[cheap_deal]

Originally Posted by RonXRi94

Hey guys...Need help with a Skoda problem

My 30k kms run Fabia's clutch pedal gets stuck to the floor after changing gears and the car starts to move on its own, with the clutch stuck to the floor. The clutch can be pulled back with my foot, which is still fine on an empty road, but in stop and go traffic, the only way to stop the car is by killing the engine.

I've noticed that pumping the clutch 3-4 times before using it makes it work fine for a couple of gearshifts, and then it's back to its problematic ways.

Took the car to JMD Auto, Kandivali 2 days back. The SA took one look at the clutch's behaviour, and coolly asked us to replace the clutch plates, flywheel, master cylinder and slave cylinder. He gave an estimate of approx 50k for the job, and asked us to leave the car there for 4 days because parts were not in stock.

I was not convinced about having to change the entire clutch assembly and we drove away. Any ideas what can be the issue?

Replace the clutch slave cylinder and master cylinder and your good to go. Find an independent garage to do the above.

[shansundar]

Dear Experts,

I need your help with my i20 Asta Petrol. My car is 6 years old. I had to drive through knee level water, during the December 2015 floods in Chennai. The clutch was very hard to use after that. Gave the car to Hyundai authorized service center. The SA said, Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder were good and the cover assembly had to be replaced. By then my car had run 47XXX kilometers. I asked him to change and it was super smooth. After this I was out of country for 3 months. (Still the car was being used once in a week). The hard clutch problem started again recently, making it irritating to drive. If let to cool down, it would be all right for a while and then start showing its rough face. This was too difficult for me in the stop and go Chennai traffic. I gave the car for service yesterday and they asked approval for Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder replacement.

There were no signs of fluid leakage, the clutch was not loose, it was super hard. I was against replacing and asked them to do bleeding to check if it would help. I got the car back today and there is no luck. It is in the same bad state and I ended up spending for the periodical service. SA says, this will be completely resolved only if Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder are replaced. I took my car to an independent garage guy. The moment he pressed the clutch, he said the cover assembly is gone. When he pressed the clutch, I could see the Slave Cylinder getting engaged completely. The SA claims that, even if the Slave Cylinder engages completely, the pressure might not be enough. He says, master cylinder and slave cylinder start misbehaving when they are hot.

Is this a cover assembly problem or a Master / Slave cylinder one ? I am confused if I should budge for a replacement. Please guide me.


Worst part is, my engine compartment had a dead snake (a smaller one) and these guys did not even care to remove it. I happened to see it when I opened he bonnet to inspect the Slave Cylinder.

[hrbheda]

Originally Posted by shansundar

I need your help with my i20 Asta Petrol.

When I replaced the clutch in my i20, I chose not to replace the Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder. After about 2000kms I started facing problems. The clutch pedal after being depressed would return to it's normal position but the clutch itself was taking a long time to engage. Especially if the car was hot. There were no fluid leaks and like yours, the clutch was super hard to operate. I had to get the Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder replaced immediately.
In my opinion, get both the cylinders replaced. And if you prefer, get it done from your FNG. The ASS charges too much.
Hope this helps.

[shansundar]

Thanks a lot hrbheda. Exactly the same problem as mine and nearly after the same mileage. If I go for replacement, it will be for both. I remember reading elsewhere, replacing once of the cylinders would trigger problems in future. The authorized service center quotes 3600 for Master Cylinder, 3500 for Slave Cylinder and 700 as labour charges. Do you think I can settle for a lesser price ? I am very skeptical about giving my car to independent garage guys for service or replacement.

[hrbheda]

Originally Posted by shansundar

The authorized service center quotes 3600 for Master Cylinder, 3500 for Slave Cylinder and 700 as labour charges. Do you think I can settle for a lesser price ? I am very skeptical about giving my car to independent garage guys for service or replacement.

If you can, ask around your FNGs regarding the cost.
I think they have missed out on fluid costs since it needs to be refilled and then bled. You may need to reconfirm regarding the same.
You can always choose to go to the ASS if you don't trust the FNGs or if the cost is almost the same.
One advantage of giving it to the ASS is that they give you a 6month/10k km warranty.

[shansundar]

Update to the issue I was facing.
Both Master and Slave cylinders were replaced and the clutch works like charm now. Overall cost including taxes came around 7600 rupees. Looks like this issue is due to the slave cylinder wearing out. The service advisor was unable to explain it's connection to earlier cover assembly replacement and whether it is a generic problem with i20. The bill mentioned master cylinder as Clutch Assembly - Master Cylinder and the Slave cylinder as Clutch Assembly - Release Cylinder. The service advisor says, slave cylinder is the release cylinder. Is that right ? Any clarification on this is much appreciated. I feel at peace after getting clarified here before spending money. Thank You All !

