Details of Tata Indica / Indigo ECU

Vin Diesel · 24th June 2005, 03:10

Hello,
In one of my earlier posts i disagreed with Tsk 1979 who had mentioned about a 32 bit processor in tata indigo diesel .i was under the impression that IDI engines dont need ECU .Tata has done a wonderful job by using a ecu for the fuel pump and a cost effecive way to taclkle the stringent emission norms.
I was wrong Tsk . found some details from indica users group. hope it will be useful .
Moderators pls post this in a appropriate forum

Type No---475 IDI Euro-3
Make------Lucas TVS
Primary Functions :---
1. Fuel pump injection timing control.
2. Glow plug pre & post heat control.
3. EGR system on-off control.

Secondary Functions :---
1. FICD (Fast Idle Control Device Control). This is
the device which
increases the rpm when the AC is switched on.
2. AC switch off at high Engine temperature and high
loading.
3. High altitude proportional control.
4. Fault detection & storage of trouble codes.

The ECU gets its inputs / information about Throttle
position, coolant
temperature, ambient temperature, engine rpm,
crankshaft angle & Injection
start from the following sensors on the engine :
1. Throttle Position Sensor or Fuel Lever Sensor :
This is a potentiometer connected to the fuel delivery lever which is
actuated when the accelerator
pedal is pressed. It sends a DC voltage to the ECU which is proportional to
the accelerator postition.
2. Temperature Sensor : This is a thermistor type of
sensor, monitoring thecoolant temp.
3. RPM sensor : Part of the alternator. Gives 3
voltage pulses for one revolution of the crankshaft.
4. Crankshaft Angle Sensor or Crankshaft Position
Sensor. This is moumted onthe flywheel housing, and provides piston TDC (Top
Dead Centre) information to the ECU, in the form of number of voltage pulses
per 90 degrees angle of rotation.
5. Needle Lift Sensor : This sensor is part of No. 4 cylinder fuel injector,
& sends a voltage signal to the ECU at the precise beginning of injection.

How it works :
Based on the inputs from these sensors, the ECU
controls the following units
through Relays, Solenoid switches & PWM control :
1. Glow Plug Heaters : These are for pre-heating the
cylinders. The ECUcontrols the glow plugs ON time based on ambient &
engine temperature.
2. Fuel Pump: Injection timing is controlleddepending on the position of
the accelerator pedal----timing is advancedautomatically at higher rpm. The
ECU controls a cam actuator inside the fuel pump,
based on a look up table stored in the ECU program ROM.
3. EGR : This is the Exhaust Gas Recirculation
system. Part of the exhaust
gases are mixed with the air intake to reduce temperatures inside the
cylinders to below 210 deg C., which sharply
reduces the formation of Nitrogen Oxides (Nox) in the exhaust, thereby
reducing harmful pollutants as reqd. by Euro / BS 2 & 3 norms.The EGR valve is
controlled by the ECU, & gets activated in the rpm band 1100 to 3000 rpm,
with small variations to compensate for engine temp & loading.
4. FICD : The fast idle control is used to increase
the idle rpm when the AC is switched on. The ECU activates the FICD through a
solenoid switch by monitoring the AC compressor clutch voltage.

The ECU also continuously monitors the engine
temperature, & switches offthe AC if upper limits are exceeded.
All the sensors are also monitored continuously, and
a fault or troublecode is stored in non-volatile memory in case of a
fault, & the Check Engine Light comes ON.

Mpower · 24th June 2005, 04:11

Hey VinDiesel

This is great info man. Looks like they really did a lot to certify it for Euro 3. This is like taking half a step towards a full DI system. They should have just gone for it.

tsk1979 · 24th June 2005, 12:11

The AC cutoff at high temp is there in old indicas also. MY 2002 June V2 had the AC problem where AC would switch off when it was very hot. It seems that the thermostat in radiator was reporting incorrect temparature. Though in those generation cars it was no ECU, just a simple switch.

Rehaan · 25th June 2005, 17:02

Great info VinD!

Didnt know about the EGR being handled by the ECU between 1100-3000rpm, i thought it was just a startup thing ....those evil environmentalists!

cya
R

Surya · 22nd January 2006, 05:39

That was pretty cool info and might be of use to anybody...
Thanks VinD.

