How harmful is extra Engine Oil?

Ricky_63 · 2nd May 2007, 09:55

Hi

Just wanted to know, if it's OK to have a little excess engine oil in the sump after the engine has been re-done ? The car in question is a Lancer GLXi.

I noticed that the engine oil level was higher than the max-mark on the dip-stick, when I brought this to the notice of the person concerned, I was told that it is kept above MAX LEVEL for the initial 1000 kms & subsequently it will have oil upto the Max Level

This did not make much sense to me - but I am no Great Gun as car engines go, so I just heard him, but this has been on my mind & I thought I should post this here on the forum & get some informed views from the Gurus on the subject.

Thanks in advance

Ford Rocam · 2nd May 2007, 11:18

How much higher is it? the best time to check oil level is in the morning, once you park your car in night in straight ground level, check it next morning before cranking it up.
may be the concerned person was predicting some oil leak hence he added as an precaution. imo it should not be a problem if its slightly over on max mark on dipstick.

nitrous · 2nd May 2007, 11:33

Too much oil in the sump would make the Crankshaft churn the oil and make froth.

Jaggu · 2nd May 2007, 12:16

can damage the engine oil seals also ie too much, a lil above mark is fine

Ricky_63 · 2nd May 2007, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford Rocam

How much higher is it? the best time to check oil level is in the morning, once you park your car in night in straight ground level, check it next morning before cranking it up.
may be the concerned person was predicting some oil leak hence he added as an precaution. imo it should not be a problem if its slightly over on max mark on dipstick.

If the difference on the MIN & MAX level is say 1.5" then it is .5" above the max mark. Is that bad for the engine per se ??

Thanks

2fast4u · 2nd May 2007, 14:06

best is to have it below the max mark on dipstick but surely above the low mark.
more oil @nitrous said churns to froth and inside the crankcase pressure build up quite natural and it needs a way out so it will rupture the rear or front oil seal. repair rear oil seal in rwd is a pain i dont know how easy it would be in fwd.

Rehaan · 2nd May 2007, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky_63

If the difference on the MIN & MAX level is say 1.5" then it is .5" above the max mark. Is that bad for the engine per se ??

Thanks

Sounds like a fairly large amount.

However, make sure you are using the correct measuring procedure as FORD_ROCAM mentioned.

In theory (ive never had an experience with this) more oil can cause issues as mentioned above by others.
When i get my car back from servicing and the brake fluid is above the max mark i usually use a syringe to take out the excess... apparently its bad for the seals etc.

2fast4u, in terms of pressure build up rupturing the seals, wouldnt the presence of the PCV prevent that?

cya
R

Ricky_63 · 2nd May 2007, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Sounds like a fairly large amount.

However, make sure you are using the correct measuring procedure as FORD_ROCAM mentioned.

In theory (ive never had an experience with this) more oil can cause issues as mentioned above by others.
When i get my car back from servicing and the brake fluid is above the max mark i usually use a syringe to take out the excess... apparently its bad for the seals etc.

2fast4u, in terms of pressure build up rupturing the seals, wouldnt the presence of the PCV prevent that?

cya
R

I am pretty sure that I am checking the oil level properly.......I did check with my garage again pointedly & was told that there is no problem. Once the run-in is over, they will change the engine oil to Mobil 1 & use the recoomended 3.5 lts.

Thanks for all the inputs.

Cheers

Sideways · 3rd May 2007, 02:15

Ricky, I suggest you read the following very carefully and slowly. Infact if anybody has his number, i would request they call him immediately.

What happens when an engine is overfilled with oil?

So you topped up the engine when it was warm after getting a faulty dipstick reading, or you put too much oil in when you changed it yourself. What's the worst that could happen? Well the problem with this is that the next time the engine is run, the windage in the crankcase and other pressures generated by the oil pump, etc. place a great strain on the seal on the rear main bearing.