[hrbheda]

Originally Posted by shansundar

The service advisor was unable to explain it's connection to earlier cover assembly replacement and whether it is a generic problem with i20. The bill mentioned master cylinder as Clutch Assembly - Master Cylinder and the Slave cylinder as Clutch Assembly - Release Cylinder. The service advisor says, slave cylinder is the release cylinder. Is that right ?

I had the cylinders replaced at my FNG so cannot comment on the item in the bill.
Regarding the generic issue, my mechanic told me that for my car specifically it was due to excessive stop and go traffic. According to him having to engage and disengage excessively made them go bad.
Apart from the issue just FYI he also told me that the i20 had one common generic issue - the EPS motor. It can be seen when the steering wheel vibrates at either the right or the left lock to lock position. I can verify the symptoms since he repaired it for me and now it's working fine.

[shatananda.k]

I have given my Xcent for second free service in Trident (Hosur road)
Recommendations were
a) Change in oil and oil filter: Rs.1500
b) Wheel alignment and balancing: Rs.1300
c) Emission test: Rs.100
d) Lacquering the engine bay: Rs.950
e) Interior detailing: Rs.1850 + taxes

I agreed for the top 3 items. Later read about Engine lacquering in team-bhp. Learnt that is a scam.
For detailing, he said the dashboard will be polished, seat cleaned etc. I refused this as well. Does it really cost this much ? What is the charge if done outside ?

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by shatananda.k

For detailing, he said the dashboard will be polished, seat cleaned etc. I refused this as well. Does it really cost this much ? What is the charge if done outside ?

Total load of bull..

When I had visited 3M for a regular foam wash, they did the following for Rs 1400 - External foam wash followed by Polishing and interior cleaning, tyre polish. Though they did want to Polish the dashboard but I disagreed because if one polishes the dashboard, the reflections on the windscreen become unbearable so I avoided it.

Hyundai is looting. Don't get that lacquer coating done at any cost. Just follow what the owners manual says for every service.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by shatananda.k

For detailing, he said the dashboard will be polished, seat cleaned etc. I refused this as well. Does it really cost this much ? What is the charge if done outside ?

I have 2 garages in my neighborhood who wash and clean cars. They both charge 300 & 350 respectively to wash the car (after lifting it), mild vacuuming the interiors and polishing the dashboard and door panels. And they do a good job too.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by shatananda.k

I have given my Xcent for second free service in Trident (Hosur road)
Recommendations were
a) Change in oil and oil filter: Rs.1500
b) Wheel alignment and balancing: Rs.1300
c) Emission test: Rs.100
d) Lacquering the engine bay: Rs.950
e) Interior detailing: Rs.1850 + taxes

I agreed for the top 3 items. Later read about Engine lacquering in team-bhp. Learnt that is a scam.
For detailing, he said the dashboard will be polished, seat cleaned etc. I refused this as well. Does it really cost this much ? What is the charge if done outside ?

b,d,e, all gyps to buff up the bill.
Interior and exterior cleaning, which is what ASC is doing, not "detailing", would cost you 1500 bucks outside, high side.

[shatananda.k]

Originally Posted by ashis89

They both charge 300 & 350 respectively to wash the car (after lifting it)

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Hyundai is looting. Don't get that lacquer coating done at any cost. Just follow what the owners manual says for every service.

Originally Posted by mayankk

Interior and exterior cleaning, which is what ASC is doing, not "detailing", would cost you 1500 bucks outside, high side.

Thanks for all your replies
A quick query regarding wheel balancing and alignment. Is it really needed every 10K Kms. Or only if we sense vibrations/pull to a side when driving. Sorry if this has been clarified earlier. I want to know if future issues can be avoided if this is regularly followed.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by shatananda.k

Thanks for all your replies
A quick query regarding wheel balancing and alignment. Is it really needed every 10K Kms. Or only if we sense vibrations/pull to a side when driving.

It is best for the tyres, suspension components, comfort etc of done every 10K kms.

I do it every 5K kms.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by shatananda.k

A quick query regarding wheel balancing and alignment. Is it really needed every 10K Kms. Or only if we sense vibrations/pull to a side when driving. Sorry if this has been clarified earlier. I want to know if future issues can be avoided if this is regularly followed.

Depending on driving like suppose the running is around 1k kms per month, you have to do the alignment every 6 months or 5-6k kms and the balancing every 10k kms. In Bangalore with the present state of roads this is essential as even with my careful style of driving the alignment doesn't stay perfect more than for 6 months.

Also Trident or any other authorised station is the last place I'd give for wheel alignment.. they never do a perfect job in which case you're just paying them to keep the tyres misaligned. Its better to give it to a specialized tyre store who have 3D alignment machine, they can get it perfect to the last degree.

Mod Note : Its better that this post and the six above be moved to Dealership Experiences thread.

