Correct Gas for AC- Is R12 banned?

devrajman · 21st September 2009, 20:16

Did anyone changed their AC gas to the newer one?

Any approx costs? and Procedure follow/Things done to convert?

I have '99 Zen & Cooling is little low. :-(

dkamath · 21st September 2009, 20:26

Hi, the conversion can set you back by about Rs.30,000/- or so. Most of the plumbing lines need to be changed, along with the condensor and compressor. For reliability sake, think it's good to opt for the conversion to be done at an authorised Maruti service centre, in case you plan to keep your car for a long time.

archat68 · 21st September 2009, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by devrajman

Did anyone changed their AC gas to the newer one?

Any approx costs? and Procedure follow/Things done to convert?

I have '99 Zen & Cooling is little low. :-(

I converted my '99 Zen to use new R134a. It cost me 7K in Kolkata. The cooling is fantastic and the workshop gave me 1 year warranty on the conversion. However I forgot what components were changed. I'm told in smaller workshops the conversion costs about 4K.

Hashim · 21st September 2009, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by archat68

I converted my '99 Zen to use new R134a. It cost me 7K in Kolkata. The cooling is fantastic and the workshop gave me 1 year warranty on the conversion. However I forgot what components were changed. I'm told in smaller workshops the conversion costs about 4K.

Compressor of old zen cost about 12000+ with bill so I think they only changed drier, compressor oil and obviously the gas.

archat68 · 21st September 2009, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hashim

Compressor of old zen cost about 12000+ with bill so I think they only changed drier, compressor oil and obviously the gas.

No, the compressor was not changed - rather it was modified to withstand the higher pressure with which the R134a refrigerant works.

sgiitk · 22nd September 2009, 10:06

I think the main issue with R134 is that is is far more corrosive, and very sensitive to moisture. The characteristics are similar (nor identical) to R12.

So the compressor may require to be changed or upgraded - new oil for sure, may be an overhaul. The rest of the system should just require a thorough flush. It is possible to economically change a system from R12 to R134. However, if you do not intend to keep the car for a long time then just get the job done at a good independent wh does R12.

sudharma · 22nd September 2009, 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian

Hi Guys,
R-12 no doubt is banned however is yet sold by many companies........
.

Please find answers regarding Automoblie A/C from US EPA.

[The continued use of CFC-12 is not banned. Even though production of CFC-12 ended on [COLOR=#0000ff]December 31, 1995, use of CFC-12 is still permitted, so you can continue to use the CFC-12 that is in your vehicle now, and your service technician can continue to put it in your vehicle, as long as supplies are available. CFC-12 used today is constantly being recovered and recycled, and some CFC-12 produced in 1994 and 1995 has been placed into inventory, so that there is still refrigerant available for sale presently, although the price will likely continue to increase.

You will need to decide whether to convert your vehicle's system to use an alternative refrigerant only if your system becomes inoperative and requires a new refrigerant charge, and CFC-12 is no longer available. Although there is no way to predict with certainty when supplies of CFC-12 will be exhausted, the extensive recycling and banking of CFC-12 occurring now should make it available for several years. Depending on the age of your vehicle, it may well be the case that CFC-12 will be around for the remainder of its life.
It may also make sense for you to have your system converted if you are having major service performed on your a/c system (for example, if you have been in a front-end collision or have had compressor failure). In that event, the additional cost of doing the conversion over and above the cost of the repair work may be minimal, because many steps in converting are also necessary in performing a major repair.

Automakers are producing new vehicles with HFC-134a, which does not deplete the ozone layer. EPA evaluates all substitutes for CFC-12 under its [COLOR=#0000ff]Significant New Alternatives Policy (SNAP) program[/COLOR] in order to determine if they pose any risk to human health or to the environment. Currently, among the [COLOR=#0000ff]alternatives listed as acceptable subject to use conditions[/COLOR], HFC-134a is the only one which also has been fully tested and specified by automakers in their guidelines.]

archat68 · 22nd September 2009, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I think the main issue with R134 is that is is far more corrosive, and very sensitive to moisture. The characteristics are similar (nor identical) to R12.

Also the R134a operates at much higher pressure than the R12. That is why if you fill up R134 in a compressor that uses R12, although it will work for some time with lesser cooling - it will eventually leak by damaging the gaskets in the compressor (as told by several A.C mechanic in Kolkata).

devrajman · 22nd September 2009, 13:34

Topping up gas with R12 isnt a very bad idea. How much does these top-ups lasts when done with complete service of AC system.