Eventually, often much sooner than the ordinary man in the street might expect, the rear main bearing seal ruptures, and the engine becomes a 'leaker'. If you've got a manual gearbox, this means one thing: this oil goes right onto the flywheel and the face of the clutch disc. A lubricated clutch is A Bad Thing. If this still goes unnoticed, the front seal is the next to go, and the engine then becomes a 'gusher' (or to be more colourful, it starts pissing oil all over the place). As well as smothering the clutch with oil from the rear, the oil now coming from the front leak will be neatly distributed about the engine bay as it hits the front pulley - often propelling it out as far as the brake discs. At the same time as this Hollywood disaster movie is unfolding outside the engine, things aren't working out any better on the inside. As you can see from the diagram, the correct oil level is really close to the rotating crank. Overfilling will mean the crank dips into the oil and churns it into a froth. Froth is good on certain types of coffee but not good in an engine. The mixture of aerated oil will be forced into the bearings and in case you didn't know, air is not a lubricant. Typically this means that bearing damage will follow quite rapidly, especially if you are driving on a motorway. You'll know bearing damage when you get it. The engine smells like a garage mechanic cooking over an open flame and the noise coming from the engine is the sort of thing you'd normally hear in vaudeville plays when a piano is pushed down a flight of stairs. As if that all wasn't bad enough, the excess oil gets thrown up into the piston bores where the piston rings have a hard time coping with the excess oil and pressure. It gets into the combustion chamber and some of it will get out into the exhaust system unburned resulting in a nice patina of oil all over the platinum surfaces of your catalytic converter. This renders it utterly useless for good.

Please refer to the picture by clicking on the link below

Source: - Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible

And since you've just spent a whole lotta money rebuilding your engine, i suggest you do the needful immediately. As a reference, ideal amount of oil in an engine should be just below the max mark on the dip stick. As Jitu (ford Rocam) has suggested, best time is to check in the morning. If you've driven the car fo a while, wait for about half an hour for it to cool and check.

Hope this helps.

Ricky_63 · 3rd May 2007, 10:37

Thanks Sideways for your advice. I shall get the engine oil reduced to the recomended level straightaway. Did not realize it could actually lead to engine damage, although I am still in the reun in phase so not driving on very high RPM yet.

Thanks

2fast4u · 3rd May 2007, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Sounds like a fairly large amount.

However, make sure you are using the correct measuring procedure as FORD_ROCAM mentioned.

In theory (ive never had an experience with this) more oil can cause issues as mentioned above by others.
When i get my car back from servicing and the brake fluid is above the max mark i usually use a syringe to take out the excess... apparently its bad for the seals etc.

2fast4u, in terms of pressure build up rupturing the seals, wouldnt the presence of the PCV prevent that?

cya

R

rehaan@ the pcv is for crankcase gas release and this gets to inlet (air intake) again. There is very less chance that oil should get thru into the pcv as theres an oil separator mesh which if gone bad will allow the oil thru into the inlet and then u will have all sorts of erratic idle etc.
btw a regular cleanup if in good condition of pcv at each service will see ur engine idle very smooth.

headers · 3rd May 2007, 12:53

well..thanks sideways for the very graphic explanation..i never realised a little engine oil in excess could create such issues..

Ricky_63..hope u have reduced the oil by now..

Ricky_63 · 7th May 2007, 19:17

Thanks everybody ............needful done, though the gentleman maintains that "ABOVE MAX WILL NOT BE A PROBLEM"

To Each His Own..........

Cheers

2fast4u · 8th May 2007, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky_63

Thanks everybody ............needful done, though the gentleman maintains that "ABOVE MAX WILL NOT BE A PROBLEM"

To Each His Own..........

Cheers

Thats how they create a potential customer.

gemithomas · 19th February 2008, 11:31

How can you reduce the oil level if it is above the max mark. I mean is there any way to drain out a little of the oil??

2nd May 2007, 09:55	#1
Ricky_63 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,885 Thanked: 519 Times View My Garage	Excess engine oil in sump Hi Just wanted to know, if it's OK to have a little excess engine oil in the sump after the engine has been re-done ? The car in question is a Lancer GLXi. I noticed that the engine oil level was higher than the max-mark on the dip-stick, when I brought this to the notice of the person concerned, I was told that it is kept above MAX LEVEL for the initial 1000 kms & subsequently it will have oil upto the Max Level This did not make much sense to me - but I am no Great Gun as car engines go, so I just heard him, but this has been on my mind & I thought I should post this here on the forum & get some informed views from the Gurus on the subject. Thanks in advance
	() Thanks

2nd May 2007, 11:18	#2
Ford Rocam BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai-India Posts: 878 Thanked: 23 Times	How much higher is it? the best time to check oil level is in the morning, once you park your car in night in straight ground level, check it next morning before cranking it up. may be the concerned person was predicting some oil leak hence he added as an precaution. imo it should not be a problem if its slightly over on max mark on dipstick.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2007, 11:33	#3
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 329 Times View My Garage	Too much oil in the sump would make the Crankshaft churn the oil and make froth.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2007, 12:16	#4
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,310 Thanked: 16,619 Times	can damage the engine oil seals also ie too much, a lil above mark is fine
	() Thanks