Surya

angelfire · 22nd January 2006, 08:52

hey thats some great info man!!...well if its got a ECU..then it am sure it can tweaked for high perfmance....has anyone done it out there??

porsche_fan · 24th January 2006, 14:20

They use the same funda for the BS-3 Version of the 483DL (Ex-Safari;Sumo Victa GX Turbo), which is also an IDI engine.....

directinjection · 24th January 2006, 14:54

It seems that in order to achieve BSIII emission norms, even direct injection engines (ordinary, not common rail) require some level of electronisation of the fuel injection pump. The Ashok Leyland Managing Director recently told Auto Monitor (it's a sister publication of Overdrive) in an interview that Ashok Leyland had achieved BSIII norm in Leyland trucks by fitting them with electronic fuel injection pumps.

sivasankaram · 20th June 2008, 13:25

Hi,
It is lot of information I have been struggling to get. Thanks for this, I also want to know whether TATAs sell a workshop manual for Indica. Will appreciate if you can provide the info.
Sivasankaram

svsantosh · 20th June 2008, 14:18

siva, some thread you dug from from the earth- great search friend - sadly your question is NO, there are no such off the shelves manuals sold for any car in India sold in the last 10-20 years, simple reason, Monopoly of their service workshops...

sivasankaram · 20th June 2008, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by svsantosh

siva, some thread you dug from from the earth- great search friend - sadly your question is NO, there are no such off the shelves manuals sold for any car in India sold in the last 10-20 years, simple reason, Monopoly of their service workshops...

Santosh I guessed so and you confirmed it. Thanks

sivasankaram · 31st July 2008, 10:26

Hi Vin,
In my Indica Euro II the EGR is vacuum actuated and the actuator solenoid is energized by a micro switch which is actuated by fuel control lever at a fairly low opening. I have re-set it so as to come in to play only when the lever opens about 75-85 percent. It looks that there is improvement in power to pull the vehicle at low road speed in 2nd gear. Here I must add that this is possible only if the tacho shows 1000 or more rpm.

It looks you have good resource for Indica. I intend to understand the vehicle better. I want to know how to get more info on ECU, Engine and power train. Would appreciate your observations.

Sivasankaramksivasankaram@hotmail.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin Diesel

Hello,
In one of my earlier posts i disagreed with Tsk 1979 who had mentioned about a 32 bit processor in tata indigo diesel .i was under the impression that IDI engines dont need ECU .Tata has done a wonderful job by using a ecu for the fuel pump and a cost effecive way to taclkle the stringent emission norms.
I was wrong Tsk . found some details from indica users group. hope it will be useful .
Moderators pls post this in a appropriate forum

Type No---475 IDI Euro-3
Make------Lucas TVS
Primary Functions :---
1. Fuel pump injection timing control.
2. Glow plug pre & post heat control.
3. EGR system on-off control.

Secondary Functions :---
1. FICD (Fast Idle Control Device Control). This is
the device which
increases the rpm when the AC is switched on.
2. AC switch off at high Engine temperature and high
loading.
3. High altitude proportional control.
4. Fault detection & storage of trouble codes.

The ECU gets its inputs / information about Throttle
position, coolant
temperature, ambient temperature, engine rpm,
crankshaft angle & Injection
start from the following sensors on the engine :
1. Throttle Position Sensor or Fuel Lever Sensor :
This is a potentiometer connected to the fuel delivery lever which is
actuated when the accelerator
pedal is pressed. It sends a DC voltage to the ECU which is proportional to
the accelerator postition.
2. Temperature Sensor : This is a thermistor type of
sensor, monitoring thecoolant temp.
3. RPM sensor : Part of the alternator. Gives 3
voltage pulses for one revolution of the crankshaft.
4. Crankshaft Angle Sensor or Crankshaft Position
Sensor. This is moumted onthe flywheel housing, and provides piston TDC (Top
Dead Centre) information to the ECU, in the form of number of voltage pulses
per 90 degrees angle of rotation.
5. Needle Lift Sensor : This sensor is part of No. 4 cylinder fuel injector,
& sends a voltage signal to the ECU at the precise beginning of injection.

