CNG in Swift

garychopper · 26th November 2008, 22:50

my friend is planning to install CNG kit in his swift LXI. anyone here who has experience with it? how does the swift responds, and which is the best kit which can be mated well with the swifts engine. thanks in advance.

Khandelwal · 27th November 2008, 12:04

I don't know personally anyone owning a swift converted to CNG.
However, I have seen Swift/Dezire at the CNG filling stations.

Converting to CNG will not be a problem. Swift has a 1300 cc engine and will respond great. (You would also have to go for Lambda and TAP)

Make sure that the conversion workmanship is top of the order. I would advice not to get it done from anyone who has recently opened a cng conversion workshop - rather go to one who has ample experience in CNG conversion.
Please bear in mind that getting this job done would void the warranty. Your friend may consult any Maruti Authorised workshop/dealer for CNG conversion - these people charge more but provide their own warranty.

As far as CNG kit is concerned, tomasseto, bedini etc. italian kits are good and any of these can be fitted, but again workmanship has to be top of the order even if you may have to spend a couple of thousands more.

Also, ensure that the RC is endorsed.

Vishesh · 27th November 2008, 14:20

yeah..CNG conversion is absolutely not a problem in the Swift. I had once driven a kitted Swift and i didnt feel much of a difference especially in urban traffic. But yes, as Khandelwal said, make sure that your fitter is an experienced one with the right type of technical know-how. Believe me, the quality of install does go a long way in improving performance and reliability.You can go in for Tomasetto Achilles (VFM) with just the lambda. Best of luck and keep us posted.

coolaxe · 18th December 2008, 12:51

Hi,

Have u got the cng fitted in the swift Lxi. I am also planning to go for the same.

drjanakpatel · 18th December 2008, 16:17

yes you can definately go for cng in swift. one of my friend owns a swift zxi and he has done 15000km with it. i myself have both my cars running on cng. go for a kit with lambda and TAP. ensure that all the parts are original. e.g. if you are going to use tomasetto kit then make sure that TAP and conversion switch are of the same company. do not use any chinese parts. also the guy fitting it should be experienced. if its a good fit then u will feel no difference between petrol or cng. ultimate thing is setting.

phamilyman · 18th December 2008, 17:48

It does LOVELY. Drop at Apra/Marketing times etc sometime to check out.

coolaxe · 18th December 2008, 19:50

I am planning to buy the Swift Lxi soon and get the cng fitted into it. Have talked to the dealer. He has good experience in cng fitments and he is giving dealer warranty on it. The dealership owner himself drives an SX4 with CNG and his manager drives a Swift CNG.It works well for them.

I asked an executive from the same dealer to inquire whether they fitted TAP along with the CNG kit. He asked the same to the acual fitters and they said that TAP isn't required bcz they do the wiring in such a way that the car's performance is not at all affected.

Now, I learnt about these technicalities (TAP,lambda etc.) from other threads where senior BHPians have shared their valuable knowledge.Even here drjanakpatel has mentioned about getting TAP along with the kit.

Now I am a little confused about the whole thing. Is there any truth in what the executive has said ???

drjanakpatel · 18th December 2008, 23:58

TAP is a must for cng kit. you can do away with lambda but not TAP. i would suggest even lambda. at speeds more than 110 i used to get check engine light without lambda. also lambda improves mileage and pickup.

Khandelwal · 19th December 2008, 10:11

I would say its the other way round.

Lambda is a MUST. This is as per requirements from RTO as well. If you do not have a Lambda the RTO guy will not pass your car for RC endorsement.

Malpractise alert:
If your dealer says that he is going to charge you extra for endorsement then don't take his offer - instead, a couple of visits to the RTO and if all your papers are correct, endorsement will be done. (The RTO charges are around Rs. 600)

Quote:

Originally Posted by drjanakpatel

TAP is a must for cng kit. you can do away with lambda but not TAP. i would suggest even lambda. at speeds more than 110 i used to get check engine light without lambda. also lambda improves mileage and pickup.

ask77 · 19th December 2008, 23:58

Lambda is needed to keep the emission under control . The catalytic converter as well as oxygen sensor may fail if lambda is not used . Driving without lambda will also cause engine check lite to come up this is because of the mixture becoming too rich or lean

