Correct Gas for AC- Is R12 banned?

manolin · 29th May 2009, 11:17

a friend was learning to drive on my car and he slightly banged it against another car. My car's AC fan and condenser are damaged. When i went to Vitesse Worli to drop off the car, they said that the gas used in my car is R12 and its been banned in India from 2004, and thus they will not be able to top up the gas. They said if i want i can get a conversion kit fitted with them, but that costs 10k.

Though i must admit the service advisor was quite helpful and told me that the gas is available elsewhere and i can get it filled up there.

What is the difference between these gases - R12 and R132 and is it necessary to change? They also told me that people fill in r132 without the conversion kit and it works fine-though they wont do it, as it is not advised by the company. In Team Bhp I have read that it is may lead to compressor damage.

What to do. It is end 2002 Maruti Zen. I bought it from true value last year and plan to keep it for 2 more years at least.

PS. I like vitesse. Seems like they care for customers and the cars. Sai Service is too mechanical - its like an assembly. So i go to vitesse even though i bought it from sai service.

andre1774 · 29th May 2009, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by manolin

a friend was learning to drive on my car and he slightly banged it against another car. My car's AC fan and condenser are damaged. When i went to Vitesse Worli to drop off the car, they said that the gas used in my car is R12 and its been banned in India from 2004, and thus they will not be able to top up the gas. They said if i want i can get a conversion kit fitted with them, but that costs 10k.

Though i must admit the service advisor was quite helpful and told me that the gas is available elsewhere and i can get it filled up there.

What is the difference between these gases - R12 and R132 and is it necessary to change? They also told me that people fill in r132 without the conversion kit and it works fine-though they wont do it, as it is not advised by the company. In Team Bhp I have read that it is may lead to compressor damage.

What to do. It is end 2002 Maruti Zen. I bought it from true value last year and plan to keep it for 2 more years at least.

PS. I like vitesse. Seems like they care for customers and the cars. Sai Service is too mechanical - its like an assembly. So i go to vitesse even though i bought it from sai service.

Hi, i too recently serviced the ac compressor of my zen 97, and the maruthi service center refused to do the comp work because they have to use r12, but directed me to another person working outside who gets the gas and fills it. it is illegal because it contains CFC (chloro fluro carbon) which is harmful to the ozone layer above us. there is another alternative to that gas. i heard that it is R40 which can be used if I am right with it.
yes you can change your compressor+drier+valves and it might cost around 8K, here in chennai. or else you can fill R12 illegally which costs about 950/kg. but see that your compressor is fine before doing it.
thanks.

aerohit · 29th May 2009, 16:34

Hi - if something is illegal, there is no point going somewhere else and changing the law for personal pleasure.

Set a good example. Just get what is legal and live happily.

sgiitk · 29th May 2009, 17:18

R12 is banned in new systems. As far as I know it can still be used for repairs and in old syste,s. R134 (or is it R122) is now used. In fact the characteristics of R12 and R134 are very similar. Only the new gas is far more susceptible to moisture and corrosive. However, R12 compressors can be modified at reasonable cost to take the new refrigerants.

frankmehta · 29th May 2009, 18:14

i went with my esteem to royal car ac and he said, sell off the car. the r34 is known to damage the existing components, and said its a matter of time that a new ac has to be installed if we keep using r34 in place of the older one, since its corrosive and also chokes up pipes.
beats me. why should we pay for a conversion kit if the gas is disconned? maruti should offer a free conversion!

nitrous · 29th May 2009, 18:18

I have R12 in my esteem and sumo.
I'll make up for it by planting trees

sgiitk · 29th May 2009, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankmehta

i went with my esteem to royal car ac and he said, sell off the car. the r34 is known to damage the existing components, and said its a matter of time that a new ac has to be installed if we keep using r34 in place of the older one, since its corrosive and also chokes up pipes.

As far as I know except for the compressor (and its oil) the rest of the system only needs to be flushed for a conversion.

R2D2 · 29th May 2009, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrous

I have R12 in my esteem and sumo.
I'll make up for it by planting trees

Nice. But trees wont protect you from UV rays like the ozone layer does.

Rgds,

manolin · 29th May 2009, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankmehta

beats me. why should we pay for a conversion kit if the gas is disconned? maruti should offer a free conversion!