How it works :
Based on the inputs from these sensors, the ECU
controls the following units
through Relays, Solenoid switches & PWM control :
1. Glow Plug Heaters : These are for pre-heating the
cylinders. The ECUcontrols the glow plugs ON time based on ambient &
engine temperature.
2. Fuel Pump: Injection timing is controlleddepending on the position of
the accelerator pedal----timing is advancedautomatically at higher rpm. The
ECU controls a cam actuator inside the fuel pump,
based on a look up table stored in the ECU program ROM.
3. EGR : This is the Exhaust Gas Recirculation
system. Part of the exhaust
gases are mixed with the air intake to reduce temperatures inside the
cylinders to below 210 deg C., which sharply
reduces the formation of Nitrogen Oxides (Nox) in the exhaust, thereby
reducing harmful pollutants as reqd. by Euro / BS 2 & 3 norms.The EGR valve is
controlled by the ECU, & gets activated in the rpm band 1100 to 3000 rpm,
with small variations to compensate for engine temp & loading.
4. FICD : The fast idle control is used to increase
the idle rpm when the AC is switched on. The ECU activates the FICD through a
solenoid switch by monitoring the AC compressor clutch voltage.

The ECU also continuously monitors the engine
temperature, & switches offthe AC if upper limits are exceeded.
All the sensors are also monitored continuously, and
a fault or troublecode is stored in non-volatile memory in case of a
fault, & the Check Engine Light comes ON.

wanderernomad · 31st July 2008, 11:08

Does the same hold true for Indigo Dicor as well or it has different ecu parameters?

wanderernomad · 2nd August 2008, 23:46

Today at TASS they told me that the Indigo Dicor ecu cannot be remapped. Is it true? While they said that the petrol one can be done.

amitabh_kaushal · 8th January 2009, 18:46

Since last month I am facing problem of check engine light. Initially it was coming intermittently but later (after two week) it started to continue glow. Also vehicle started giving starting trouble in morning. Initial acceleration was jerky and sometime car get stopped suddenly. Also it loses acceleration while driving and then I have to shift into lower gear. I went to B.u.bhandari in pune and gave my car for service. They told me its bcos of cam sensor and replaced it. Also they suggested me to took Bardhal engine treatment and somehow I got convinced to do it as my vehicle is around 36K+ Km. After receiving my car it was fine and next day I went to long trip. After 80-90 km run “check engine” light came and car was running fine till that time. But next day it started giving me same old pain. During return I halt at HP pump and filled 10l petrol as I always use IOC extra premium and it was not available. Car problem further increased and it was not going above 80+ for few minutes and I can feel the harshness. After returning pune again I went workshop and they told me that O2 sensor and ECU is probably faulty and replacing them will cost 20K+. I felt they are taking me for granted and not doing justice with job. After talking to works manager and advisor they told me same story and showed me some EMS software which produce all the result. When I asked for codes of ECU which tells the problematic area they said ECU is reset and it cant be given right now. When check engine light appears again they can show me.

Now, car is still giving me starting trouble, its very harsh and it jerks when I try to accelerate it in the morning after cranking it. After a while car goes fine but I can feel it is not so smooth in drive. Also I can hear lots squeaks in-around the car (probably seats or suspension). When I put key and reach to ignition some weired sound comes. The only benefit I have fuel efficiency which is around 12-13 km in city with AC.

Can anyone help me to understand these –

What are the problems related with O2 sensor ?
What are the problems related with ECU?
How much ECU and O2 replacement will cost me outside TASC ?
Can I use Indica vista/Xeta ECU in indigo petrol ?

:- Does anyone in Pune have taken petrol car around 2006 with extended warranty ?