WanderNomad · 20th December 2008, 02:52

One of my friends has been driving a kitted Swift Vxi since quite sometime and is extremely satisfied. Even I have drived it and I must say the difference wasnt much. He hasnt got the lambda installed, only TAP.

drjanakpatel · 21st December 2008, 14:45

neither lambda nor TAP is required for RTO endorsement. TAP is timing advance processor and is required for the lack in pick up at low rpm with cng. lamda is required for adjusting the gas flow to the engine according to requirement. without lambda if the setting is good then there is no problem except at high rpm when the check engine light comes on. with lambda there is improvement in pick up, fuel efficiency and yes emissions. only lambda without TAP is not good, coz lambda will not adjust the timing.

WanderNomad · 22nd December 2008, 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by drjanakpatel

neither lambda nor TAP is required for RTO endorsement.

AFAIK Lambda is related to meeting pollution norms and is required for endorsement. Of course there are ways to byepass such norms in India by a practice called Bribery.

ashthedivx · 22nd December 2008, 09:45

Rather then confusing you much more, i would suggest you to go for Lambda and TAP as well to keep the drivebility of the car next to petrol. However, it might cost you 3-4K in-total but will surely make CNG a pleasure fuel for you.

aaggoswami · 22nd December 2008, 10:47

We are using CNG in our Maruti 800 and I would like to put down some experience here.

The response definitely goes down. One has to adapt upto some extent. In case of Maruti 800, I feel that the after midrange the performance drops easily. Can handle city riding.

Swift is already not known for good bottom end torque. CNG will affect performance. Not by much as its now coming with ECU, but still there will be affect. In case of carb engines, there is chance of engine damage, but not in case with cars with those ECMs.
I think that try some other Swift fitted with CNG. I feel that the poor bottom end response will give some irritation to you.
Also sometime we have to fit in booster in the fuel line to improve response, if you are not satisfied with response.
Boot space will go away. Chech for suspension bottoming out or not. We had to install one more leaf spring at rear. This is not possible in case of Swift and the cylinder will itself weigh over 80 kgs.

26th November 2008, 22:50	#1
garychopper BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: delhi/milan/brussels Posts: 43 Thanked: Once	CNG in Swift my friend is planning to install CNG kit in his swift LXI. anyone here who has experience with it? how does the swift responds, and which is the best kit which can be mated well with the swifts engine. thanks in advance.
	() Thanks

27th November 2008, 12:04	#2
Khandelwal BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Delhi Posts: 48 Thanked: Once	I don't know personally anyone owning a swift converted to CNG. However, I have seen Swift/Dezire at the CNG filling stations. Converting to CNG will not be a problem. Swift has a 1300 cc engine and will respond great. (You would also have to go for Lambda and TAP) Make sure that the conversion workmanship is top of the order. I would advice not to get it done from anyone who has recently opened a cng conversion workshop - rather go to one who has ample experience in CNG conversion. Please bear in mind that getting this job done would void the warranty. Your friend may consult any Maruti Authorised workshop/dealer for CNG conversion - these people charge more but provide their own warranty. As far as CNG kit is concerned, tomasseto, bedini etc. italian kits are good and any of these can be fitted, but again workmanship has to be top of the order even if you may have to spend a couple of thousands more. Also, ensure that the RC is endorsed.
	() Thanks

27th November 2008, 14:20	#3
Vishesh BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 96 Thanked: 27 Times	yeah..CNG conversion is absolutely not a problem in the Swift. I had once driven a kitted Swift and i didnt feel much of a difference especially in urban traffic. But yes, as Khandelwal said, make sure that your fitter is an experienced one with the right type of technical know-how. Believe me, the quality of install does go a long way in improving performance and reliability.You can go in for Tomasetto Achilles (VFM) with just the lambda. Best of luck and keep us posted.
	() Thanks

18th December 2008, 12:51	#4
coolaxe Newbie Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 9 Thanked: 0 Times	Hi, Have u got the cng fitted in the swift Lxi. I am also planning to go for the same.
	() Thanks