Exactly. Even the service advisor told me that its not worth it to change. said old car. no point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgiitk

In fact the characteristics of R12 and R134 are very similar. Only the new gas is far more susceptible to moisture and corrosive. However, R12 compressors can be modified at reasonable cost to take the new refrigerants.

Vitesse quoted 10k. Thats 7% of the value of the car right now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohit

Hi - if something is illegal, there is no point going somewhere else and changing the law for personal pleasure.

Set a good example. Just get what is legal and live happily.

I would like to. If only the laws were originally made with foresight, and the illegality was done in phases. The problems of CFC gases were known for a long time. If they had to stop it, they should ban new machines from using it, after certain years ban it altogether; not all at one go. Very similar wrong was done with overnight ruling relating to cng buses in Delhi.

scorpian · 29th May 2009, 21:46

Hi Guys,
R-12 no doubt is banned however is yet sold by many companies,including godrej which supplies it in regular 73kg cylinders,my uncle has a workshop in pune and has been stocking r-12 for past many donkeys years,i have myself learnt about refrigeration and worked in his establishment for 4years which also included car a/c

As far as your problem is concerned you can buy r-12 fom any refriegeration spares worskshop for approx 520/kg,let me tell you that u wont need one k.g for straters in your car a half k.g would suffice,however some spares sellers cringe on selling half k.g as it leads to wastage in the charging line while filling gas from the main container to the smaller cylinder.

so the gas is available and u can get it fixed at some local a.c mechanic.if however u want to convert to R-134,the exisitng oil in the compressor hs to be flushed and a new 134 based suitable oil will have to filled in to the compressor,besides this a complete flushing of the evaporator,condensor etc has to be done using nitrogen.

After this ur ready to fill in 134,however if u ask me i would say just stick to R-12 instaed of going through the entire process.

We have been seeing this process almost everywhere and i dont knw why u have been suggested to convert to 134,i guess its just the milking money tht they r interested in..

HKS · 29th May 2009, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by manolin

What is the difference between these gases - R12 and R132 and is it necessary to change? They also told me that people fill in r132 without the conversion kit and it works fine-though they wont do it, as it is not advised by the company. In Team Bhp I have read that it is may lead to compressor damage.

Its R12 and R134a. R12 or Freon-12 was the gas originally used in A/Cs. It cools very quickly, but it releases CFC, which isn't good sign for our planet earth. Hence, R134a was introduced. This gas is also very effective in terms of cooling and is CFC free. Hence gases like R12, R22 (Still used in room A/Cs) and R502 (Was earlier used in refrigeration units/freezers) has reduced, though still R22 is used in room A/Cs. And are replaced by all the gases with the code R___a where a stands for CFC free.

Hope I have been able to tell the difference.

amit_mechengg · 29th May 2009, 23:04

older esteems and zens use R12 gas. MASS wont fill them as it is banned. however you can easily get it filled at AC servicing people. i recently got AC serviced on my alto and i filled R134 gas. however there were tanks of R12 gas in the store.

HKS · 30th May 2009, 07:34

Yes, R12 is still available everywhere. Manolin you being from Mumbai, maybe I cna help you if you can't find it.

SLK · 30th May 2009, 08:19

I think my wagonR, though year 2000 model, still came with R134a gas.

Save the ozone! Change to 134a, and don't goto MASS for conversion, wont cost much then.

Srini76 · 30th May 2009, 17:49

I have had the same issue with my M800. I was informed by a M.A.S.S in Chennai that my compressor was done with and that I had to make a few changes including the Gas, new compressor etc. It finally turned out to be that the Belt for the compressor was partially damaged and hence the screeching noise. Is it just me or do more people notice that the M.A.S.S which were usually good are gradually declining ? My Car has to date not gone to any Mechanic but the same M.A.S.S all along and perhaps time to make a few amends !