2nd May 2007, 14:06	#6
2fast4u BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: pune / Bahrain Posts: 488 Thanked: 7 Times View My Garage	best is to have it below the max mark on dipstick but surely above the low mark. more oil @nitrous said churns to froth and inside the crankcase pressure build up quite natural and it needs a way out so it will rupture the rear or front oil seal. repair rear oil seal in rwd is a pain i dont know how easy it would be in fwd.
	() Thanks

3rd May 2007, 02:15	#9
Sideways BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Madras - India Posts: 641 Thanked: 31 Times View My Garage	Ricky, I suggest you read the following very carefully and slowly. Infact if anybody has his number, i would request they call him immediately. What happens when an engine is overfilled with oil? So you topped up the engine when it was warm after getting a faulty dipstick reading, or you put too much oil in when you changed it yourself. What's the worst that could happen? Well the problem with this is that the next time the engine is run, the windage in the crankcase and other pressures generated by the oil pump, etc. place a great strain on the seal on the rear main bearing. Eventually, often much sooner than the ordinary man in the street might expect, the rear main bearing seal ruptures, and the engine becomes a 'leaker'. If you've got a manual gearbox, this means one thing: this oil goes right onto the flywheel and the face of the clutch disc. A lubricated clutch is A Bad Thing. If this still goes unnoticed, the front seal is the next to go, and the engine then becomes a 'gusher' (or to be more colourful, it starts pissing oil all over the place). As well as smothering the clutch with oil from the rear, the oil now coming from the front leak will be neatly distributed about the engine bay as it hits the front pulley - often propelling it out as far as the brake discs. At the same time as this Hollywood disaster movie is unfolding outside the engine, things aren't working out any better on the inside. As you can see from the diagram, the correct oil level is really close to the rotating crank. Overfilling will mean the crank dips into the oil and churns it into a froth. Froth is good on certain types of coffee but not good in an engine. The mixture of aerated oil will be forced into the bearings and in case you didn't know, air is not a lubricant. Typically this means that bearing damage will follow quite rapidly, especially if you are driving on a motorway. You'll know bearing damage when you get it. The engine smells like a garage mechanic cooking over an open flame and the noise coming from the engine is the sort of thing you'd normally hear in vaudeville plays when a piano is pushed down a flight of stairs. As if that all wasn't bad enough, the excess oil gets thrown up into the piston bores where the piston rings have a hard time coping with the excess oil and pressure. It gets into the combustion chamber and some of it will get out into the exhaust system unburned resulting in a nice patina of oil all over the platinum surfaces of your catalytic converter. This renders it utterly useless for good. Please refer to the picture by clicking on the link below Source: - Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible And since you've just spent a whole lotta money rebuilding your engine, i suggest you do the needful immediately. As a reference, ideal amount of oil in an engine should be just below the max mark on the dip stick. As Jitu (ford Rocam) has suggested, best time is to check in the morning. If you've driven the car fo a while, wait for about half an hour for it to cool and check. Hope this helps. Last edited by Sideways : 3rd May 2007 at 02:20.
	(3) Thanks

3rd May 2007, 10:37	#10
Ricky_63 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,885 Thanked: 519 Times View My Garage	Thanks Sideways for your advice. I shall get the engine oil reduced to the recomended level straightaway. Did not realize it could actually lead to engine damage, although I am still in the reun in phase so not driving on very high RPM yet. Thanks
	() Thanks

3rd May 2007, 12:53	#12
headers Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Greater Chennai Posts: 4,667 Thanked: 559 Times	well..thanks sideways for the very graphic explanation..i never realised a little engine oil in excess could create such issues.. Ricky_63..hope u have reduced the oil by now..
	() Thanks

7th May 2007, 19:17	#13
Ricky_63 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,885 Thanked: 519 Times View My Garage	Thanks everybody ............needful done, though the gentleman maintains that "ABOVE MAX WILL NOT BE A PROBLEM" To Each His Own.......... Cheers
	() Thanks

19th February 2008, 11:31	#15
gemithomas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,366 Thanked: 143 Times View My Garage	How can you reduce the oil level if it is above the max mark. I mean is there any way to drain out a little of the oil??
	() Thanks