Starting trouble in LPG mode

Hashim · 21st March 2009, 22:57

I have converted my Maruti 1000 to LPG few months back. Now the car is giving slight trouble in starting. Starting problem is not when the car is in petrol mode, but in LPG the car has these starting related problem:

1. Car will start in LPG when engine is hot in single self.
2. Car will start in Petrol in morning in single self but never in LPG. It just refuses to start. But this is not a problem as I always start and run car few kms in petrol then switch to LPG.
3. The main problem: When I have reached my destination and car is parked for say one or two hour (its in LPG mode) and when I try to start (in LPG) it will sometimes start in single self and run fine, but sometimes engine cut off soon after it started (cut off just after a second of starting) and then no matter how much self I give, it will not start.

Car is tuned properly and I have got the LPG kit checked and valve cleaned few times but no luck. What should I do?

HimuraKenshin · 21st March 2009, 23:14

I too have an LPG kit but its in my esteem. I think that there may be a problem with the solenoid valves. Do get them checked. btw, what kit are you using? is it by ant chance a sequential injection kit?

rapidsnail · 21st March 2009, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hashim

1. Car will start in LPG when engine is hot in single self.
2. Car will start in Petrol in morning in single self but never in LPG. It just refuses to start. But this is not a problem as I always start and run car few kms in petrol then switch to LPG.
3. The main problem: When I have reached my destination and car is parked for say one or two hour (its in LPG mode) and when I try to start (in LPG) it will sometimes start in single self and run fine, but sometimes engine cut off soon after it started (cut off just after a second of starting) and then no matter how much self I give, it will not start.

I have always heard that any LPG/CNG kit is designed to start the car on Petrol and then switch to alternate fuel few seconds later. Looking at your thread it looks like you have manual setting for fuel selection. I think the startup should be always in Petrol mode.

More comments/suggestions would be a great help.

Hashim · 22nd March 2009, 10:08

The kit is Hovel Classic Car Gas - Product Catalogue - Hovel Auto Gas

It has manual selection for fuel. On previous sunday I went for a complete gas kit check and spend 2 hours there so that engine can cool down I can show him starting problem, but everytime he started the car it started in one self

But last night the problem occured again

@HimuraKenshin: Yes I told him that there maybe fault in solenoid but he said that if car runs fine on changing to LPG while runnning then kit is working fine, its lame excuse I think.

@rapidsnail: I cannot start car in petrol mode all time as maruti 1000 has mechanical fuel pump and petrol takes lots of time to reach engine.

HimuraKenshin · 22nd March 2009, 14:36

My mechanic once advised me that in the mornings, i should put the key inside then turn it 6-7 times inside it (on and off) to the half-shelf mode. he said that this frees the solenoid valve completely! Dont know how?
He also said that just before starting it, keep the key in on mode and wait for a KRRRR sound to come from the LPG gas meter!
My car does not give any problem now!

Hashim · 22nd March 2009, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by HimuraKenshin

My mechanic once advised me that in the mornings, i should put the key inside then turn it 6-7 times inside it (on and off) to the half-shelf mode. he said that this frees the solenoid valve completely! Dont know how?
He also said that just before starting it, keep the key in on mode and wait for a KRRRR sound to come from the LPG gas meter!
My car does not give any problem now!

Thanks

I'll try this and post the results. But which gas meter are you talking about? The meter on doash board or the meter fitted on tank? When ever I switch to LPG mode I hear a "ting" sound from LPG tank valve.

ask77 · 22nd March 2009, 17:19

the fault seems to be in the ignition system. you have to check your spark plugs and high tension spark plug leads as well as ignition coil , distributor and point. LPG needs a much hotter spark to ignite than petrol since its ignition flash point is much higher than petrol , this causes the ignition system to fail especially in older carburetor cars these faults are intermittent and very hard to detect. You should replace the spark plugs and the leads immediately as 90% of the time these are culprits and produce starting problems . the gap of plugs should be reset to .8 mm since a smaller gap reduces the load on the ignition system. also try to switch to petrol at the end of the day since this will lead to your carburetor being filled up with petrol so that you can start on petrol the next morning.

nithz · 22nd March 2009, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by rapidsnail

I have always heard that any LPG/CNG kit is designed to start the car on Petrol and then switch to alternate fuel few seconds later. Looking at your thread it looks like you have manual setting for fuel selection. I think the startup should be always in Petrol mode.

