[HIGHNOON]

Hi My friends Safari 2.2 vtt, had a complete breakdown on the 13th Oct. 2009, @ 20000km full serviced at authorized service stations for Tatas,motors , powai, the cam belt broke after a cam bearing jam. Thetruck engine dies with a clunk clunk kinda sound. The check engine light doesnt come on.
Now back in workshop waiting for the AVL . they have no clue why a timing belt of such a vehicle should fail as early as 20000km.
Sarabjeet is fuming .... But only consolation is that its getting done in warranty free of cost. And its not a old type interference type sytem where his valves , head would have gone for a toss with possibly the connecting rod too bent out of line.
Fortune says that many safari's have this problem , and inspite of the retrofitting done to protect the engine damage , it continues to occur.
Talk of compromise on quality of a ten lac worth vehicle.

[4x4addict]

Boy, I am glad that the Safari 2.2 VVtI is not an interference engine otherwise your internals would be cluster of metal now. Breaking of the cam belt was a problem with the earlier 2.0 TCIC engines. However they seem to have sorted that out. I think your's is a freak incident as no one else has had this problem so far.

I don't think it is a design flaw else it would have surfaced in more of the 2.2 VVTIs on this forum. I suspect it is back to the Quality Control issues at the factory where some unlucky owner gets hit with a defective part.

[Prowler]

So it looks like the retrofit has affected the FE by about 2 km or so. I checked the highway mileage and it has come down to 12.X from 14.X

But the engine belts out torque starting from 2000 rpm onwards making it easy to lug her around in 3rd gear even in city.

@highnoon - the engine is possibly protected by the ECU after the timing belt has failed. The ECU monitors so many parameters and when it finds one abnormal value, it simply blocks the engine from firing.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by Prowler

@highnoon - the engine is possibly protected by the ECU after the timing belt has failed. The ECU monitors so many parameters and when it finds one abnormal value, it simply blocks the engine from firing.

Prowler: ECU has got nothing to do with it. Over Head Cam driven engines can be of interference and non interference types. Both can have ECUs. When the timing/cam belt of an interference engine breaks the valves, pistons, connecting rods, and even the crankshaft will get damaged and will be very expensive to repair. For non-interference engines the engine will shut down but no major damage to the internals. Both engine types can have ECU. ECU cannot protect an interference engine from damage if the timing/cam belt breaks.

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by dkamath

PS: jaysmokesleaves, i haven't yet mastered the gear shifting skill that doesn't cut off the AC while driving over ghats. This is my only gripe.

Its not the gear shifting. Its how you release or depress the throttle. Its ultra sensitive. After i figured it out, ive not had problems even while high revving on 4L on slippery uphill stretches and neither on ghats, but now its happening in traffic. May be, i need to 'reset' my right foot, coz trust me TASS wont know whats wrong.

Guys about the noises in a Safari:
Ive heard this slight hissing noise when I turn on the overhead AC since the day I bought the Tata truck but the cooling is still just superb. Then there are various other noises like: When i jump over a speedbreaker at low speed a 'thud' sound from behind the right front tire as if the suspension is loose & going to fall off(this sound too is from a long time). Then while offroading on rocks, all kinds of clanking sounds from the undercarriage, like vessels falling in the kitchen.
Then there is the usual 'Grrr', 'hummm' & that vibrating resonance too. I also hear my engine screaming like a mad cowgirl shouting 'yeeeaaahhh hhaaaaah yyeeaaahhh cuummmonnn yyeeaaahh ride me harder.. dont stop' at 160kph. The engine screaming much too loud with all that resonance for my liking.(Hey dont get any wyld ideas about the sound description )

But then theres a sound in my brain that says, hey, its still working well so why bother, coz the TASS almost always never figures out the source of the sound until its broken. So people, as such ive been enjoying life with my Tata truck for 18 months now. And its super fun flying through most speedbreakers at 80k+ without feeling a thing. And most of all I like the view from the wheel that the huge glasshouse provides as I drive my living room around.

Owning a Safari is like the Discovery channel. As you set out to discover new vistas in your Safari, you discover a lot more new things about yourself as you unravel the mystery of your Safari.

