a brand new starter. Or change location of starter to someplace less susceptible to heat.

It's not possible to relocate a starter motor. It is mounted at a particular spot on the bell housing.

[lurker]

In an AT it is right next to transmission and/or exhaust. Both are heat sources. The starter has some component getting jammed due to high heat. It is actually a design issue and has been reported even in aston martins.

[R2D2]

In some cars the starter's rotor or bendix may be getting affected by heat. Maybe it is the rotor bearings? The question is why is this happening only in the OP's car? I have known people owning the Hyundai Santro and have never faced this issue.

[lurker]

If I were the person affected with this, I would have started with 2 things.

1. Replace starter with brand new one.

2. Change transmission oil, in hope that the new oil conducts heat much better than old one.

the poster has mentioned that par of his floor just ahead of the gear box is getting abnormally hot. That is the reason for his starter jamming as well. When he finds out cause of this abnormal heat, maybe starter will start to work fine again

else even with new starter the problem may reappear in few months.

also if floor board is getting hot abnormally, check your catalytic converter for leaks, or exhaust pipe having developed leak. Or catcon is jammed etc. This heat also may cause starter to jam esp if location of starter is next to cat con.