Are these top-ups are needed once in 2 yrs? Im new to these systems.

sgiitk · 22nd September 2009, 14:29

In my experience it used to be after one year and then once every two years. I must add that things have improved a lot since then and my Accent has needed to be topped up only once and the Santro never. Is it better Hyundai quality, technological advance, or the absence of a sight glass in Hyundai cars, I cannot say!

sid1509 · 14th March 2011, 14:14

Hi all,

Need urgent help. My wife resumed office last saturday and we realised that her '01 Zen AC is not cooling efficiently. I had a local workshop check on leakage but there is none. Apparently with time, the gas level seems to have dipped and requires a top up. On checking with MASS, am told R-12 has been discontinued and I will have to go for a conversion to R-134. I have got two variable quotes INR 7K at Competent Gurgaon and INR 20K (approx) at Vipul motors. The latter will be changing the compressor also.

I have read the thread and I gather that MASS will only do the conversion. We plan to change the car in 6 months as this one's without power steering; but I need the AC to work in hot Delhi summers. Any team-BHP'ian has got any workshop/contact who can give the car R-12 top-up, it will be helpful. Will save me some green.

I stay in faridabad and can drive to parts of NCR to get this done.

Thanks, Sid

SS-Traveller · 15th March 2011, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by sid1509

...I will have to go for a conversion to R-134.

Any team-BHP'ian has got any workshop/contact who can give the car R-12 top-up, it will be helpful. Will save me some green.

I stay in faridabad and can drive to parts of NCR to get this done.

Try this place: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/delhi-...new-delhi.html.

neoisme · 31st March 2011, 11:10

Got couple of questions regarding AC in Maruti Esteem 97 model

1) Roughly how many months/year the AC gas lasts after a fresh top up ? Usage is medium.
2)Any idea how much would it cost to get R12 AC gas top up done for Esteem ? The shop i went to told INR 1600.

Thanx,
Avinash

Hashim · 31st March 2011, 12:56

1) Gas will last for years and years if there is no leakage but just like tyre loose air with time, you need to get gas topped up when cooling is low. You may need to top up after 3 or 4 years in old cars.

2) Rs.650/-

Kamal · 13th May 2011, 23:03

I've went thru this thread with interest since I was facing a prob similar to many wrt leaked A/C gas R12 in my 1997 Esteem.
Many of the AC guys I talked to advised switching over to R134A since R12 was no longer available.
Of course, switching to R134A meant also changing the compressor with synthetic lube,the dryer, condensor,pipes i.e everything apart from the evaporator, since to old parts just would'nt work out with 134A.
Cost estimates-ranging from 17k to 20k.
Since I was not prepared to spend so much, I did some research, incl in Team BHP & came to know that Dupont had come up with a drop-in replacement gas for R12 called Isceon MO49 Plus & it was available here.
Plz see the info @ the foll link-http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/en_GB/products/isceon49.html
Some useful info is also given under the heading Additional Info at the bottom of the page thru a link for a guide for using MO49Plus for automotive applications.
At least 2 car AC guys in south Delhi,Satnam in Zamroodpur(opp LSR) & Aman in Okhla Ph3 stock & fill this gas.
Of course, initially both stringly recommended changing the entire kit for using R134A; only when I said that I was not going to spend all that cash did they come out with this option! I guess all these AC guys are having a ball fitting new kits & making tons of money.
The good news is that this is a drop in replcement for R12 & hence nothing needs to changed if it is ina good working condition, not even the mineral oil in the compressor & MO49+ is going to be available in the future since it has no environmental issues re ozone layer damage etc.
Today I got MO49Plus filled in my Esteem from Aman @ 1250 for the gas(2 cans of 340gms each) & 250 for the nitrogen flush leak check etc.
Satnam had quoted 1800 for the job.
In case anyone is interested-Aman:9312804492, & Satnam:9811148734.

21st September 2009, 20:16	#16
devrajman BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 505 Thanked: 119 Times View My Garage	Did anyone changed their AC gas to the newer one? Any approx costs? and Procedure follow/Things done to convert? I have '99 Zen & Cooling is little low. :-(
	() Thanks

21st September 2009, 20:26	#17
dkamath BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: BLR / MLR Posts: 579 Thanked: 162 Times	Hi, the conversion can set you back by about Rs.30,000/- or so. Most of the plumbing lines need to be changed, along with the condensor and compressor. For reliability sake, think it's good to opt for the conversion to be done at an authorised Maruti service centre, in case you plan to keep your car for a long time.
	() Thanks

