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Originally Posted by Shan2nu Any car can be driven fast irrespective of shape, size, suspension setup, tyres, aerodynamics etc. |
Yes, any car can be driven fast. No denying that. But what I am trying to say is if you take a M800 with stock tires how fast could you drive it? Now by changing the tires, improving braking, making it handle better won't you be able to drive faster taking less risks? Would you feel safer driving a stock M800 at its limit keeping all things stock or feel safer driving a M800 that handles, corners, brakes better? I am sure the latter is more fun to drive (being able to extract further limits) & SAFER. The only point I am trying to make is, its SAFER to be driving a car at its limits that can handle, brake better than a stock.
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Originally Posted by ananthkamath I don't claim to be a great driver, but I consider myself lucky to have ridden with people that are. On one instance, my mentor Sahukar Srinath did Mysore-Bangalore in under 1:45 on the old single road in a Landmaster with a matador engine, going one on one with a pesky Esteem we met on the way. I was in the passenger seat, holding on for dear life. It was hilarious to see the Esteem's show of power on the straights, but having trailbraked into every single corner, and having taken every single corner at the absolute limit, you could clearly tell who is the better driver. |
Ananth, I am sure you have been in this scene enough to realize that you will come across some people whose driving will defy all logic. JD Madan kept clocking faster times in a underpowered Getz on track while there were much faster cars with good drivers too. But he is in a completely different league. Yes, I do agree with you point that a particular driver can harness the limits of a car better than another person.
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Again, "stress", "soft", "stiff" etc are just subjective, and frankly it offends my sensibilities as an engineer. Your assessment of the Sonata or Elantra is what you think of the car, not its actual capabilities as assessed by an expert driver. Its better if technical issues like this are left out of the present thread.
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I am no expert, it was just my observation. I am hoping you guys would chip in with your experiences too.
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This is a sweeping statement again. Maybe for the race track, yes. Not true in part or in whole, for a real-world road surface.
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For eg, if you are doing the Bangalore-Mysore section at the limits of the car and self (considering you have a good driver). If the cars to be driven are a OHC Vtec & 1.6 Fiesta which of the two would you think would reach faster? Safer with less scary moments? Consider the road to be devoid of traffic, say like a track. I would say, the fiesta will make the cut faster because it can take the flowing corners better because of the chassy, suspension being better (relatively in my opinion) to the Vtec. Maybe others might feel exactly the opposite? Point here I am trying to make is even in real life conditions, if you are driving to the limits of the car (assuming there is a good driver behind the wheel) will a slightly modded car (to negate its weak points) wont be faster/safer than its former stock avtaar?
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There is no doubt that the best gripping tire is essential to getting the maximum out of a car. But the point is, can YOU get the maximum out of that best gripping tire SAFELY? I think not.
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Definitely not, I agree with you. That still wouldn't mean one goes around driving a Swift D with the stock tires SMIL supplies thinking you won't be able to reach the limits of a PP2 or AD07 (just using them as an example). Recently a friend found out that his swift shod with JK vectra's (upsized) displayed their limits a lot earlier than the driver expected and ended up crashing the car into a pit. Is it worth trying to drive fast with a tire that cannot grip to match the limit of the car? Or is it safer to drive with a set of tires who even at the limit of the car would give you less chances of locking up, or loosing grip around a corner? Assuming that corners are being taken at a good speed, not exceeding the laws of physics. For eg, one cannot go into a corner at 150 (when the optimum max speed of entry should be 100) and expect to not take the car out of control. That would be just plain stupidity.
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Very simple reason for that. When a grippy tire lets go mid-corner you are already traveling way faster than a less grippy tire, and most definitely lack the skills to control the vehicle. With an inferior tire you are traveling slower and are less likely to be at the limit of the chassis, thus improving your chances of a recovery.
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I seem to have a slightly contradicting view here. Do correct me if I am wrong. A inferior tire will have less rolling resistance, which means a car will definitely be achieving faster speeds till the time you hit the corner (provided you haven't been wasting time spinning wheels). Its a different issue whether that set of tire can take the corner safely, but a superior tire will probably slow your entry speed a bit, but let you keep a faster corner speed throughout? Correct me if my theory is wrong.
Here is a handson experience from a fellow member karthik kumar: He says on his swift D shod with JK Vectra's his car felt a lot faster from 0-100 or reaching top end because of the low rolling resistance. But once he switched to the AD07's his 0-100 timing has suffered a bit due to the extra grip provided by these tires. But what he is very happy is that he can maintain sufficiently way higher speeds through corners even if his entry speed isn't as good as with the JK's. IMO the fun driving with the AD07's and being able to take corners way quicker (extracting the limits of the car way better and also feeling in control than JK's) is what I would prefer doing.
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If you had time to shift gears, it wasnt a panic braking situation at all. I can prove this through simple math but I think it will be a wasted effort.
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Yes, panic stricken situations is again a relative word to each person. No point in discussing that theoretically. Only way to sort that out would be a on-road experience where two people can compare if the situation qualifies enough to be tagged "panic situation" and assess if a driver A was able to use engine braking (or any other tecniques) while a driver B may have felt he would have just used the brakes.
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Originally Posted by abhik Practice countersteering
Weave through stones(in that empty ground!!not the road) and tighten the gap while increasing your speed. This will help with your manuvereability skills and will also help you to judge the car's size accurately and will help you judge the amount of gap to keep while cutting through traffic.
(Again on the empty ground)speed and turn as if entering into a corner and regulate your braking, you will know when your brakes lock up and how hard you can brake into corners without locking up. |
I completely agree. Just by practicing these on an empty ground will go a long way in teaching you the difference it makes.
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Originally Posted by iceman91 If there are faults here everyone has the right to correct them. |
Amit, if read carefully no one has been against the idea of correcting faults. But all that has been happening on this thread is misinterpreting the intention of this thread and pointless bashing at each other. Oh in between all this, some members pretending to be "the preaching samaritans" by saying its irresponsible to drive fast on public roads, unnecessarily taking digs at members/cars that were driving beyond the limits others did etc. Yes, it IS irresponsible. But we already know that don't we. I would rather be on road knowing that the guy in front/behind me knows how to drive and won't kill himself by stupidly entering a corner at speeds not meant for the car/man. This thread is to help people understand that each human/machine have limits and its best that one doesn't cross those limits. Here limits may vary from person to person.