[Neilguy]

Originally Posted by Xehaust

putting it into N (on a level road) with the handbrake engaged/P (on a non-level road) wherein the car will not move forward.

What Samurai mentioned is correct. I too have driven ATs for the past 8 years and AFAIK, braking for a long time while in D does no damage to any part of your vehicle.

Instead of putting your vehicle in N and engaging the hand brake, it'll be more prudent to just put the vehicle in P, nothing extra! Move back to D when you want to move.

But the whole point of an AT is "NOT" to use the gear shift frequently, and this just negates that aspect. After all, to each his own.

[dot]

Originally Posted by Samurai

But, please do not claim that waiting in D is incorrect. I have never heard it mentioned when I drove in US for a decade, where 99% of the cars are auto. I didn't get a point deduction for not putting it in N in signals during my driver's license road test. I have been to many DL road tests in US for friends and family, never seen anybody lose a point for that. Obviously it is not incorrect.

Agreed.

There is no evidence to suggest that waiting at a signal in D with brake on is detrimental to the tranny. In such a scenario the car is simply trying to move ahead while the brakes are acting against it. It is an FE issue since the car is trying to move by spending energy and not being able to do it. Which is wasteful.

[manavdotcom]

I rather put in N and keep my leg free for 30-40 secs , instead of pushing the brakes and be more conscious that slight movement of my leg will move the car.

What could be purpose of neutral other than halting for some time which less than time where you would move it to Park ?

I'm for a guide for dummies. Went to Tirumala and unfortunately the going up road was closed for repair and the old road which has about 55 hair pin bends was open for two way Traffic. Had to use all my knowledge gained from here/there to handle it. Someone told me of a misconception that AT won't rollback on a hill !

[Neilguy]

Originally Posted by manavdotcom

I rather put in N and keep my leg free for 30-40 secs , instead of pushing the brakes and be more conscious that slight movement of my leg will move the car.

What could be purpose of neutral other than halting for some time which less than time where you would move it to Park ?

I'm for a guide for dummies. Went to Tirumala and unfortunately the going up road was closed for repair and the old road which has about 55 hair pin bends was open for two way Traffic. Had to use all my knowledge gained from here/there to handle it. Someone told me of a misconception that AT won't rollback on a hill !

N is for the (rare) times that your car needs to be towed with the ignition switched off. Other times, whenever you want to simulate "putting your car into Neutral and brake as on a MT", shift the vehicle to P (for Park).

While ascending or even descending steep slopes, put your vehicle in low gear (2 or even 1 for very steep) to help with more power and engine braking.

[shankar.balan]

I ve not had loads of experience with AT vehicles overall. But I have driven them a few times and recently I rented an AT for a reasonable time when I was on holiday. It was a motoring holiday and I covered about 1200-1300 odd miles in that AT vehicle over 10 days or so.
Amazingly stress free in terms of driving comfort. Left leg felt so relaxed in comparison to my normal daily drive where one i constantly changing gears.

Whenever I came to a halt in a traffic situation - red light or traffic snarl or whatever I would simply put it in N, pull the hand brake and wait. I used this method even while driving in the hills and on inclines.
If the wait in traffic was only likely to be for a few seconds I would simply keep my foot on the footbrake leaving the car in D mode.
It was excellent to use in SPORT mode - holding each lower gear for fractionally longer than otherwise to get the revs up a bit and enjoy the feeling of being closer to one's machine!
It is true that leaving the car in D mode with one's foot on the brake for prolonged periods is likely to impact Fuel consumption negatively. It also means that if the vehicle is engaged in D with the foot brake on over prolonged periods, this might have some amount of detrimental effect on the auto gyro clutch and transmission system. (Much like sitting at a traffic light with the manual car in gear with the clutch depressed).
Hence it is generally considered good practice to shove it in N mode if one is going be waiting for longer than a few seconds.
The essence is that theres no real "right way" to drive an AUTOBOX. The method of usage will depend to a large extent on what one is comfortable doing and to some extent on one's "training" and knowledge about vehicles and overall interest in caring for them.

[supremeBaleno]

I don't think waiting in D is 'incorrect' from the driving perspective. Only issue I see is the brake-lights blinding those behind.

Originally Posted by Samurai

But in auto, shifting from N to D has to be done carefully, else it will move further down.

BTW even if you go a slot or two further down, it would just be one of the drive-gears (3,2,L) - should not be disastrous like say putting in R. I hate the gated-shift in the A-Star, but looks like it would be helpful in this situation, since it will go down only till D, as other gears require a lateral movement of the lever.

Originally Posted by Neilguy

Instead of putting your vehicle in N and engaging the hand brake, it'll be more prudent to just put the vehicle in P, nothing extra! Move back to D when you want to move.

I read somewhere that if you get rear-ended when in P, it can really damage your transmission, since it is akin to being towed in P.

Originally Posted by Neilguy

But the whole point of an AT is "NOT" to use the gear shift frequently, and this just negates that aspect.