22nd September 2009, 10:06	#21
sgiitk Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,971 Thanked: 4,808 Times	I think the main issue with R134 is that is is far more corrosive, and very sensitive to moisture. The characteristics are similar (nor identical) to R12. So the compressor may require to be changed or upgraded - new oil for sure, may be an overhaul. The rest of the system should just require a thorough flush. It is possible to economically change a system from R12 to R134. However, if you do not intend to keep the car for a long time then just get the job done at a good independent wh does R12.
	() Thanks

22nd September 2009, 13:34	#24
devrajman BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 505 Thanked: 119 Times View My Garage	Topping up gas with R12 isnt a very bad idea. How much does these top-ups lasts when done with complete service of AC system. Are these top-ups are needed once in 2 yrs? Im new to these systems.
	() Thanks

22nd September 2009, 14:29	#25
sgiitk Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,971 Thanked: 4,808 Times	In my experience it used to be after one year and then once every two years. I must add that things have improved a lot since then and my Accent has needed to be topped up only once and the Santro never. Is it better Hyundai quality, technological advance, or the absence of a sight glass in Hyundai cars, I cannot say!
	() Thanks

14th March 2011, 14:14	#26
sid1509 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Faridabad Posts: 97 Thanked: 72 Times	Re: Correct Gas for AC- Is R12 banned Hi all, Need urgent help. My wife resumed office last saturday and we realised that her '01 Zen AC is not cooling efficiently. I had a local workshop check on leakage but there is none. Apparently with time, the gas level seems to have dipped and requires a top up. On checking with MASS, am told R-12 has been discontinued and I will have to go for a conversion to R-134. I have got two variable quotes INR 7K at Competent Gurgaon and INR 20K (approx) at Vipul motors. The latter will be changing the compressor also. I have read the thread and I gather that MASS will only do the conversion. We plan to change the car in 6 months as this one's without power steering; but I need the AC to work in hot Delhi summers. Any team-BHP'ian has got any workshop/contact who can give the car R-12 top-up, it will be helpful. Will save me some green. I stay in faridabad and can drive to parts of NCR to get this done. Thanks, Sid Last edited by sid1509 : 14th March 2011 at 14:19.
	() Thanks

31st March 2011, 11:10	#28
neoisme Newbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8 Thanked: 0 Times	Re: Correct Gas for AC- Is R12 banned Got couple of questions regarding AC in Maruti Esteem 97 model 1) Roughly how many months/year the AC gas lasts after a fresh top up ? Usage is medium. 2)Any idea how much would it cost to get R12 AC gas top up done for Esteem ? The shop i went to told INR 1600. Thanx, Avinash
	() Thanks

31st March 2011, 12:56	#29
Hashim BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Aligarh Posts: 449 Thanked: 49 Times View My Garage	Re: Correct Gas for AC- Is R12 banned 1) Gas will last for years and years if there is no leakage but just like tyre loose air with time, you need to get gas topped up when cooling is low. You may need to top up after 3 or 4 years in old cars. 2) Rs.650/-
	() Thanks

13th May 2011, 23:03	#30
Kamal BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: N.Delhi Posts: 127 Thanked: 108 Times	Re: Correct Gas for AC- Is R12 banned I've went thru this thread with interest since I was facing a prob similar to many wrt leaked A/C gas R12 in my 1997 Esteem. Many of the AC guys I talked to advised switching over to R134A since R12 was no longer available. Of course, switching to R134A meant also changing the compressor with synthetic lube,the dryer, condensor,pipes i.e everything apart from the evaporator, since to old parts just would'nt work out with 134A. Cost estimates-ranging from 17k to 20k. Since I was not prepared to spend so much, I did some research, incl in Team BHP & came to know that Dupont had come up with a drop-in replacement gas for R12 called Isceon MO49 Plus & it was available here. Plz see the info @ the foll link-http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/en_GB/products/isceon49.html Some useful info is also given under the heading Additional Info at the bottom of the page thru a link for a guide for using MO49Plus for automotive applications. At least 2 car AC guys in south Delhi,Satnam in Zamroodpur(opp LSR) & Aman in Okhla Ph3 stock & fill this gas. Of course, initially both stringly recommended changing the entire kit for using R134A; only when I said that I was not going to spend all that cash did they come out with this option! I guess all these AC guys are having a ball fitting new kits & making tons of money. The good news is that this is a drop in replcement for R12 & hence nothing needs to changed if it is ina good working condition, not even the mineral oil in the compressor & MO49+ is going to be available in the future since it has no environmental issues re ozone layer damage etc. Today I got MO49Plus filled in my Esteem from Aman @ 1250 for the gas(2 cans of 340gms each) & 250 for the nitrogen flush leak check etc. Satnam had quoted 1800 for the job. In case anyone is interested-Aman:9312804492, & Satnam:9811148734.
	(2) Thanks