More comments/suggestions would be a great help.

The lpg kit which comes for mpfi driven vehicles come along with auto switching of petrol to gas on start up ,it starts with petrol and as you rev up it switches to gas.On carb driven vehicles it is always better to start up with petrol and then change to gas manually as you said.

Hashim · 22nd March 2009, 23:15

I think you are right ask77! I'll reset the gaps of existing spark plugs and if nothing helps then change them with new set. Why change wires? do they become less conducting with time? How about using irridium spark plugs?

emkay456 · 23rd March 2009, 11:55

I think it is always advised to cold start the engine using petrol and then switch over to LPG. I have seen few of my friends do that.

nikkibike · 23rd March 2009, 16:30

Guess the system works fine. Still, try 1 or 2 gentle taps on the solenoid valve when you get the trouble again, juz to ensure that there is no stuckups inside.
Incase if you are getting new plugs, try for 4 point plugs or else iridium plugs. Both works efficiently with LPG!

Spitfire · 23rd March 2009, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hashim

I cannot start car in petrol mode all time as maruti 1000 has mechanical fuel pump and petrol takes lots of time to reach engine.

Is it me?? or is there something wrong in that statement?

Always use the petrol mode for cold starts. It will save the the engine internals too.

Hashim · 23rd March 2009, 20:56

Today car failed to start on LPG in middle way, I started car in petrol mode and changed to LPG after approx 1km then on the way there was a speed breaker and due to wrong gear engine stalled and then it did not started. I tried key turning on/off few times but nothing worked. (so it means there is no issue of solenoid sticking) Now problem is that I know car will start in petrol mode but switching to petrol mode means again waiting for some time for petrol to come as there is no electronic fuel pump. But anyhow I have to wait and car started. I went to mechanic and he said plugs are ok but distributor needs cleaning. Till now car is starting in LPG. Lets see if car works fine or not.

@Spitfire: Yes I do cold start the car in petrol, at end of the day I switch to petrol again so that I will have no trouble in morning but actual problem is in day when car refuses to start in LPG.

Nitin · 23rd March 2009, 23:17

I remember the same issue in our Esteem,way back in 1998. We used to start the car in the 'Petrol' mode, and after the engine gets warmed up/we've covered 2-3kms etc, we would switch to the LPG mode. Our mechanic mentioned something about getting the whole system to run smoothly with fuel, and then introducing the LPG to prevent 'clogs' or other issues. Not too sure what the technical aspect of this was,though.

slipstream · 25th March 2009, 15:36

I've had frequent issues when my 1000 would refuse to start in petrol mode but would start immediately in LPG mode. Tried fixing this about 4-5 times then got fedup...The car has been running entirely on LPG for the last 6 months and has not had any starting problems whatsoever

21st March 2009, 22:57	#1
Hashim BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Aligarh Posts: 449 Thanked: 49 Times View My Garage	Starting trouble in LPG mode I have converted my Maruti 1000 to LPG few months back. Now the car is giving slight trouble in starting. Starting problem is not when the car is in petrol mode, but in LPG the car has these starting related problem: 1. Car will start in LPG when engine is hot in single self. 2. Car will start in Petrol in morning in single self but never in LPG. It just refuses to start. But this is not a problem as I always start and run car few kms in petrol then switch to LPG. 3. The main problem: When I have reached my destination and car is parked for say one or two hour (its in LPG mode) and when I try to start (in LPG) it will sometimes start in single self and run fine, but sometimes engine cut off soon after it started (cut off just after a second of starting) and then no matter how much self I give, it will not start. Car is tuned properly and I have got the LPG kit checked and valve cleaned few times but no luck. What should I do?
	() Thanks

21st March 2009, 23:14	#2
HimuraKenshin BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Mumbai/London Posts: 287 Thanked: 328 Times	I too have an LPG kit but its in my esteem. I think that there may be a problem with the solenoid valves. Do get them checked. btw, what kit are you using? is it by ant chance a sequential injection kit?
	() Thanks