24th June 2005, 03:10	#1
Vin Diesel Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: KERALA Posts: 15 Thanked: Once	Details of Tata Indica / Indigo ECU Hello, In one of my earlier posts i disagreed with Tsk 1979 who had mentioned about a 32 bit processor in tata indigo diesel .i was under the impression that IDI engines dont need ECU .Tata has done a wonderful job by using a ecu for the fuel pump and a cost effecive way to taclkle the stringent emission norms. I was wrong Tsk . found some details from indica users group. hope it will be useful . Moderators pls post this in a appropriate forum Type No---475 IDI Euro-3 Make------Lucas TVS Primary Functions :--- 1. Fuel pump injection timing control. 2. Glow plug pre & post heat control. 3. EGR system on-off control. Secondary Functions :--- 1. FICD (Fast Idle Control Device Control). This is the device which increases the rpm when the AC is switched on. 2. AC switch off at high Engine temperature and high loading. 3. High altitude proportional control. 4. Fault detection & storage of trouble codes. The ECU gets its inputs / information about Throttle position, coolant temperature, ambient temperature, engine rpm, crankshaft angle & Injection start from the following sensors on the engine : 1. Throttle Position Sensor or Fuel Lever Sensor : This is a potentiometer connected to the fuel delivery lever which is actuated when the accelerator pedal is pressed. It sends a DC voltage to the ECU which is proportional to the accelerator postition. 2. Temperature Sensor : This is a thermistor type of sensor, monitoring thecoolant temp. 3. RPM sensor : Part of the alternator. Gives 3 voltage pulses for one revolution of the crankshaft. 4. Crankshaft Angle Sensor or Crankshaft Position Sensor. This is moumted onthe flywheel housing, and provides piston TDC (Top Dead Centre) information to the ECU, in the form of number of voltage pulses per 90 degrees angle of rotation. 5. Needle Lift Sensor : This sensor is part of No. 4 cylinder fuel injector, & sends a voltage signal to the ECU at the precise beginning of injection. How it works : Based on the inputs from these sensors, the ECU controls the following units through Relays, Solenoid switches & PWM control : 1. Glow Plug Heaters : These are for pre-heating the cylinders. The ECUcontrols the glow plugs ON time based on ambient & engine temperature. 2. Fuel Pump: Injection timing is controlleddepending on the position of the accelerator pedal----timing is advancedautomatically at higher rpm. The ECU controls a cam actuator inside the fuel pump, based on a look up table stored in the ECU program ROM. 3. EGR : This is the Exhaust Gas Recirculation system. Part of the exhaust gases are mixed with the air intake to reduce temperatures inside the cylinders to below 210 deg C., which sharply reduces the formation of Nitrogen Oxides (Nox) in the exhaust, thereby reducing harmful pollutants as reqd. by Euro / BS 2 & 3 norms.The EGR valve is controlled by the ECU, & gets activated in the rpm band 1100 to 3000 rpm, with small variations to compensate for engine temp & loading. 4. FICD : The fast idle control is used to increase the idle rpm when the AC is switched on. The ECU activates the FICD through a solenoid switch by monitoring the AC compressor clutch voltage. The ECU also continuously monitors the engine temperature, & switches offthe AC if upper limits are exceeded. All the sensors are also monitored continuously, and a fault or troublecode is stored in non-volatile memory in case of a fault, & the Check Engine Light comes ON.
	(1) Thanks

24th June 2005, 04:11	#2
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,399 Thanked: 1,735 Times View My Garage	Hey VinDiesel This is great info man. Looks like they really did a lot to certify it for Euro 3. This is like taking half a step towards a full DI system. They should have just gone for it.
	() Thanks

24th June 2005, 12:11	#3
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,695 Thanked: 23,484 Times View My Garage	The AC cutoff at high temp is there in old indicas also. MY 2002 June V2 had the AC problem where AC would switch off when it was very hot. It seems that the thermostat in radiator was reporting incorrect temparature. Though in those generation cars it was no ECU, just a simple switch.
	(1) Thanks

25th June 2005, 17:02	#4
Rehaan Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 24,198 Thanked: 36,075 Times	Great info VinD! Didnt know about the EGR being handled by the ECU between 1100-3000rpm, i thought it was just a startup thing ....those evil environmentalists! cya R Last edited by Rehaan : 25th June 2005 at 17:09.
	() Thanks

22nd January 2006, 05:39	#5
Surya BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chennai. Now in BlueBell, PA, USA Posts: 49 Thanked: 0 Times	That was pretty cool info and might be of use to anybody... Thanks VinD. Surya
	() Thanks