You have a point here. A very valid one indeed, from an AT-user perspective, which would explain why people prefer to stay in D with brakes pressed.

[Neilguy]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I would simply put it in N, pull the hand brake and wait. I used this method even while driving in the hills and on inclines.

I would sincerely recommend that on an incline, put the vehicle in P (instead of N), and then Handbrake. Your car is relying only on the handbrake, which could be dangerous.

Putting it in N and pulling the handbrake is almost akin to switching off a MT car, putting it in Neutral and putting the handbrake on. Usually, people put the car in gear and then put the handbrake, right.

[dot]

Originally Posted by Neilguy

even descending steep slopes, put your vehicle in low gear (2 or even 1 for very steep) to help with more power and engine braking.

Very important point. It also saves your brake pads from frying. Realtime experience with me when brakepads started smoking as I was pressing brake pedals continuously while descending downhill with tranny slotted in D.

[Samurai]

When the car is in stationary position, the wheels aren't moving. So, why would there be wearing of brake pads?

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Hence it is generally considered good practice to shove it in N mode if one is going be waiting for longer than a few seconds.

It is generally considered good practice by who? Can you please provide some links to any government issued driver's manual or manufacturer provided car owner's manual recommending the same? I am still wondering how I missed such a good practice after nearly two decades automatic car driving.

[sgiitk]

@dot: See my post at No.58 in this thread.

[shankar.balan]

It is generally considered good practice by other experienced people whose opinions and inputs I value personally and who also like you, own and drive AT vehicles in various parts of the world including India and to whom I happen to have spoken while doing some research prior to renting that AT vehicle.
And, with all due respect, there is no need for you to take the offensive on a perfectly innocuous observation. Also, everything in this world does not necessarily need to be proven by virtue of being mentioned in the "government issued" driver's or owner's manual.

Originally Posted by Samurai

It is generally considered good practice by who? Can you please provide some links to any government issued driver's manual or manufacturer provided car owner's manual recommending the same? I am still wondering how I missed such a good practice after nearly two decades automatic car driving.

[supremeBaleno]

@Samurai, car-manual does recommend moving to Neutral while idling, as quoted by manim in previous page from the Civic_AT manual. It is there in the WagonR-AT manual too and I remember reading it in A-Star_AT manual also. The other use of N being to start a car when stalled.

[shankar.balan]

point well appreciated.

when coming to a stop, my sequence was to press the footbrake while the vehicle was still in D and come to a dead halt. While still keeping the foot on the brake, I would pull the handbrake, slip the lever into N and then release the footbrake. Invariably this was happening at a roundabout or at a traffic light only, since there was hardly ever any need to stop the car and wait while on an incline.

When driving my MT vehicle and trying to park on a steep incline I usually bring the car to a dead halt while still in gear by braking fully and depressing the clutch as required as the vehicle slows down to a stop, in order to prevent stalling. Then I shove on the handbrake and switch off while leaving the car in gear and taking my foot off the clutch. But in the plains, I leave the car with the handbrake on and the gear lever in Neutral. This is normally suggested so as to prevent any damage to the gears in case the car is bumped into by someone else and/ or forcibly towed away.

Originally Posted by Neilguy

I would sincerely recommend that on an incline, put the vehicle in P (instead of N), and then Handbrake. Your car is relying only on the handbrake, which could be dangerous.

Putting it in N and pulling the handbrake is almost akin to switching off a MT car, putting it in Neutral and putting the handbrake on. Usually, people put the car in gear and then put the handbrake, right.

[dot]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

@dot: See my post at No.58 in this thread.

Checked. Thanks for mention this. Similar (and scary) experience must say. Mine was in Massachusetts on a Camry while coming down from Mt. Greylock.

The downhill utility of D2 (or lower) is usually not talked about. But very important when needed.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

And, with all due respect, there is no need for you to take the offensive on a perfectly innocuous observation. Also, everything in this world does not necessarily need to be proven by virtue of being mentioned in the driver's or owner's manual.

Well, I am not the one who is saying "My method is good and yours is bad". Besides, I always keep technical discussions very rational without taking offense. This is not a personal issue for me. I am just curious about the source of this knowledge. If it is your own personal observation and deduction, I have no issues with that too. In my experience, the driver's manuals and owner's manuals in US are so exhaustive, it would be very odd if they left out such a recommended method. They even tell us the recommended way to keep our hands on the steering. Although, most of us eventually use what is comfortable to us.

I only want to say this, "waiting in D" at signals is not incorrect. If you have other preferred methods, good for you. Please don't go around claiming N is good, D is bad.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

@Samurai, car-manual does recommend moving to Neutral while idling, as quoted by manim in previous page from the Civic_AT manual. It is there in the WagonR-AT manual too and I remember reading it in A-Star_AT manual also. The other use of N being to start a car when stalled.

Thanks, now I know the source of the claim. That's all I asked for.


PS: This has started sounding like the egg breaking war between Lilliput and Blefuscu.