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Originally Posted by param22k Hey Fellow Mortals
Facing an issue with the 4wd on my Safari and would appreciate help in troubleshooting the same. The 4H & 4L lights remain on while the vehicle is running. I believe this indicates an electrical malfunction in the 4wd system. Got it check at TASS and they said that it is a problem with the motor which had to be replaced. Estimate 15k. Also, I was told that the motor would have to be ordered and would take a month or so to arrive. I decided to get the problem checked outside TASS.
Found a competent electrical technician. He checked the motor and found it to be working fine. Then he checked the 4wd ECM and found that to be working fine as well. Since the motor and ECM have been checked to be working fine separately there seems to be a problem with relay between the two somewhere. Can anyone help with further troubleshooting ideas?
Thanks for your help in advance! |
Quote:
Originally Posted by param22k Hi guys, thanks for the advice!
The 4wd is not engaging and the hubs are not locking (can't hear them engaging). Checked the 4wd dashboard switch as well and that seems to be fine. Any further ideas? |
Quote:
Originally Posted by param22k Hi Guys
Got the 4wd checked again at TASS. They've diagnosed it as a problem with sensor attached to the motor. They say that though the motor is fine, it has to be changed as the sensor comes with the motor only. Any advise on this? |
Hey Guys
Here are the details on how I managed to fix the problem with the 4x4 system on my truck.
It all started with Tini giving me contact information of Gajanan Chitale who works with Divgi Warner (they supply the 4x4 system installed in Safari). Thank you so much for the same again, Tini! I called Gajanan and explained to him the problem I was facing and also what TASS had diagnosed the cause to be. I was pleasantly surprised by his patience, politeness and willingness to help me with my problem (I can't thank Gajanan enough for all his help and support!). He told me to go to the TASS, call him from there and put the service engineer on the phone with him. I went down to TASS and after a lot of requests managed to get the service engineer to talk to Gajanan. He catagorically told Gajanan that the problem was with the shift motor, specifically some broken sensor inside the shift motor which wasn't allowing it to work even though the motor was fine. When Gajanan asked him if he had run the recommended diagnostics to pin point the problem the service engineer said they had a computer program which had diagnosed the problem. Gajanan then told me that there was no such computer program to diagnose problems with the 4x4 system and due to reluctance of the service engineer to listen to him he advised me to run the diagnostics myself.
Gajanan sent me the details by email and I ran the diagnostic which was basically a bulb test on the ECM that gave out the error in binary code. This diagnosed the problem to be with a component called 'Speed Sensor Assembly' and not with the shift motor. This was reaffirmed by getting under the truck and checking the said component with a multi-meter which showed there was no continuity in the component circuit. Gajanan gave me the product code using which I ordered replacement from TASS (Cost Rs 3,060). Incensed at the unprofessional functioning of TASS I decided to replace the component myself and with the help of Gajanan's instructions got under the truck and replaced it. Hoping the problem was solved I turned on ignition and now instead of the continuous 4H & 4L lights I had earlier, now only the 4H light was continuously blinking. I tried to move the truck back and forth and tried switching to 4H and 4L modes. After about 10 minutes got both 4H & 4L lights glowing continuously again. Ran diagnostics on ECM and got error of 'Shift Motor'. Turned the ignition off and back on, and I had the same 4H light continuously blinking. This was puzzling as obviously if there was a problem with the shift motor it should have shown up in the first diagnostic along with the speed sensor error. Gajanan then asked me to wait for a few days till he consulted with his technical team and figured out a solution for me. He even offered to send me a shift motor on returnable basis to check whether that solved the problem before ordering a new one if eventually nothing else worked. That was really nice of him!
While waiting for Gajanan to get back to me I decided to search the internet for information on 4x4 shift motors in general and Borg Warner ones in particular. While searching on the internet I came across an american forum
Ford Explorer and Ranger Enthusiast Forums - Serious Explorations and on it a topic on rebuilding Ford Ranger shift motor (Link:
4X4 Shift Motor Rebuild - Ford Explorer Ranger Enthusiasts "Serious Explorations"®). Since the 4x4 system on the Ford Ranger is also from Borg Warner and seemed physically similar to the one on the Safari I decided to study the topic further. There I found out that if the gear/motor position switch assembly next to the motor is not assembled correctly then the ECM is unable to sense actual position of transfer case lever, gets confused and keeps flashing the 4x4 light(s).
I figured that when TASS opened the shift motor to check it they might have messed up positioning of gear and gear case cover (which doubles up as gear/motor position sensor as well) because they kept telling me that the shift motor was fine and the problem was with a sensor inside the shift motor. I carefully studied the matter given on the topic for a week and finally gathered enough courage to open up the motor position switch assembly last Sunday.
First I removed the entire motor and position switch, and tried to reassemble the gear/switch assembly in my room. This didn't work as I couldn't get position of gear and case cover right (like TASS!). So late in the evening I decided to try and first fix the shift motor and gear case body on the transfer case and then carefully reassemble the gear and gear case cover right onto the transfer case. It was a little difficult to do all this while being under the truck (it was already dark & temperature here is more than 45 Celsius these days!) but I managed to get it right eventually and when my friend turned on the ignition I heard the gear inside the motor position switch move into position. Got into the truck and checked by switching to 4H and 4L, and it was working flawlessly. Awesome!
I must again mention that I can't thank Gajanan enough for all his selfless help and support. Without his diagnostic instructions I would never have been able to figure out the problem with the Speed Sensor (TASS guys showed little interest in running the proper diagnostics) and his motivation made me get under my truck for the first time to try and figure out the problems myself. Three cheers to Gajanan, hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray!
Also, my gratitude again to Tini for putting me in touch with Gajanan.
On the completely opposite side of gratitude, I can't find words to express my disgust for the unprofessional-ism of TASS and the amazingly bad job Tata Motors is doing of providing support for a vehicle that costs nearly 13 Lacs
. Thanks to Gajanan and explorerforum I now probably know more about Safari's 4x4 system than the TASS guys. If TASS had not opened the shift motor and messed up positioning of the gear and gear case cover then the simple change of Speed Sensor would've fixed the 4x4 system. And without Gajanan's help I would've ended up with TASS changing the perfectly good shift motor (which anyways wouldn't have fixed the 4x4 without changing the Speed Sensor) and wasting more than 15k
.
Please note that the shift motor discussed on explorerforum seems to be an older version of the shift motor on the Safari as some of the issues discussed there have been fixed with design changes in the current motor (like fragility of plastic bush, markings to match position of gear case cover with the body), however the basic functioning and components are similar.
I hope the above helps somebody else with their 4x4 problems. And please let me know if I help with any further explanation.
Cheers and TeamBHP rocks!