Cheers,
J

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Boy, I am glad that the Safari 2.2 VVtI is not an interference engine otherwise your internals would be cluster of metal now. Breaking of the cam belt was a problem with the earlier 2.0 TCIC engines. However they seem to have sorted that out. I think your's is a freak incident as no one else has had this problem so far.

I don't think it is a design flaw else it would have surfaced in more of the 2.2 VVTIs on this forum. I suspect it is back to the Quality Control issues at the factory where some unlucky owner gets hit with a defective part.

Glad to know that it is a non interference engine. Is there someplace that this is documented as well. Tried searching for it but had no luck.

Manik

[Rahulk76]

Guys,

After the retrofit, many of us have reported FE drop and increase in the coarseness of the engine note.
I am willing here to help for the t-bhp cause. Please PM me only if you are concerned for the drop in FE for more details

Thanks
Rahul

[tsk1979]

The retro fit also involved some changes in timing gear. 2.2 initial batch had an issue with timing belt breaking. All were fixed under warranty.

@Rahul, I have also seen a drop in FE, esp in the city. I get 9-9.5 instead of 10.5-11 earlier
The engine is coarser and frankly speaking, the increase in low end torque is not all that great too.

[Rahulk76]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

The retro fit also involved some changes in timing gear. 2.2 initial batch had an issue with timing belt breaking. All were fixed under warranty.

@Rahul, I have also seen a drop in FE, esp in the city. I get 9-9.5 instead of 10.5-11 earlier
The engine is coarser and frankly speaking, the increase in low end torque is not all that great too.

Tanveer. Pm'ed you across..

[jaysmokesleaves]

Im already getting between 9-11kpl with my driving style. Does it mean that after the retrofit/ecu calibration my FE will drop further???

[jkdas]

jay lol

Then there is the usual 'Grrr', 'hummm' & that vibrating resonance too. I also hear my engine screaming like a mad cowgirl

Dont know how you linked it to a cow girl

Ok, how can I get 90mm EGR for my 2.2 ? The 90mm will help resolve the krrr noise (if my understanding from what Dadu posted after his EGR change).

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Im already getting between 9-11kpl with my driving style. Does it mean that after the retrofit/ecu calibration my FE will drop further???

Aye! And you'll somhow manage to associate it to a fallen woman!

Originally Posted by jkdas

jay lol Dont know how you linked it to a cow girl
...

...intellectual voyages of an unfettered mind?

[smsrini]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

The engine is coarser and frankly speaking, the increase in low end torque is not all that great too.

TSK,

I guess your truck was serviced after your 5k trip. Is this observation after the service ? was the air filter cleaned / changed during the service. I ask because, I experienced similar coarse noise, and no low end torque experienced. After I got the air filter changed, the engine sounds smoother and the grunt has improved. can pull in 3rd gear from 30-40kph speeds.

cheers!
Srini

[Rahulk76]

A big thanks to all who responded back via PM. I have pm'ed you all the details. Let me know if you need any other information.

Apart from the FE, we have found that the note of engine is also coarser. Now I am not really sure, if its due to the new s/w or the airfilter as reported by smsrini. Having said that, Let me know if thats also the case.

..

Originally Posted by Rahulk76

Guys,

After the retrofit, many of us have reported FE drop and increase in the coarseness of the engine note.
I am willing here to help for the t-bhp cause. Please PM me only if you are concerned for the drop in FE for more details

Thanks
Rahul

[maheshmenon]

Was driving from Bangalore to Pondy yesterday night, at Chengam the battery light came "on"., the Idle RPM was erratic between 800-500, but the engine vibration was the same, after some time the RPM read Zero but the engine was still live!!!

After a quick call to the TASS at Pondy, who confirmed that on initial impression it was an alternator failure, assured me that the vehicle can make about 150km trip on the battery power alone, so I chugged along and as I expected no problems and I reached Pondy.

The vehicle is now at TASS, but they say that the alternator warranty is only 1 year, ( my vechile is 20 months old ) so it may have to be repaired at my cost. But they have written to Tata for clarification.

My Doubts :

- Can anyone confirm this one year warranty?? I thought that the warranty was 2 years
- I can vaguely remember the "recall" for the alternator ( my vehicle did not fall in the affected category though); now was this for the alternator or was it for the belt only??
- Is the alternator output used to derive Engine RPM???


Cheers