18th December 2008, 16:17	#5
drjanakpatel BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: rajkot Posts: 105 Thanked: 84 Times	cng in swift zxi yes you can definately go for cng in swift. one of my friend owns a swift zxi and he has done 15000km with it. i myself have both my cars running on cng. go for a kit with lambda and TAP. ensure that all the parts are original. e.g. if you are going to use tomasetto kit then make sure that TAP and conversion switch are of the same company. do not use any chinese parts. also the guy fitting it should be experienced. if its a good fit then u will feel no difference between petrol or cng. ultimate thing is setting.
	() Thanks

18th December 2008, 17:48	#6
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,975 Thanked: 4,673 Times	It does LOVELY. Drop at Apra/Marketing times etc sometime to check out.
	() Thanks

18th December 2008, 19:50	#7
coolaxe Newbie Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 9 Thanked: 0 Times	I am planning to buy the Swift Lxi soon and get the cng fitted into it. Have talked to the dealer. He has good experience in cng fitments and he is giving dealer warranty on it. The dealership owner himself drives an SX4 with CNG and his manager drives a Swift CNG.It works well for them. I asked an executive from the same dealer to inquire whether they fitted TAP along with the CNG kit. He asked the same to the acual fitters and they said that TAP isn't required bcz they do the wiring in such a way that the car's performance is not at all affected. Now, I learnt about these technicalities (TAP,lambda etc.) from other threads where senior BHPians have shared their valuable knowledge.Even here drjanakpatel has mentioned about getting TAP along with the kit. Now I am a little confused about the whole thing. Is there any truth in what the executive has said ???
	() Thanks

18th December 2008, 23:58	#8
drjanakpatel BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: rajkot Posts: 105 Thanked: 84 Times	TAP is a must for cng kit. you can do away with lambda but not TAP. i would suggest even lambda. at speeds more than 110 i used to get check engine light without lambda. also lambda improves mileage and pickup.
	() Thanks

19th December 2008, 23:58	#10
ask77 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Agra Posts: 148 Thanked: 25 Times	Lambda is needed to keep the emission under control . The catalytic converter as well as oxygen sensor may fail if lambda is not used . Driving without lambda will also cause engine check lite to come up this is because of the mixture becoming too rich or lean
	() Thanks

20th December 2008, 02:52	#11
WanderNomad BHPian Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Delhi Posts: 271 Thanked: 11 Times	One of my friends has been driving a kitted Swift Vxi since quite sometime and is extremely satisfied. Even I have drived it and I must say the difference wasnt much. He hasnt got the lambda installed, only TAP.
	() Thanks

21st December 2008, 14:45	#12
drjanakpatel BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: rajkot Posts: 105 Thanked: 84 Times	lambda and TAP neither lambda nor TAP is required for RTO endorsement. TAP is timing advance processor and is required for the lack in pick up at low rpm with cng. lamda is required for adjusting the gas flow to the engine according to requirement. without lambda if the setting is good then there is no problem except at high rpm when the check engine light comes on. with lambda there is improvement in pick up, fuel efficiency and yes emissions. only lambda without TAP is not good, coz lambda will not adjust the timing.
	() Thanks

22nd December 2008, 09:45	#14
ashthedivx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 24 Times	Rather then confusing you much more, i would suggest you to go for Lambda and TAP as well to keep the drivebility of the car next to petrol. However, it might cost you 3-4K in-total but will surely make CNG a pleasure fuel for you.
	() Thanks

22nd December 2008, 10:47	#15
aaggoswami Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara Posts: 4,997 Thanked: 3,000 Times	We are using CNG in our Maruti 800 and I would like to put down some experience here. The response definitely goes down. One has to adapt upto some extent. In case of Maruti 800, I feel that the after midrange the performance drops easily. Can handle city riding. Swift is already not known for good bottom end torque. CNG will affect performance. Not by much as its now coming with ECU, but still there will be affect. In case of carb engines, there is chance of engine damage, but not in case with cars with those ECMs. I think that try some other Swift fitted with CNG. I feel that the poor bottom end response will give some irritation to you. Also sometime we have to fit in booster in the fuel line to improve response, if you are not satisfied with response. Boot space will go away. Chech for suspension bottoming out or not. We had to install one more leaf spring at rear. This is not possible in case of Swift and the cylinder will itself weigh over 80 kgs.
	() Thanks