29th May 2009, 11:17	#1
manolin BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Delhi/Cuttack Posts: 392 Thanked: 206 Times	Correct Gas for AC- Is R12 banned? a friend was learning to drive on my car and he slightly banged it against another car. My car's AC fan and condenser are damaged. When i went to Vitesse Worli to drop off the car, they said that the gas used in my car is R12 and its been banned in India from 2004, and thus they will not be able to top up the gas. They said if i want i can get a conversion kit fitted with them, but that costs 10k. Though i must admit the service advisor was quite helpful and told me that the gas is available elsewhere and i can get it filled up there. What is the difference between these gases - R12 and R132 and is it necessary to change? They also told me that people fill in r132 without the conversion kit and it works fine-though they wont do it, as it is not advised by the company. In Team Bhp I have read that it is may lead to compressor damage. What to do. It is end 2002 Maruti Zen. I bought it from true value last year and plan to keep it for 2 more years at least. PS. I like vitesse. Seems like they care for customers and the cars. Sai Service is too mechanical - its like an assembly. So i go to vitesse even though i bought it from sai service.
	(1) Thanks

29th May 2009, 16:34	#3
aerohit BANNED Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: India Posts: 985 Thanked: 1,011 Times	Hi - if something is illegal, there is no point going somewhere else and changing the law for personal pleasure. Set a good example. Just get what is legal and live happily.
	() Thanks

29th May 2009, 17:18	#4
sgiitk Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,971 Thanked: 4,808 Times	R12 is banned in new systems. As far as I know it can still be used for repairs and in old syste,s. R134 (or is it R122) is now used. In fact the characteristics of R12 and R134 are very similar. Only the new gas is far more susceptible to moisture and corrosive. However, R12 compressors can be modified at reasonable cost to take the new refrigerants.
	(1) Thanks

29th May 2009, 18:14	#5
frankmehta Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,029 Thanked: 3,667 Times View My Garage	i went with my esteem to royal car ac and he said, sell off the car. the r34 is known to damage the existing components, and said its a matter of time that a new ac has to be installed if we keep using r34 in place of the older one, since its corrosive and also chokes up pipes. beats me. why should we pay for a conversion kit if the gas is disconned? maruti should offer a free conversion!
	(1) Thanks

29th May 2009, 18:18	#6
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 333 Times View My Garage	I have R12 in my esteem and sumo. I'll make up for it by planting trees
	() Thanks

29th May 2009, 21:46	#10
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 856 Thanked: 1,297 Times View My Garage	Solution Hi Guys, R-12 no doubt is banned however is yet sold by many companies,including godrej which supplies it in regular 73kg cylinders,my uncle has a workshop in pune and has been stocking r-12 for past many donkeys years,i have myself learnt about refrigeration and worked in his establishment for 4years which also included car a/c As far as your problem is concerned you can buy r-12 fom any refriegeration spares worskshop for approx 520/kg,let me tell you that u wont need one k.g for straters in your car a half k.g would suffice,however some spares sellers cringe on selling half k.g as it leads to wastage in the charging line while filling gas from the main container to the smaller cylinder. so the gas is available and u can get it fixed at some local a.c mechanic.if however u want to convert to R-134,the exisitng oil in the compressor hs to be flushed and a new 134 based suitable oil will have to filled in to the compressor,besides this a complete flushing of the evaporator,condensor etc has to be done using nitrogen. After this ur ready to fill in 134,however if u ask me i would say just stick to R-12 instaed of going through the entire process. We have been seeing this process almost everywhere and i dont knw why u have been suggested to convert to 134,i guess its just the milking money tht they r interested in..
	(1) Thanks

29th May 2009, 23:04	#12
amit_mechengg Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 2,488 Thanked: 2,263 Times View My Garage	older esteems and zens use R12 gas. MASS wont fill them as it is banned. however you can easily get it filled at AC servicing people. i recently got AC serviced on my alto and i filled R134 gas. however there were tanks of R12 gas in the store.
	() Thanks

30th May 2009, 07:34	#13
HKS BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 104 Thanked: 6 Times	Yes, R12 is still available everywhere. Manolin you being from Mumbai, maybe I cna help you if you can't find it.
	() Thanks

30th May 2009, 08:19	#14
SLK Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 1,798 Thanked: 1,417 Times	I think my wagonR, though year 2000 model, still came with R134a gas. Save the ozone! Change to 134a, and don't goto MASS for conversion, wont cost much then.
	() Thanks

30th May 2009, 17:49	#15
Srini76 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 157 Thanked: 169 Times View My Garage	I have had the same issue with my M800. I was informed by a M.A.S.S in Chennai that my compressor was done with and that I had to make a few changes including the Gas, new compressor etc. It finally turned out to be that the Belt for the compressor was partially damaged and hence the screeching noise. Is it just me or do more people notice that the M.A.S.S which were usually good are gradually declining ? My Car has to date not gone to any Mechanic but the same M.A.S.S all along and perhaps time to make a few amends !
	() Thanks