[rishab1987]

From the onset I am an avid Toyota fan and Own a 2010 Toyota Fortuner & a 2013 Innova both of which are regularly serviced at MGF Gurgaon who arrange Pick up and Drops and have not faced any problems till now.

I'll like to be as brief and precise and lay down the facts of the case :

08/05/2016 - Mileage - 1,45,332 KM
Fortuner is scheduled for its 1,45,000 KM Service, it is decided that clutch has to be overhauled. Car is picked up and dropped clutch is Overhauled ( Cost approx 25,000/- ) Invoice is attached for your reference.

Problem Faced : Nothing major clutch is soft car drives well only small issue is a slight judder in 1st Gear & Reverse when less throttle is used, thinking clutch will settle down after break in I keep driving the vehicle.

08/06/2016 - Mileage - 1,47,000 KM approx
Judder problem is still there feels a little worse, call MGF receptionist forwards me Number of a SA, talk to him who assures nothing major says I can bring in vehicle if problem persists we decide that it can be addressed in 1,50,000 KM Service

Problem Faced : Judder in First & Reverse

02/07/2016 - Mileage - 1,49,603 KM
Fortuner is scheduled for 1,50,000 KM Service, the pick up guy is the same that I have been dealing with, discuss the problem He asks to write it down in the Pick Up sheet do so car is sent for Service. Car is returned and am assured by SA that there is no problem with Vehicle, Pick up is fine Clutch is perfect.

Problem Faced : Judder still present getting a bit annoyed now

09/07/2016 - Mileage - 1,49,971 KM
Get the feedback call about service of Innova, tell her that not satisfied with Service of Fortuner she arranges a new Appointment schedule it for 09/07 as it is convenient. My driver takes the vehicle, after waiting 2+ hours and a TD they tell him the car is perfect no problem with clutch we are imagining the problem. MY driver calls me "Bhaiya yeh job card nahi khol rahe aap ajao" I reach their Workshop from Manesar very irritated have a debate Mr. Gagan reluctantly agrees to open the clutch but makes plenty sure that I am imagining the Problem as He, Mr. Vikram (SA) & Lead Engineer have taken TD pick up and everything is fine.

Problem Faced : Judder still present in front of SA and Lead Engineer they say I'm imagining the problem

In the evening I am informed Clutch is burnt and clutch assembly has to be replaced asks for my approval, disagree that how can clutch assembly burn so early when the earlier lasted 1,45,000 KM says there is no warranty on clutch and needs to be replaced after 4,269 KM due to over riding on my part, ask him to give me in writing that the clutch needs to be changed so I can take up matter with Toyota says will ask and come back

10/07/2016
No call from MGF call them at noon to ask for Letter says there are no Letterhead to write on. After 10 Mins of discussion agrees to email immediately, no email is received.

11/07/2016
Vague email is received saying clutch is burnt and needs to be replaced within 4,639 KMs says since I am a regular customer they can offer a discount on change of "defective part" am asked to meet boss on 12/07/2016 to resolve issue

12/07/2016
Reach MGF Toyota am taken into cabin of Boss who discusses with someone that the Flywheel is also burnt and should be changed. I am getting angry, sit there nod and ask them to send me an estimate. Boss offers to pay for labour and Parts will be charged at cost price. Get an estimate of 51,596/- with labour and normal parts cost.

Problem Faced : This is the first time that I am informed that the Flywheel is also now burnt get angry but wait for Final figure.

13/07/2016
Waiting for call from Boss or Someone, no call. Call boss in the evening am informed that he is out of station someone will call and give me final breakup, am offered a discount of 5,000/- which means i have to shell out 44,000/- - 45,000/-. Lose my mind tell him to keep his charity and close up my clutch will talk to Toyota

14/07/2016
Get a call from the same Someone that we can close at 42,000/- gently decline ask him to close my clutch and give me complete history of my car so I can take up matter with Toyota. Email Toyota and then I open this thread.

Now,

I have not seen the parts, MGF did ask me to see them but since I know nothing about clutch and other parts, I declined.

Now there can be 3 Scenarios :

1. We drove recklessly and burnt the clutch in 4,200 KMs ? Vehicle is primarily driven by me with occasions where my Driver drives it, since the First Clutch lasted 1,45,000 KMs I don't think that I need to clear my point any further.

2. Wrong or Spurious Parts were installed ? Maybe, but I am sceptical as vehicle is being serviced for 1,50,000 KMs and Innova for another 75,000 KMs ( Including Clutch which was done at 60 - 65K mark ) and is working flawlessly.

3. Wrongly Installed Parts ? I think this is the problem maybe the clutch was not installed properly which caused all this problem and the reason they were reluctant to open the clutch if I drive it for 10K then it is easier to pin it on me.

Now my question is that how can we be sure if it is either of the above ? Is there a way if we open the Clutch and I post pictures so we can understand ? as they would have closed the Clutch perfectly this time around.