22nd January 2006, 08:52	#6
angelfire BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Mangalore/Chicago Posts: 251 Thanked: Once View My Garage	hey thats some great info man!!...well if its got a ECU..then it am sure it can tweaked for high perfmance....has anyone done it out there??
	() Thanks

24th January 2006, 14:20	#7
porsche_fan BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Epinal,France Posts: 83 Thanked: 9 Times	They use the same funda for the BS-3 Version of the 483DL (Ex-Safari;Sumo Victa GX Turbo), which is also an IDI engine.....
	() Thanks

24th January 2006, 14:54	#8
directinjection Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Faridabad/Delhi Posts: 1,717 Thanked: 830 Times	It seems that in order to achieve BSIII emission norms, even direct injection engines (ordinary, not common rail) require some level of electronisation of the fuel injection pump. The Ashok Leyland Managing Director recently told Auto Monitor (it's a sister publication of Overdrive) in an interview that Ashok Leyland had achieved BSIII norm in Leyland trucks by fitting them with electronic fuel injection pumps.
	() Thanks

20th June 2008, 13:25	#9
sivasankaram Newbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 13 Thanked: Once	Hi, It is lot of information I have been struggling to get. Thanks for this, I also want to know whether TATAs sell a workshop manual for Indica. Will appreciate if you can provide the info. Sivasankaram
	() Thanks

20th June 2008, 14:18	#10
svsantosh Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Dubai Posts: 4,284 Thanked: 8,049 Times View My Garage	siva, some thread you dug from from the earth- great search friend - sadly your question is NO, there are no such off the shelves manuals sold for any car in India sold in the last 10-20 years, simple reason, Monopoly of their service workshops...
	() Thanks

31st July 2008, 11:08	#13
wanderernomad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 2,552 Thanked: 1,296 Times View My Garage	Does the same hold true for Indigo Dicor as well or it has different ecu parameters?
	() Thanks

2nd August 2008, 23:46	#14
wanderernomad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 2,552 Thanked: 1,296 Times View My Garage	Today at TASS they told me that the Indigo Dicor ecu cannot be remapped. Is it true? While they said that the petrol one can be done.
	() Thanks

8th January 2009, 18:46	#15
amitabh_kaushal BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: pune Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	ECU, O2 sensor issue on indigo pterol(2006), HELP !! Since last month I am facing problem of check engine light. Initially it was coming intermittently but later (after two week) it started to continue glow. Also vehicle started giving starting trouble in morning. Initial acceleration was jerky and sometime car get stopped suddenly. Also it loses acceleration while driving and then I have to shift into lower gear. I went to B.u.bhandari in pune and gave my car for service. They told me its bcos of cam sensor and replaced it. Also they suggested me to took Bardhal engine treatment and somehow I got convinced to do it as my vehicle is around 36K+ Km. After receiving my car it was fine and next day I went to long trip. After 80-90 km run “check engine” light came and car was running fine till that time. But next day it started giving me same old pain. During return I halt at HP pump and filled 10l petrol as I always use IOC extra premium and it was not available. Car problem further increased and it was not going above 80+ for few minutes and I can feel the harshness. After returning pune again I went workshop and they told me that O2 sensor and ECU is probably faulty and replacing them will cost 20K+. I felt they are taking me for granted and not doing justice with job. After talking to works manager and advisor they told me same story and showed me some EMS software which produce all the result. When I asked for codes of ECU which tells the problematic area they said ECU is reset and it cant be given right now. When check engine light appears again they can show me. Now, car is still giving me starting trouble, its very harsh and it jerks when I try to accelerate it in the morning after cranking it. After a while car goes fine but I can feel it is not so smooth in drive. Also I can hear lots squeaks in-around the car (probably seats or suspension). When I put key and reach to ignition some weired sound comes. The only benefit I have fuel efficiency which is around 12-13 km in city with AC. Can anyone help me to understand these – What are the problems related with O2 sensor ? What are the problems related with ECU? How much ECU and O2 replacement will cost me outside TASC ? Can I use Indica vista/Xeta ECU in indigo petrol ? :- Does anyone in Pune have taken petrol car around 2006 with extended warranty ? Last edited by amitabh_kaushal : 8th January 2009 at 18:57.
	() Thanks