22nd March 2009, 10:08	#4
Hashim BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Aligarh Posts: 449 Thanked: 49 Times View My Garage	The kit is Hovel Classic Car Gas - Product Catalogue - Hovel Auto Gas It has manual selection for fuel. On previous sunday I went for a complete gas kit check and spend 2 hours there so that engine can cool down I can show him starting problem, but everytime he started the car it started in one self But last night the problem occured again @HimuraKenshin: Yes I told him that there maybe fault in solenoid but he said that if car runs fine on changing to LPG while runnning then kit is working fine, its lame excuse I think. @rapidsnail: I cannot start car in petrol mode all time as maruti 1000 has mechanical fuel pump and petrol takes lots of time to reach engine.
	() Thanks

22nd March 2009, 14:36	#5
HimuraKenshin BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Mumbai/London Posts: 287 Thanked: 328 Times	My mechanic once advised me that in the mornings, i should put the key inside then turn it 6-7 times inside it (on and off) to the half-shelf mode. he said that this frees the solenoid valve completely! Dont know how? He also said that just before starting it, keep the key in on mode and wait for a KRRRR sound to come from the LPG gas meter! My car does not give any problem now!
	() Thanks

22nd March 2009, 17:19	#7
ask77 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Agra Posts: 147 Thanked: 23 Times	the fault seems to be in the ignition system. you have to check your spark plugs and high tension spark plug leads as well as ignition coil , distributor and point. LPG needs a much hotter spark to ignite than petrol since its ignition flash point is much higher than petrol , this causes the ignition system to fail especially in older carburetor cars these faults are intermittent and very hard to detect. You should replace the spark plugs and the leads immediately as 90% of the time these are culprits and produce starting problems . the gap of plugs should be reset to .8 mm since a smaller gap reduces the load on the ignition system. also try to switch to petrol at the end of the day since this will lead to your carburetor being filled up with petrol so that you can start on petrol the next morning.
	() Thanks

22nd March 2009, 23:15	#9
Hashim BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Aligarh Posts: 449 Thanked: 49 Times View My Garage	I think you are right ask77! I'll reset the gaps of existing spark plugs and if nothing helps then change them with new set. Why change wires? do they become less conducting with time? How about using irridium spark plugs?
	() Thanks

23rd March 2009, 11:55	#10
emkay456 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 388 Thanked: 7 Times	I think it is always advised to cold start the engine using petrol and then switch over to LPG. I have seen few of my friends do that.
	() Thanks

23rd March 2009, 16:30	#11
nikkibike BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: QoAS Posts: 526 Thanked: 4 Times	Guess the system works fine. Still, try 1 or 2 gentle taps on the solenoid valve when you get the trouble again, juz to ensure that there is no stuckups inside. Incase if you are getting new plugs, try for 4 point plugs or else iridium plugs. Both works efficiently with LPG!
	() Thanks

23rd March 2009, 20:56	#13
Hashim BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Aligarh Posts: 449 Thanked: 49 Times View My Garage	Today car failed to start on LPG in middle way, I started car in petrol mode and changed to LPG after approx 1km then on the way there was a speed breaker and due to wrong gear engine stalled and then it did not started. I tried key turning on/off few times but nothing worked. (so it means there is no issue of solenoid sticking) Now problem is that I know car will start in petrol mode but switching to petrol mode means again waiting for some time for petrol to come as there is no electronic fuel pump. But anyhow I have to wait and car started. I went to mechanic and he said plugs are ok but distributor needs cleaning. Till now car is starting in LPG. Lets see if car works fine or not. @Spitfire: Yes I do cold start the car in petrol, at end of the day I switch to petrol again so that I will have no trouble in morning but actual problem is in day when car refuses to start in LPG.
	() Thanks

23rd March 2009, 23:17	#14
Nitin Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,294 Thanked: 20 Times View My Garage	I remember the same issue in our Esteem,way back in 1998. We used to start the car in the 'Petrol' mode, and after the engine gets warmed up/we've covered 2-3kms etc, we would switch to the LPG mode. Our mechanic mentioned something about getting the whole system to run smoothly with fuel, and then introducing the LPG to prevent 'clogs' or other issues. Not too sure what the technical aspect of this was,though.
	() Thanks

25th March 2009, 15:36	#15
slipstream BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 149 Thanked: 18 Times	I've had frequent issues when my 1000 would refuse to start in petrol mode but would start immediately in LPG mode. Tried fixing this about 4-5 times then got fedup...The car has been running entirely on LPG for the last 6 months and has not had any starting problems whatsoever
	() Thanks